Best Aasimar subrace for a paladin?

[kenGarff]

I know most of you guys don't like optimization questions but I had to ask for your opinions.
What do you think is(are) the mechanically best Aasimar subrace for a paladin?
I can see most people saying fallen is the best for the likes of the oathbreaker and conquest but what about others?
I am, TBH, rather thrown off by the +WIS and +CON by the protector and scourge, respectively, since you will be left by an odd STR most likely. I personally think for paladin optimization, fallen is going to trump over the other two when only looking at the aasimar subraces.
Either way, what are your thoughts!?

[Rossebay]

The one that flies, so you can fly.

Honestly, that's about it. Unless the flying race is restricted, do the flying one. Greatsword Paladin with wings and bonus damage is pretty incredible. Otherwise, I'd grab the damage aura, just because Paladins do have good healing options, and Aasimar resist their own radiant damage, so it works out nicely. Allows you to get into the fray and dole out a solid amount of AoE damage while focusing down a target. Oath of Vengeance for Hunter's Mark works really well there, too.

[CTurbo]

Mechanically I'd go with Fallen. It's very strong. Scourge is good too though since Con is still important. Heavy Armor Mastery is a great way to balance the Str back out.

But yeah go Fallen.

[Dualswinger]

If you’re playing oath of conquest, a free source of fear from your sub race is hard to pass up

[Treantmonk]

When making a Paladin, the rule I follow is racial bonus to Str of +1 or more.

That leaves Fallen Aasimar. +1 Str, +2 Cha. It's a good fit mechanically for Paladin.

The fear aspect seems to fit nicely with Conquest Paladin if you are planning on a not-so-nice character.

From a roleplaying aspect, I like Redemption Paladin. Fallen Aasimar seeking to redeem him/herself.

Someone mentioned 2H weapons, which is a good choice, though I have another recommendation: Instead take sword and board and the Dual Weilder feat. Use your shield as an improvised off hand weapon. That gives you another attack each round, which, if it hits, means more smites. More smites=more damage for Paladins.

Also, your AC will rock. +2 AC from shield, +1 AC from Dual Weilder.

[hwem]

I guess none of the others’ unique features are good enough to be “better” than the fallen overall. I really like the protector’s flight but that WIS

[kenGarff]

That is unfortunate.
Thematically, I thought Protector Aasimar Ancients paladin was a good idea since protector aasimars are fueled by the powers of good to protect the weak and strike the evil and stand against the darkness....receiving guidance against evil from young age. And oath of the ancients is all about preserving and protecting the light in the grand scheme of cosmic struggle. But it does seem like it's just not THAT good. Thanks by the way for all the help. I appreciate it!

[gjf2a]

That is unfortunate.
Thematically, I thought Protector Aasimar Ancients paladin was a good idea since protector aasimars are fueled by the powers of good to protect the weak and strike the evil and stand against the darkness....receiving guidance against evil from young age. And oath of the ancients is all about preserving and protecting the light in the grand scheme of cosmic struggle. But it does seem like it's just not THAT good. Thanks by the way for all the help. I appreciate it!

I wouldn't draw the same conclusion.

First, a Wisdom bonus is useful for any class. Wisdom saves are necessary to defend against many of the nastiest effects in the game. I'd suggest using the Wisdom bonus to get at least a 12, if not higher. For an Ancients paladin, unlike the Devotion paladin there will not be immunity to charm effects, so that is a serious benefit.

Second, strategic placement of ability scores can ameliorate the effect. Say you are using point buy. Stick 15s in Strength and Charisma, a 12 in Constitution, an 11 in Wisdom, a 10 in Dexterity, and an 8 in Intelligence. With Protector Aasimar modifiers, your scores are now:

ST 15, DX 10, CN 12, IN 8, WS 12, CH 17

Then, at level 4 split your ASI between Strength and Charisma. You now have 16 Strength and 18 Charisma.

In contrast, going Fallen you could use standard array to get 15 in Strength, 14 Charisma, 13 Con, 12 Wis, 10 Dex, and 8 Int, yielding after Fallen modifiers:

ST 16, DX 10, CN 13, IN 8, WS 12, CH 16

Then, at level 4 if you boost Charisma you are practically in the same place. It does have the advantage that you could boost Strength instead (so ST 18, CH 16), but especially for Ancients there are a lot of benefits to getting the Charisma up. It can help with spell DCs for Moonbeam and Ensnaring Strike for example.

So, to conclude, Fallen isn't really THAT much better. Go with your role-playing concept first. You can make the mechanics work well either way.

[CTurbo]

A Protector Paladin would be just fine. Being 1 ASI behind is not the end of the world. I'm playing a Protector Tempest Cleric right now for all the same reasons you just listed. The +2 Cha was completely wasted for my character, but it still works.

Just because Fallen would be "best" doesn't mean any of the others wouldn't still be great.

[kenGarff]

I guess I could go for a protector ancients with

STR = 15
DEX = 10
CON = 13
INT = 9
WIS = 10
CHA = 17

Stats progression: pick up +1 CHA and +1 STR then max CHA to 20
Feats: PAM, sentinel, resilient-CON

odd INT is unfortunate but I think that would be very good mechanically :D
I'd probably use quarterstaff with a shield for some wandering tanky ancients also

[gjf2a]

I guess I could go for a protector ancients with

STR = 15
DEX = 10
CON = 13
INT = 9
WIS = 10
CHA = 17

Stats progression: pick up +1 CHA and +1 STR then max CHA to 20
Feats: PAM, sentinel, resilient-CON

odd INT is unfortunate but I think that would be very good mechanically :D
I'd probably use quarterstaff with a shield for some wandering tanky ancients also

I think you'll find that to be a playable and enjoyable character!

[CTurbo]

I guess I could go for a protector ancients with

STR = 15
DEX = 10
CON = 13
INT = 9
WIS = 10
CHA = 17

Stats progression: pick up +1 CHA and +1 STR then max CHA to 20
Feats: PAM, sentinel, resilient-CON

odd INT is unfortunate but I think that would be very good mechanically :D
I'd probably use quarterstaff with a shield for some wandering tanky ancients also

You could probably settle for 16 Cha instead of 17 and bump Int to 10 and Con to 14.

I'd rather have 14 Con, 10 Int, and 16 Cha then 13 Con, 9 Int, and 17 Cha

[Eriol]

Second, strategic placement of ability scores can ameliorate the effect. Say you are using point buy. Stick 15s in Strength and Charisma, a 12 in Constitution, an 11 in Wisdom, a 10 in Dexterity, and an 8 in Intelligence. With Protector Aasimar modifiers, your scores are now:

ST 15, DX 10, CN 12, IN 8, WS 12, CH 17

Then, at level 4 split your ASI between Strength and Charisma. You now have 16 Strength and 18 Charisma.
Same race, different point buy, but still odd numbers on str and cha, I'm planning to take heavy armour master, and Inspiring Leader (at 8) to bring my stats up. Then I get two genuinely useful feats (depends for the first, ALWAYS for the 2nd) and my stats are the same. Perhaps an ASI behind, but the temp HP to the whole group is always great, and being even more tank-y for lots of small mobs is useful in many situations. Devotion Paladin w/ Sword & Board, it makes sense to me.

But what you say is fine too, and gets you out of half-stat hell earlier no doubt.

[Asmotherion]

Quite frankly, there is none. All Aasimar are good for Paladin.

Get a concept, and optimise around it.

A Fallen Aasimar of Conquest could be very solid.

So could a Protector Hexblade/Vengence.

And I'm just giving some random examples here.

Make a story for your Character, and optimise around it. 5e is hard to mess up either way.

PS: It's not really that we don't like optimisation questions. It's that we like to have a character concept to work with :P Optimisation is an art form

[gjf2a]

Same race, different point buy, but still odd numbers on str and cha, I'm planning to take heavy armour master, and Inspiring Leader (at 8) to bring my stats up. Then I get two genuinely useful feats (depends for the first, ALWAYS for the 2nd) and my stats are the same. Perhaps an ASI behind, but the temp HP to the whole group is always great, and being even more tank-y for lots of small mobs is useful in many situations. Devotion Paladin w/ Sword & Board, it makes sense to me.

That's also a really cool concept! I love seeing examples like this of builds that escape the trap of "if I don't have a +3 attack-stat bonus at first level, it's not a good build."

[Treantmonk]

That is unfortunate.
Thematically, I thought Protector Aasimar Ancients paladin was a good idea since protector aasimars are fueled by the powers of good to protect the weak and strike the evil and stand against the darkness....receiving guidance against evil from young age. And oath of the ancients is all about preserving and protecting the light in the grand scheme of cosmic struggle. But it does seem like it's just not THAT good. Thanks by the way for all the help. I appreciate it!

I have some more advice.

If you have your heart set on a specific subrace, don't ask an optimizer, "Which subrace makes the best Paladin?" and then decide to dump the character you wanted because we didn't provide the answer you were looking for.

Instead ask, "Hey optimizers, I want to play a Paladin, and I want it to be a Protection Aasimar. How would I make this effective?"

Then we know the parameters. No Fallen Aasimar. No problem. This can totally work fine.

Someone already mentioned Str 16/Cha 18 at level 4. I think that's a strong option, especially with a devotion paladin, as they get the bigger bonus to their weapon. There is also the Hexblade dip, though it's maybe too overdone, that makes Cha your primary stat instead of Str.

This is 5e. You can make surprisingly effective builds out of the strangest of combinations. I recently helped a friend with her Dwarven Warlock/Cleric "witch" build, and it works very well. Aasimar Paladin is easy, regardless the subrace.

[hwem]

Excuse my ignorance but would protector aasimar and ancients paladin really go well together thematically?
Isn't protector aasimar more like a devotion-paladin race (divine and justice) while ancients paladin, though aligned with the goods, is more "nature" themed? I mean...for instance, during Elder Champion transformation, what would an aasimar change into?

[Eriol]

That's also a really cool concept! I love seeing examples like this of builds that escape the trap of "if I don't have a +3 attack-stat bonus at first level, it's not a good build."
For me the roleplaying was more important than the mechanics (it just fit, and flight is cool too). Thought of scourge, but I wanted wings, and not hurting my allies with my aura. And really, I'll still get 18 (or 20) STR by final level, and if I happen to play an adventure with Gauntlets of Giant Strength, I'm at 19 and may have flexibility for other ASIs, like more CHA or CON. I'm not "stuck" in maxing things I already have.

Thanks for your comments though. I liked where you were going too.

[gjf2a]

Excuse my ignorance but would protector aasimar and ancients paladin really go well together thematically?
Isn't protector aasimar more like a devotion-paladin race (divine and justice) while ancients paladin, though aligned with the goods, is more "nature" themed? I mean...for instance, during Elder Champion transformation, what would an aasimar change into?

There are a couple of ways to think about this.

First, since there are no class/subclass/race restrictions in D&D5e, players are always encouraged to think through how to make a particular combination work thematically.

Second, the Oath of the Ancients is not fundamentally about nature. Let's review the tenets:


Kindle the Light. Through your acts of mercy, kindness, and forgiveness, kindle the light of hope in the world, beating back despair.

Shelter the Light. Where there is good, beauty, love, and laughter in the world, stand against the wickedness that would swallow it. Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren.

Preserve Your Own Light. Delight in song and laughter, in beauty and art. If you allow the light to die in your own heart, you can’t preserve it in the world.

Be the Light. Be a glorious beacon for all who live in despair. Let the light of your joy and courage shine forth in all your deeds.


The nature theme, as I interpret it, relates to how the natural world expresses the light and hope that is fundamental to goodness. "Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren." But the fundamental image and motif is of the Light. A Protector Aasimar incarnates this beautifully.

I'm sure that a Protector Elder Champion could manifest a visage that put together both the traditions of the Oath as well as its own nature. A tree-like humanoid with feathered wings? Why not?

[kenGarff]

Yeah. Thematically, I was thinking protector aasimar fits ancients just as well as it does devotion. Heck, since they are all about protecting the light...maybe ancients fits protector aasimar better than devotion does. Either way, I'll probably go with this. I am actually thinking about changing forms (radiant soul and elder champion if it ever comes to that) to an angelic form: luminous halo and a pair of typical angelic wings for radiant soul. Then add one more pair of tree bark-like wings and and vines around the halo.

[gjf2a]

I am actually thinking about changing forms (radiant soul and elder champion if it ever comes to that) to an angelic form: luminous halo and a pair of typical angelic wings for radiant soul. Then add one more pair of tree bark-like wings and and vines around the halo.

Sounds fantastic!

[hwem]

There are a couple of ways to think about this.

First, since there are no class/subclass/race restrictions in D&D5e, players are always encouraged to think through how to make a particular combination work thematically.

Second, the Oath of the Ancients is not fundamentally about nature. Let's review the tenets:


The nature theme, as I interpret it, relates to how the natural world expresses the light and hope that is fundamental to goodness. "Where life flourishes, stand against the forces that would render it barren." But the fundamental image and motif is of the Light. A Protector Aasimar incarnates this beautifully.

I'm sure that a Protector Elder Champion could manifest a visage that put together both the traditions of the Oath as well as its own nature. A tree-like humanoid with feathered wings? Why not?

That sounds about right. Thanks.

[igor140]

I vote for making the Paladin that fits your ideal. I recently made a Paladin who watched his friends and family murdered in front of him as a child... so he grew up bitter and vicious. He's not evil, and he will help the innocent, but he plans to exact revenge on the people that burned his home town, and he is driven by vengeance and rage. He is kind (or at least respectful) to his allies and the innocent, but when it comes to his enemies, he will murder the women and children, then salt the earth.

That being his personality, I went with Oath of Conquest and Scourge Aasimar.

Also, I may be wrong about this, but I thought wings only worked if you were wearing light or medium armor.

[gjf2a]

Also, I may be wrong about this, but I thought wings only worked if you were wearing light or medium armor.

It depends on the source of the wings. For an aarakocra, for example, only light armor is allowed. For a Protector Aasimar, the wings appear to be more for looks than for function, the flight itself essentially magical, so there is no armor restriction. It is akin to the Avenging Angel capstone power of the Vengeance Paladin.