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Thoughtbot360
2007-09-12, 06:40 PM
I posted this on the PC stupidity stories thread: (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3112380&postcount=816)

What did would you have done if you were the DM in that situation?

Kurald Galain
2007-09-12, 07:05 PM
Since he appears to be a novice player, I think I would have plainly stated at some points that "you think that's not such a good idea, because..." or "are you sure you want to do that...", especially if the character had decent intelligence.

Can a beginning character actually DP through a wall? Depending on his strength, I'm not sure if I would have let him do that. If he did, it would likely cause some structural failure, alert a bunch of people, and set off the burglary, fire, and earthquake alarms. It ranks pretty high on my "dumb idea" scale. Instead, I would probably have Samson burst through the door and fight him (this being a Street Fighter RPG, after all).

I'm not at all opposed to arresting player characters, or otherwise bringing the house down on them if they do outrageously stupid stuff - it's not the end of the world or character, especially if they have a sensei that can bail them out.

I think allowing him to climb the dark side anyway, at a penalty, is a good ruling, as is getting the sensei to cause a commotion.

kemmotar
2007-09-12, 09:29 PM
Imo, if you just had the maid give a description of the "rapist"to the guards, all the guards would be alerted and a pretty quick arrest would've been made...nothing serious, just a couple of hours and then allow him to disguise himself and try again after you talk to him about the choices he made...

Also...if your nephew was young and a novice player a more or less "kill dire rats in the sewers" street fighter equivalent quest might've been a bit easier on the both of you...After he gets used to it and you slowly introfuce other elements of the game he can do more complicated quests...

As it was mentioned before, dumb ideas should be paid for...and grabbing the maid and locking her in a closet wasn't exactly creative or subtle...

Irreverent Fool
2007-09-13, 10:15 AM
Since he appears to be a novice player, I think I would have plainly stated at some points that "you think that's not such a good idea, because..." or "are you sure you want to do that...", especially if the character had decent intelligence.

I don't generally agree with 'you think that's not a good idea...' Now, 'make an intelligence check' and 'Okay, Bojack here realizes that if he does this, it's likely that this may happen. Do you still want to go for it?' Gives the player a little more freedom. Sorry, it's semantics, I know, but it can make all the difference.


Can a beginning character actually DP through a wall? Depending on his strength, I'm not sure if I would have let him do that. If he did, it would likely cause some structural failure, alert a bunch of people, and set off the burglary, fire, and earthquake alarms. It ranks pretty high on my "dumb idea" scale. Instead, I would probably have Samson burst through the door and fight him (this being a Street Fighter RPG, after all).

Interior walls in large hotel/office buildings are often quite flimsy. A person with above-average strength probably wouldn't have much trouble going through a couple panels of drywall. Of course, Samson bashing the door in and demanding a face-off would have been some nice story-driven railroading and kept the action going.

As for the arresting bit, I feel characters should always suffer the logical consequences for their actions. Of course you want to gloss over jail-time with a simple description. Role-playing through a whole encounter of getting lugged off, put in a cell, given a phone call, and all that is just no fun. "You spend a couple of nights/weeks/months bored out of your skull in the local jail. There's nobody to talk to, the food's terrible, and the walls are made out of solid cement which is just too hard for you to bust out of. Using your one phone call, you ring your sensei who bails you out and tells you..."

Ivius
2007-09-13, 04:43 PM
I don't think I've ever heard of a street fighter RPG. I can't find anything about it, would you mind explaining?

Thoughtbot360
2007-09-13, 05:28 PM
I don't think I've ever heard of a street fighter RPG. I can't find anything about it, would you mind explaining?

Well, there is this one site where I learned about it......... (http://www.mu.ranter.net/rpg/sfstg.html)

and then there's the article Mu made that explains it in more detail. (http://www.mu.ranter.net/rpg/sfarticle.html)

And if you haven't heard about it, don't be surprised: its out of print.

You can probably get your hands on a copy on Amazon.com, if you're lucky.

Dervag
2007-09-13, 05:36 PM
Personally, I would be amused by the entire incident, I suspect.


Can a beginning character actually DP through a wall? Depending on his strength, I'm not sure if I would have let him do that. If he did, it would likely cause some structural failure, alert a bunch of people, and set off the burglary, fire, and earthquake alarms. It ranks pretty high on my "dumb idea" scale. Instead, I would probably have Samson burst through the door and fight him (this being a Street Fighter RPG, after all).If Bojack could punch through a wall, then surely Samson could have punched through a door to reach Bojack before Bojack escaped by punching through a wall. Or if Samson could not punch through a door, then he was a weakling compared to Bojack, and Bojack was a fool for not simply beating the crud out of him.


Interior walls in large hotel/office buildings are often quite flimsy. A person with above-average strength probably wouldn't have much trouble going through a couple panels of drywall.Wasn't he punching through an exterior wall of the building?

Irreverent Fool
2007-09-13, 06:35 PM
Wasn't he punching through an exterior wall of the building?

Re-reading it, yes. Yes he was. I don't suppose I would have allowed a beginning character to perform that kind of feat unless it's generally something a beginning character in this game can do or his strength score was incredible.

I guess that's what happens when I automatically assume everyone else is wrong. :tongue:

Snapdragon
2007-09-13, 07:30 PM
1. Ask yourself why you're playing. If you're so revolted by the character (genre, system, whatever) he created, play checkers. Throw the ball around, go fishin', ride dirt bikes, see a movie, there's lots of other stuff to do.

2. How is the manager (the hook) going to get back in contact with the hero? Cell phone? Why would he stay put somewhere where the hero knows where he is? Maybe the 'Hero' is about to sell him out to his old boss. Have the manager (at a hotel across town) swap numbers with the hero.

3. This is an office building? With a lobby where they give out keys to people who walk in off the street? No, it's a hotel, with an accountant's office and at least one boxing gym upstairs inside. Re-write this section so it sucks less.

4. The screaming maid kidnapping thing is pretty cute.

5. Don't give a die roll significant input to the course of the story y'all are telling. I don't care what the dice say. If I need him to climb the side of the building, that's where he is (you're not setting him up, are you?).

6. Why not put a window in the accountant's office? Or, if you're in it for the dramatic fight sequence, have Samson get through the barricade before the hero gets through the wall.

7. Get the Hero a PI's license (or bounty hunter). They're allowed to do all kinds of otherwise illegal stuff if they have someone like the hook to back them up in court.

8. Remember, you're doing this for fun, and so is he. Tell an entertaining story together. Ignore rules/logic/common sense that says otherwise.

Thoughtbot360
2007-09-14, 02:50 AM
Ok, I see I've accumulated a lot of questions here, but I hope to answer them all by way of responding to Snapdragon.


1. Ask yourself why you're playing. If you're so revolted by the character (genre, system, whatever) he created, play checkers. Throw the ball around, go fishin', ride dirt bikes, see a movie, there's lots of other stuff to do.

Well, I just got the book system recently, and at the time he was interested in D&D and table top role playing games. I thought I could try it out while he was visiting.


2. How is the manager (the hook) going to get back in contact with the hero? Cell phone? Why would he stay put somewhere where the hero knows where he is? Maybe the 'Hero' is about to sell him out to his old boss. Have the manager (at a hotel across town) swap numbers with the hero.

Well, the hook just had his life saved by Bojack and he actually has no where else to turn without those documents from his office. The presupposition is that the Weasal just trusts the players enough even though he just met them.


3. This is an office building? With a lobby where they give out keys to people who walk in off the street? No, it's a hotel, with an accountant's office and at least one boxing gym upstairs inside. Re-write this section so it sucks less.

The whole scenario sucked. And I didn't have much time to edit it, and it was kind of a hopeless cause. But yes. Apparently Mr. Ray rented out a floor where he put two offices and a boxing gym(where Balrog trained before moving to a larger gym when he joined Shadoloo, and now Samson is using the gym to practice) atop some hotel (which I guess he owns). Now, if I was writing a starting scenario to introduce this system it would be something like this:

1) The players are already friends or acquaintances that have found a manager (and Teachers/methods of self-teaching so they can fight worth ****) and formed a team to fight in the exciting world of illegal underground rules-light fist fighting for money and fame (even though none of their fans can say in public that they know you or who you are.) However, they all (or at least enough of the team to coerce the rest to join in) have some kind of serious money problem (or made a vow to a friend injured by the cheating local champ to beat him) for this particular fight they're doing, so they are discouraged from backing out (the problem depends on the character and perhaps should be sorted out by the GM and the player beforehand). All this is to set the mood and the tone.

2) Before the big fight, some goons try to bribe them (with insufficient funds to take care of their debts/ransom/medical bills for the operation to cure their sick grandma/etc.) to blow the fight and make threats if they they don't comply ("Our employer has placed lots of money on this fight, and would be rather......displeased were you not to play ball). The players are expected to refuse and then the goons attack, get beat down, and slink off saying "this isn't over." This is to send some weakling cannon fodder NPCs at them to get used to the battle system.

3) They fight a one-on-one with the opponent's team in the arena. Then to wrap it up, have it revealed that the goon's boss (or his personal bodyguard) is really a powerful (strong enough to take on the whole team and expect a fighting chance to win) Shadoloo fighter and he has stolen the prize money to get the PCs to follow him to a fighting arena of his own design (AKA into a trap.) This is the climax of the scenario, nothing else is required. Just have the crime boss snivel a lot when he losses.

But I didn't write the opening scenario and I didn't think the one above up until recently.


4. The screaming maid kidnapping thing is pretty cute.

*holds head in hands* Sweet Sune, make the hurting stop............*snicker*....ha ha, yeah it was, wasn't it?

:belkar: : "Treasure Type O" ...heh heh heh.


5. Don't give a die roll significant input to the course of the story y'all are telling. I don't care what the dice say. If I need him to climb the side of the building, that's where he is (you're not setting him up, are you?).


No, I'm not setting him up, but see, I was playing with a map (copied from the book) and the direction the wall he was breaking down was different from the direction he came in. He also was in a different office (I might not have made that clear), and their were no windows.


6. Why not put a window in the accountant's office? Or, if you're in it for the dramatic fight sequence, have Samson get through the barricade before the hero gets through the wall.

Again, we were using a map, no windows. I can't recall why I didn't just have Samson break down the door (he was almost there), but I think it had to do with the fact that I was crying from laughter too much to do a serious fight scene.



7. Get the Hero a PI's license (or bounty hunter). They're allowed to do all kinds of otherwise illegal stuff if they have someone like the hook to back them up in court.

They can do that....provided they get deep into the campaign to join Interpool. (http://www.mecha.com/~conkle/sfighter/interpol.html)


8. Remember, you're doing this for fun, and so is he. Tell an entertaining story together. Ignore rules/logic/common sense that says otherwise.

We did. But it was so ridiculous it feels like I failed somehow.....

Thoughtbot360
2007-09-14, 01:29 PM
There is anything I would throw up here:

Technically, a Street Fighter: the Storytelling game doesn't have specific rules on breaking through a wall. You improvise mostly every skill roll difficulty (add the attribute like Strength or Intelligence to the most relevant skill roll like say, Intimidate or Style Lore, and see how the player rolls) and he decided that he wanted to spend his precious willpower (Magic points for special attacks like the Dragon Punch or Flash Kick, there is also Chi, which powers Hadoken fireballs and Sonic booms, and you have a limited amount of both, like a wizard's spells-per-day) on breaking down the wall instead of ever possibly getting into a position where he had to fight Samson, where he could be spending his limited Dragon punches the way they were meant to be used.

So, the dice didn't "say" anything. He didn't roll a critical hit (actually impossible in SF:STG) or anything, I lowered the bar rather than put up with his antics anymore. So, yes I allowed this and lowered his Glory rating for these cowardly acts. Also, his Honor rating for locking up the maid (well, I didn't really, but I should have.)

dyslexicfaser
2007-09-14, 02:40 PM
I know nothing about Streetfighter the tabletop, but at least the Shoryuken'ing a wall sounds vastly entertaining.

The concept of this guy who has practiced Shotokan karate - one of the most powerful and lethal karate styles known to man - for years, honing his body into a deadly weapon, only to use all that accumulated might to bust down a wall... hilarious.

And look on the bright side - at least he didn't KO the maid.

Snapdragon
2007-09-14, 03:39 PM
The manager thing is just a technique thing. If the hero needs to know something about the layout of the building (where the office is, how to get in), he's the easiest source (instead of calling Sensei, who may not be in the city).
My other point is that maps, dice, even rule systems are all the same thing, aids to the storytelling process. Use them as long as they are useful. When they interfere, it's time to chuck them. Maybe there was a motel sign behind the building (whatever the scenario said). Maybe it flickers out just as a few thugs rush into the alley to confront the hero. He gets a win, you get a look at the system. Just as a piece of advice, intro scenarios shouldn't feature an even odds battle for the Hero (or even close to it).

Thoughtbot360
2007-09-14, 04:27 PM
The manager thing is just a technique thing. If the hero needs to know something about the layout of the building (where the office is, how to get in), he's the easiest source (instead of calling Sensei, who may not be in the city).
My other point is that maps, dice, even rule systems are all the same thing, aids to the storytelling process. Use them as long as they are useful. When they interfere, it's time to chuck them. Maybe there was a motel sign behind the building (whatever the scenario said). Maybe it flickers out just as a few thugs rush into the alley to confront the hero. He gets a win, you get a look at the system. Just as a piece of advice, intro scenarios shouldn't feature an even odds battle for the Hero (or even close to it).

Actually, his Sensei was in the city, so that wasn't a problem. Also, I already had the hook explain the layout of the hotel, but expected Bojack to figure out how to get the key. As for the whole "which side of the building thing" we both didn't plan that far ahead, but it was an important factor because of the brightly lit pre-tournament show going on in front of the hotel. (Yes, I know that its stupid for them to hold or even advertise a fundamentally illegal Street fighting tournament in front of a Vegas Hotel, but as I said before, the whole scenario sucked.)


Just as a piece of advice, intro scenarios shouldn't feature an even odds battle for the Hero (or even close to it).

I'm not sure which scenario you are talking about: my hypothetical scenario or the books crappy one with the hotel-office. But I can say that what I was trying to do with my scenario plan was introduce the players to the world of Street Fighter and establish some norms. You compete with other Street Fighters as a "living" but Shadoloo keeps missing with your life, so I threw in a side-plot with the goons and the after-tournament battle with the Shadoloo fighter. I was worried that I might have to nerf everything in the adventure, but its important to take heed of two little rules in Street Fighter: You fully heal in 15 minutes of downtime, and you roll Honor to regain some Chi and Willpower, so by the time the party has started the closing fight, they are likely to be relatively recharged. Now, because the Shadoloo criminal is taking on potentially 3-5 players at once, it would make sense for him to be at least a weeeeettle bit strong and professional, just so he can think he's a bad enough dude to take on a team of rookie fighters by himself (with a number of traps and dirty tricks thrown in proportional to the number of players fighting him.) But yeah, it was my plan to have the stakes of these fights be higher than the actually difficulty, so the players can get used to the system while still enjoying a certain amount of drama.

In fact, I could take the name of the crappy scenario in the book (High Stakes) and give it to the one I thought up. The name is kind of appropriate for the one thats actually in the book because its High Stakes for the accountant, and it exposes Mr. Ray's embezzling and threatens to expose some of Shadoloo activities, but other than that, its pretty average stakes.

Thoughtbot360
2007-09-16, 04:58 PM
Last thread bump before I let the subject drop.