D&D Powers in the real world: Level 20 Barbarian

[Segev]

Thanks to everybody who participated (or is still participating!) in the Fighter (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?565925-D-amp-D-Powers-in-the-real-world-Level-20-Fighter) version of this thread! As promised, I'm opening up a discussion of a different class. Same premise: Tomorrow morning, you wake up and discover that you are a level 20 Barbarian from D&D (3.5 or PF), with your WBL pre-spent on "appropriate" gear for your life and your new class.

To clarify some intentions: you're still you, knowing all you knew, and have all the build resources of a level 20 Barbarian as if you'd designed it. The only real restriction is, please don't spend WBL to fake being a different class. This still is about how being a level 20 Barbarian affects your life.

(Whether you want to consider illiteracy overwritten by spending 2 sp, being you and thus literate, or actually want to consider keeping the "class feature," I leave up to you. ...that'd actually be an interesting optimization challenge: can "illiteracy" be made useful? Not really the point of this thread, though.)

Anyway, once again, optimize to your hearts' content, within the limits of "you're a Barbarian, not a WBL-mancer." Are the class features of the Barbarian sufficiently different from the bare-bones bonus feats of Fighter to make this a more interesting change? Does this change your life more or differently than becoming a level 20 Fighter? Would you pursue the same life-changing goals/professions?

[PunBlake]

This is easier/better than Fighter IMO. More skill ranks, and with the addition of Skilled City Dweller (Handle Animal -> Sense Motive), we can be the wise politician, lawyer, or judge pretty easily (max Sense Motive in class, Education for appropriate Knowledge skills), while also being a top-class weightlifter or competitor in the Highland Games (rage, Endurance). Astronaut is also still a potential career.

In my head, a barbarian politician/lawyer/judge is like President Camacho in Idiocracy. :smallwink:

[Bronk]

(Whether you want to consider illiteracy overwritten by spending 2 sp, being you and thus literate, or actually want to consider keeping the "class feature," I leave up to you. ...that'd actually be an interesting optimization challenge: can "illiteracy" be made useful? Not really the point of this thread, though.)

I would imagine you'd need to keep your native literacy or else be completely cut off from modern life. Besides, how else would you get a Conan the Librarian? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHoHaAYHq8

[BowStreetRunner]

I would imagine you'd need to keep your native literacy or else be completely cut off from modern life. Besides, how else would you get a Conan the Librarian? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZHoHaAYHq8Yep. First 2 skill points I spend in the modern world - learn to read and write.

By the way, what skill covers computer coding? Barbarian Hacker should be a thing, really!

[Nifft]

It was fun to have one thoughtlessly contrarian anti-Wizard thread (the Fighter 20 thread).

But the problems brought up in that thread haven't been addressed, so this seems doomed to be a similarly thoughtless exercise, with similar results.

Specifically: WBL is amazing. Having 20 HD worth of HP is amazing. Having 20 HD worth of skill points is pretty great, with an option on amazing. The class itself is vastly overshadowed by all the non-class perks you'd get.

I mentioned over in the other thread some thoughts on how to make these comparisons more valid, specifically by extracting all the non-class benefits and then afterwards talking about how each class adds value above the baseline -- but I guess we're going with the copy-paste instead. Saves the OP some effort, right?

[Segev]

It was fun to have one thoughtlessly contrarian anti-Wizard thread (the Fighter 20 thread).

But the problems brought up in that thread haven't been addressed, so this seems doomed to be a similarly thoughtless exercise, with similar results.

Specifically: WBL is amazing. Having 20 HD worth of HP is amazing. Having 20 HD worth of skill points is pretty great, with an option on amazing. The class itself is vastly overshadowed by all the non-class perks you'd get.

I mentioned over in the other thread some thoughts on how to make these comparisons more valid, specifically by extracting all the non-class benefits and then afterwards talking about how each class adds value above the baseline -- but I guess we're going with the copy-paste instead. Saves the OP some effort, right?

You're free to start your own discussion thread framed how you'd prefer. My goal here is to examine the non-caster classes and what they offer. WBL is a bit of an afterthought, but can't be ignored completely.

Besides, starting with Fighter more or less does what you suggested, since all it brings to the table as class features are feats (before somebody remembered ACFs are a thing).

I mean, "What if you had level 20 WBL and exclusive access to the magic item mart?" is a valid thread topic. It just isn't what I'm looking to explore, here.


The number of social and cerebral approaches people are suggesting with the Barbarian does highlight the focus of modern society, especially since Rage is a uniquely Barbarian class feature that amps up physical prowess, but does nothing for those other pursuits.

If you're going politician, though, be careful about using Rage at the wrong time. I think Howard Dean's primal scream was probably the death knell of his career. Though almost-literally-frothing rage did seem to work well for Hitler, weirdly enough.

[rmnimoc]

I'd argue that this is significantly different than the fighter for one major reason: DR. The already existing DR of the barbarian is enough to make it worth it to take the feat 'Roll With It' a few times. At level 20 I could have DR 17/- and a slotless Ring of Regeneration, making me basically straight up immune to any man-portable weapon that isn't a rocket launcher.

I'd be one hell of a mercenary.

[Telonius]

Careful on the politics.

Barbarian 20? I'd probably take the vanilla version. Damage Reduction means that I'm going to be much more resilient to anything I'm likely to encounter. With Rage, I'd probably be able to set some Olympic records for weightlifting or other track and field events (much more my style and speed than team sports).


Hmm, max ranks in Survival means that I'll be the most accurate meteorologist in the world. Handle Animal? Vegas here I come. :smallbiggrin:

[Bronk]

Trap Sense could get me out of stubbing my toes. Maybe even petting a cat that I didn't realize didn't want to be pet!

I'd worry about cutting myself while doing the dishes or slicing up a head of lettuce though. I might need all that extra DR from the previously mentioned 'Roll With It' feat just to avoid slicing my own fingers off with my full on DnD damage. I might have to invest in oversized safety scissors in order to get anything done! Or, I guess, spend a lot of my WBL on a ring of regeneration...

Mighty Rage / Tireless Rage would be ideal for moving furniture, helping others move furniture... basically, anything having to do with moving. Rock and stump removal? Helping people in a crashed up car...

The Roof-Dweller ACF would be great for getting up there and fixing my own roof...

Fast Movement might have been great back when I was running, but now trading it out for the Unholy Fury ACF - a smite attack against any non CE adversary, which is most things in the real world - would be pretty neat. Imagine a rage attack with that ACF as a finger flick against a mosquito? Worth it!

Whoa, lose Uncanny Dodge to take the View Spirit World ACF and gain darkvision, even for a little while? Nice. Now I can fool the mice in my basement!

[Troacctid]

The main question will be which ACF to trade Rage for, because frothing berserker fury is not something I need in my life. I think the best replacement is actually Favored Enemy. Human, Animal, and Vermin (and maaaybe Construct) covers everything you're going to encounter on Earth, I think. The bonus is always on and applies to Bluff, Sense Motive, Survival, Spot, and Listen checks in addition to damage. I'll definitely take +10 to those please and thank you.

I'd also use the City Brawler and Unshakable variants from Dragon #349 to get Improved Unarmed Strike (in exchange for normal proficiencies) and immunity to fear (in exchange for Improved Uncanny Dodge).

EDIT: I want to get rid of trap sense too. I think the best trade for it is Eagle Totem for the universal bonus to reflexes. It also trades out some movement speed for some perception, which is acceptable. Oh, and I'd use Skilled City-Dweller to trade Survival for Sense Motive, because reading people seems way more useful than tracking them, especially since I already have +10 from Favored Enemy. I'd basically be an empath.


You're free to start your own discussion thread framed how you'd prefer. My goal here is to examine the non-caster classes and what they offer. WBL is a bit of an afterthought, but can't be ignored completely.
On the contrary, it can totally be ignored completely. Case in point!

[PunBlake]

If you're going politician, though, be careful about using Rage at the wrong time.
Since we're not using Frenzied Berserker or anything, I don't think there's much to worry about; you have more control over your rage as a barbarian than the Hulk. Also, DR (and buffing it with feats) would make you highly resistant to assassination. You need that if you're using Intimidate as your persuasion skill of choice.

Fighter didn't really have enough skill ranks to be a politician. Gather Info*, Sense Motive*, and Intimidate as class skills works pretty well (and buffing this with Favored Enemy (Humanoid Human) instead of having Rage makes things better). Even with 10 Int, you can max these 3 and (via Education) a knowledge to be a competent (strong-man) politician. Whether using Intimidate as a means to get things done is "good" a separate question.

* = Skilled City Dweller

[Seharvepernfan]

Worse than a fighter, IMO. Modern weapons are so destructive, you couldn't quite pull off the juggernaut aspect as well as in a fantasy world. I'd still focus on guns/dexterity. I have more skill points and I'm much harder to kill, which is nice, and I'm faster on the battlefield, but I'd rather have the feats.

[Goaty14]

Worse than a fighter, IMO. Modern weapons are so destructive, you couldn't quite pull off the juggernaut aspect as well as in a fantasy world. I'd still focus on guns/dexterity. I have more skill points and I'm much harder to kill, which is nice, and I'm faster on the battlefield, but I'd rather have the feats.

I disagree with this. You could totally charge into machine gun fire provided you optimize for it, and probably screw over most vehicles that come within range.

[Peat]

The PF Barbarian has native in-class flying on big dragon wings. I've no idea what on earth I'd use that for, but I'm pretty sure I'd break YouTube the first time I used that in public.

[Azoth]

The PF Barbarian can definitely pick up some interesting abilities. I'd definitely snag Invulnerable + Urban Rager for Archetypes. Natural DR10/- the ability to use mental skills while raging, and I can shift my rage stat bonuses between Str/Dex/Con.

Geminite Invoker is cool for letting you change totems every time you rage. That gives alot of flexibility in terms of abilities you can use.

Mooncursed makes you a lycanthrope when you rage. Gotta be some use in turning into an animal or hybrid form from time to time.

Groundbreaker rage power would make you great at demolition. Suddenly break up a 20' radius of ground regardless of material or weapon used. Worst case...become an anime character punching craters into the ground.

If you have a mount (via archetype or feats) you can share your rage powers with it. So if one guy flying on magic dragon wings will break the internet...what will another guy and his 10ft tall wolf performing a Blue Angel's routine do to the internet?

[Seharvepernfan]

I disagree with this. You could totally charge into machine gun fire provided you optimize for it, and probably screw over most vehicles that come within range.

I meant bombs, lasers, rail guns, chemical weapons, radiation, etc. All it would take is one airborne vehicle and a missile. Hell, even a .50 cal minigun would do it.

[rmnimoc]

Worse than a fighter, IMO. Modern weapons are so destructive, you couldn't quite pull off the juggernaut aspect as well as in a fantasy world. I'd still focus on guns/dexterity. I have more skill points and I'm much harder to kill, which is nice, and I'm faster on the battlefield, but I'd rather have the feats.

If you use your feats on toughness and roll with it, you'll have enough DR to shrug off most firearms. For an example, in d20 modern, an AK-47 does 2d8+1. Firearms are dangerous, but ordinary people survive being shot all the time. As a level 20 barbarian, you're about as tough as a tank. Unlike a fighter though, you can get plinked by small arms fire all day with no real problem. If you've got something to boost your reflex saves and evasion, then your survivability goes through the roof, since the only weapons that can reliably do real damage to you give reflex saves since they're basically all explosives. You can arguably juggernaut even better than in most D&D worlds, since there's no magic and whatever gods are here aren't fans of taking direct action.
Edit:Just saw your clarification. Good news is, we have decent equivalents to everything you're talking about. Chemical weapons aren't a huge deal, since level 20 barbarians can't really fail CON saves. Lasers are only a threat to most things because most things (including barbarians) usually don't have resistance to fire damage. That said, there no is laser both powerful enough to threaten a barbarian and portable enough to aim at a barbarian. Unless you stand there and let them, but then that's your fault. As I showed in the fighter thread, it takes a pretty big bomb to threaten you. Radiation is obviously still an issue, but not half as big of one as you might initially think since no one is stupid enough to have built a weapon that uses it as anything but a byproduct. Weapons that do make it as a byproduct... well, you wouldn't survive them anyway. That's fine though, because no one is going to start world war three to kill a single person, no matter how durable you are. As for .50s, you can expect to take between 0 and 10 damage a hit with DR 17/-. Plenty of items exist that'd help with that though, and you'd survive long enough to use them. Also, aircraft that aren't gunships have a hell of a time hitting a man sized object without making it the kind of thing that provokes a reflex save, so you're probably fine there. As for missiles, most aircraft missiles are only just strong enough to take out a tank. With just pure HP you're as durable as a tank. If you've got evasion and a high reflex save (you should be aiming to beat DC20 consistently, since DC18 is the highest DC for an explosion in D20 modern) then they'll literally do nothing to you.

[Segev]

I'm loving how much of this is the "Barbarian Politician." It's hilarious, picturing this big, burly guy stuffed into a suit giving political rallies. Of course, it's even funnier picturing Ahnold in his Conan getup doing it (instead of his Governator getup).

I was unaware of the ACF that gave dragon wings; that would be pretty cool.

Getting enough DR to superman your way through bullet storms would also be pretty impressive, if you were wiling to go a military/mercenary sort of route in life.

[Elkad]

I shall abandon the world domination plans and simply become champion of every individual sport.

Boxing, MMA, weightlifting, swimming, jumping out of airplanes without a parachute, free diving to the Titanic, etc.

All commercials featuring athletes will eventually feature me only.

Once I'm a bajillionaire from all my endorsement money, I might buy an election. Or SpaceX.

[Velaryon]

I'd build similarly to what I would do with the fighter, but with more focus on sports and combat. As a barbarian I would go into MMA just because I can. The wrestling fan in me would get a lot of joy from challenging Brock Lesnar to a fight and winning in completely dominating fashion. Then I dunno, maybe become a pro wrestler myself. All that DR should help protect me from injuries, my prodigious strength would be good for some truly memorable spots in matches, and I'd have enough fame from other endeavors that they would actually treat me like a big star.

[Andor13]

I feel like more anger is something I don't need in my life. However Barbarians have so many crazy options that I'm sure I can find some good stuff. (Like dragon wings.)

As far as WBL mancy goes, you could spend all your loot on Decanters of endless water and then save the world (Or alternately drown it, and eventually have it collapse into a black hole under the mass of infinite water. ... Maybe by a sphere of annihilation too.)

[Kelb_Panthera]

For those discussing barb vs modern weapons, I just double checked something. A level 20 barb can eat two rounds from an Abrhams battle tank's main cannon and keep fighting at around 35%~ish HP, at least according to d20 modern. That's before raging or pumping DR with extra abilities and assuming con 16 with an amulet of health.

Barbarians are -tough-.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'd go the same route that I want as a fighter, only my ACF'd-out class features would be used a LOT more. I wonder if I could somehow manage a rainbow unicorn mount with fiery rainbow-breath and dragon wings...

[Elricaltovilla]

Do you think Trap Sense would make you a better Yu-Gi-Oh player? That could be useful.

[Seharvepernfan]

wow, d20 modern really undersells modern weapons

DC 18 reflex saves? .50 cals doing 25ish damage? tanks not doing like 200 damage per hit at least?

A modern missile (the ones larger than a man) should be like DC 50 100d6

[Goaty14]

wow, d20 modern really undersells modern weapons

DC 18 reflex saves? .50 cals doing 25ish damage? tanks not doing like 200 damage per hit at least?

A modern missile (the ones larger than a man) should be like DC 50 100d6

Don't forget that einstein/gandalf/etc and that ilk were level 5... tops. This may be a barbarian in question, but his poor saves alone rival the best of our best.

[Kelb_Panthera]

wow, d20 modern really undersells modern weapons

DC 18 reflex saves? .50 cals doing 25ish damage? tanks not doing like 200 damage per hit at least?

A modern missile (the ones larger than a man) should be like DC 50 100d6

The average person in D&D world is level 1 or 2. Thanks to one of the minor differences between D&D and d20 modern just about any firearm has a shot at killing a PC outright and it's generally presumed campaigns will end around level 10~ish rather than going all the way to 20.

If we apply the vitality/wound point system, a barb can't just take a cannon shot to the chest and then "That all you got? Come at me, bro," but he can still have one land at his feet, roll out of the blast and keep coming.

Gotta remember, lvl 20 is mid-tier super heroes and a barb is the super tough kind.

[rmnimoc]

wow, d20 modern really undersells modern weapons

DC 18 reflex saves? .50 cals doing 25ish damage? tanks not doing like 200 damage per hit at least?

A modern missile (the ones larger than a man) should be like DC 50 100d6

The DC 18 reflex save for half makes sense, that's about how much of an explosion's damage you can dodge by getting something between you and it. The .50 makes sense too. Guns are dangerous, but they don't actually do that much more damage to someone than a sword. A fifty cal can ruin someone's day, but plenty of people can survive it. Also, remember that most weapons in d20 modern have a 4x crit multiplier at 19-20. Tank shells aren't meant to kill humans, they're meant to kill tanks. Sure, a tank will ruin your day if it hits you, but it's not that much more dangerous to a person than a cannonball.

As for modern missiles, I'd actually argue that the DC should be lower, not higher. It's not like missiles try to hide. You KNOW when one's about to impact. While they are dangerous, they are survivable. Unless you're talking about nukes. Those are straight up fatal to anyone in the immediate area 100% of the time.

[JNAProductions]

I'm loving how much of this is the "Barbarian Politician." It's hilarious, picturing this big, burly guy stuffed into a suit giving political rallies. Of course, it's even funnier picturing Ahnold in his Conan getup doing it (instead of his Governator getup).

I was unaware of the ACF that gave dragon wings; that would be pretty cool.

Getting enough DR to superman your way through bullet storms would also be pretty impressive, if you were wiling to go a military/mercenary sort of route in life.

Senator Armstrong, from Revengeance?

[Krobar]

Without a doubt, I'd be in the UFC.

[SangoProduction]

Do you think Trap Sense would make you a better Yu-Gi-Oh player? That could be useful.

Maybe, maybe not. But I think it would let you avoid needing to ask "the forbidden question".

[SangoProduction]

I know this is probably talking about D&D 3.5 Barbarian, but one could ostensibly argue that a PF Barbarian, even without access to the Roll With It (3.5) feat, might actually be able to survive a point blank nuke. If he saw it coming and started raging.

Why? Energy Absorption https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo-rage-powers/energy-absorption-su

So, for every 1 point of "Oh my god, it burns" damage you would have taken, you instead gain three (3) temporary hit points, with no apparent cap. This would mean, even if you say that the fireball is only 1/4 of a nuke's actual damage, you wouldn't even notice it. It wouldn't even touch the HP.

If you argue that the fireball is even less than that, you still have the baseline 40 temporary HP (from unchained) on raging, which doesn't hit your actual health, and the DR from the bunch of shrapnel flying about (up to 10 while raging, without feats). You also, most definitely, probably would have wanted to take another copy of Energy Resistance (Sonic) rage power, because ear drums bursting if it passes through the uncountable Temp HP wouldn't be pleasant. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo-rage-powers/energy-resistance-ex

And the radiation? Barbarians have extreme fort saves. You could probably sit at ground zero for months and not even have mild radiation sickness.

The one downside is that a Barbarian level 20 might literally never be able to get drunk, unless you can "choose to fail" the fort save there.

But... I mean... at least you can donate your superhuman antigens to people...and your donated blood would probably burst out of the person's body, wielding their heart as a shield, and spine as a sword.

[Goaty14]

I know this is probably talking about D&D 3.5 Barbarian, but one could ostensibly argue that a PF Barbarian, even without access to the Roll With It (3.5) feat, might actually be able to survive a point blank nuke. If he saw it coming and started raging.

Why? Energy Absorption https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo-rage-powers/energy-absorption-su

So, for every 1 point of "Oh my god, it burns" damage you would have taken, you instead gain three (3) temporary hit points, with no apparent cap. This would mean, even if you say that the fireball is only 1/4 of a nuke's actual damage, you wouldn't even notice it. It wouldn't even touch the HP.

If you argue that the fireball is even less than that, you still have the baseline 40 temporary HP (from unchained) on raging, which doesn't hit your actual health, and the DR from the bunch of shrapnel flying about (up to 10 while raging, without feats). You also, most definitely, probably would have wanted to take another copy of Energy Resistance (Sonic) rage power, because ear drums bursting if it passes through the uncountable Temp HP wouldn't be pleasant. https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo-rage-powers/energy-resistance-ex

And the radiation? Barbarians have extreme fort saves. You could probably sit at ground zero for months and not even have mild radiation sickness.

The one downside is that a Barbarian level 20 might literally never be able to get drunk, unless you can "choose to fail" the fort save there.

But... I mean... at least you can donate your superhuman antigens to people...and your donated blood would probably burst out of the person's body, wielding their heart as a shield, and spine as a sword.

But wouldn't such a barbarian still be subject to force damage by the sheer blast itself? :smallconfused:

[SangoProduction]

But wouldn't such a barbarian still be subject to force damage by the sheer blast itself? :smallconfused:

The shockwave, which you could call sonic damage or physical damage. Doesn't actually matter. I don't think force damage is actually a thing, as we don't exactly have ectoplasmic balls of energy in the real world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_of_nuclear_explosions

OOOOOOooooo! I found the breakdown! Yes! I was looking so long, and my Google-fu was so weak....and it looks like a weak secondary source. Regardless!

So 30-50% of the energy of a nuke goes in to the thermal radiation. Even the lower end is greater than the 25% that would be required to utterly negate the damage of the nuke. So, assuming the source is at least somewhat accurate, you'd be completely fine. You could actually try and cover the nuke with your body, and be A-OK.

In fact, more than that, you'd be invigorated! Is there something we can use the temporary HP for, aside from just getting shot a few more times?

https://i.imgur.com/5pqRRPZ.gif

[Battleship789]

Senator Armstrong, from Revengeance?

Nanomachines Barbarian levels, son!

[Ignimortis]

Senator Armstrong, from Revengeance?

You can't hurt me, Jack!

But seriously, if you sink most of your feats and WBL into Roll with It or other stacking DR sources, the only thing that will be able to hurt you is magic or things that explicitly ignore Damage Resistance. Seeing as most guns are 2d8 damage at most, that might be feasible for smaller-scale fights. And if you can get your hands on Regeneration/Fast Healing...

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You can't hurt me, Jack!

But seriously, if you sink most of your feats and WBL into Roll with It or other stacking DR sources, the only thing that will be able to hurt you is magic or things that explicitly ignore Damage Resistance. Seeing as most guns are 2d8 damage at most, that might be feasible for smaller-scale fights. And if you can get your hands on Regeneration/Fast Healing...Troll Blooded feat, obviously. Now you just need to find a way to become immune to fatigue and exhaustion.

[Crichton]

Troll Blooded feat, obviously. Now you just need to find a way to become immune to fatigue and exhaustion.

Well, and immunity to fire and acid would be nice, to round things out.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, a Troll Blooded warforged with blueshine on his armor would account for 3/4 of those. Think Data, from star trek.

[JyP]

Are the class features of the Barbarian sufficiently different from the bare-bones bonus feats of Fighter to make this a more interesting change? Does this change your life more or differently than becoming a level 20 Fighter? Would you pursue the same life-changing goals/professions?
Well, I talked about being a top archer or fencer in the olympics as a fighter... with barbarian class features instead, I think first about american football : greater base speed by 25% (! enough for sprint or marathon by itself !), bursts of strength (rage), unparalleled ability to take & dodge hits (d12 Hit Dice, dodge, trap sense, damage reduction), still top BAB to throw balls...

[khadgar567]

well besides the old fighter answer. I am gonna loophole abuse a little and choose 2e pathfinder barbarian. then give up part of my class feats to multi class in to sorcerer. so what i have is barbarian 20 with 10 level casting that have decent amount of pocket change. then off to go wwe to have few years of wrestlemania contract. man i like to see lesnars face when i manifest dragon wings in front of him then i can hear mauro renalo swearing even know.

[liquidformat]

Seeing as most guns are 2d8 damage at most

I don't really see any basis for this claim, real world weapons are just too different from d20 function for this to make sense. Take swords or axes for instance, all real world swords and axes with a cutting edge should have the vorpal ability and be capable of lobbing off a limb when accurately aimed. Furthermore, even though dnd gives a nod to people loosing limbs by giving spells and abilities to regrow them/reattach them they never really give any way to actually loose limbs beyond fluff. Heck even a low caliber gun shot at the right spot could easily lead to someone loosing a limb.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I don't really see any basis for this claim, real world weapons are just too different from d20 function for this to make sense. Take swords or axes for instance, all real world swords and axes with a cutting edge should have the vorpal ability and be capable of lobbing off a limb when accurately aimed. Furthermore, even though dnd gives a nod to people loosing limbs by giving spells and abilities to regrow them/reattach them they never really give any way to actually loose limbs beyond fluff. Heck even a low caliber gun shot at the right spot could easily lead to someone loosing a limb.Well, if you want to loose your limbs on an opponent, Savage Species has the Detach feat, so you can pull your limbs off and use them as weapons.

"Fly, my pretties!"

[Segev]

Neat how Barbarian pushes us from "superhuman" to "superhero" levels. I mean, wow, tanking a nuke is impressive!

[Andor13]

Neat how Barbarian pushes us from "superhuman" to "superhero" levels. I mean, wow, tanking a nuke is impressive!

Somewhere, a fighter sits in a tavern, cuddling his feats to his chest, and weeping.

[Elricaltovilla]

well besides the old fighter answer. I am gonna loophole abuse a little and choose 2e pathfinder barbarian. then give up part of my class feats to multi class in to sorcerer. so what i have is barbarian 20 with 10 level casting that have decent amount of pocket change. then off to go wwe to have few years of wrestlemania contract. man i like to see lesnars face when i manifest dragon wings in front of him then i can hear mauro renalo swearing even know.

If we're playing the loophole abuse game then I'm going to be a Primal Disciple (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/dreamscarred-press-barbarian-archetypes/primal-disciple-barbarian-archetype) Barbarian. Trait swap for access to Veiled Moon and swap into Chimera Soul as well and I'm a shapeshifting, teleporting crazy beast of a Barbarian. With advanced study I can pick up chimera soul's 8th level stance and become a dragon. I think that's pretty win for me.

[khadgar567]

If we're playing the loophole abuse game then I'm going to be a Primal Disciple (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/dreamscarred-press-barbarian-archetypes/primal-disciple-barbarian-archetype) Barbarian. Trait swap for access to Veiled Moon and swap into Chimera Soul as well and I'm a shapeshifting, teleporting crazy beast of a Barbarian. With advanced study I can pick up chimera soul's 8th level stance and become a dragon. I think that's pretty win for me.
no problem for me as i am not gonna get any where near the continent you are and hell match between us will blow the littreral roof of wrestlemania and thats worth for me.

[Elricaltovilla]

no problem for me as i am not gonna get any where near the continent you are and hell match between us will blow the littreral roof of wrestlemania and thats worth for me.

Your loss dude, I throw some sick parties. And if the beer ever runs low I can just teleport off to get some more.

[tyckspoon]

Do you think Trap Sense would make you a better Yu-Gi-Oh player? That could be useful.

You could take the Trapkiller ACF, although destroying your opponent's cards and probably cleaving through the playing surface may be considered unsporting. "Let the Wookiee win" probably comes into play at that point, tho.

[Elricaltovilla]

You could take the Trapkiller ACF, although destroying your opponent's cards and probably cleaving through the playing surface may be considered unsporting. "Let the Wookiee win" probably comes into play at that point, tho.

It does sort of raise the question about how we define "trap" in the modern era. Traps are pretty specific in D&D, but there aren't a whole lot of rolling Boulder traps, pitfalls or snares in your average office job.

[Troacctid]

It does sort of raise the question about how we define "trap" in the modern era. Traps are pretty specific in D&D, but there aren't a whole lot of rolling Boulder traps, pitfalls or snares in your average office job.
Even if Yu-Gi-Oh! cards count as traps, the bonus is to AC and Reflex, which means you're good at physically dodging them.

[Andor13]

It does sort of raise the question about how we define "trap" in the modern era. Traps are pretty specific in D&D, but there aren't a whole lot of rolling Boulder traps, pitfalls or snares in your average office job.

Trap jobs, reverse mortgages, extended warranties, moving to Florida, voting for Kang, Crystal Pepsi, 'would you mind working overtime', ....

[Elricaltovilla]

Even if Yu-Gi-Oh! cards count as traps, the bonus is to AC and Reflex, which means you're good at physically dodging them.

Yes, but you can get other trap related ACFs or you could pick up the rogue's trapfinder ability as a trait in Pathfinder, which boosts your perception (for spotting them) and disable device for getting rid of them.

[Troacctid]

Trap jobs, reverse mortgages, extended warranties, moving to Florida, voting for Kang, Crystal Pepsi, 'would you mind working overtime', ....
Any of those things tries to hit you in the face, you're golden!

This is why I picked the ACF trading it away. Eagle Totem is only +2 Reflex, but it applies to ALL Reflex saves instead of just saves against landmines.

[Elricaltovilla]

Any of those things tries to hit you in the face, you're golden!

This is why I picked the ACF trading it away. Eagle Totem is only +2 Reflex, but it applies to ALL Reflex saves instead of just saves against landmines.

Hey it can also help you avoid getting sprayed in the face when you have to walk by the cologne and perfume salesmen in the mall.

[liquidformat]

Trap jobs, reverse mortgages, extended warranties, moving to Florida, voting for Kang, Crystal Pepsi, 'would you mind working overtime', ....

Catfishing, that was the first to come to my mind not sure why...

[Bronk]

You could take the Trapkiller ACF, although destroying your opponent's cards and probably cleaving through the playing surface may be considered unsporting. "Let the Wookiee win" probably comes into play at that point, tho.

That sounds like it would end badly for the angry kitten in my example!

[Arael666]

optimization challenge: can "illiteracy" be made useful? Not really the point of this thread, though.

Other than being immune to explosive runes similar spells, I see no obvious use for being illiterate

[Temotei]

I think it'd be funny to jump out of a plane without a parachute and just land somewhere, fine. Maybe pick up some food afterward.

[Andor13]

If we're playing the loophole abuse game then I'm going to be a Primal Disciple (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/archetypes/dreamscarred-press-barbarian-archetypes/primal-disciple-barbarian-archetype) Barbarian. Trait swap for access to Veiled Moon and swap into Chimera Soul as well and I'm a shapeshifting, teleporting crazy beast of a Barbarian. With advanced study I can pick up chimera soul's 8th level stance and become a dragon. I think that's pretty win for me.

I had that same thought actually, although for RL utility it's hard to beat Sleeping Goddess. That's actually an interesting sub question though: How would you rank the disciplines in terms of usefulness if you could take them here?

I think I would pick Sleeping Goddess, Radiant Dawn, and Chimera Soul as my top 3 picks, covering mind reading and teleporting, Healing and utility, and Shapeshifting madness.

I mean, Radiant Dawn has a 5th level stance that can let you create a ramp anywhere....

[SimonMoon6]

I know this is probably talking about D&D 3.5 Barbarian, but one could ostensibly argue that a PF Barbarian, even without access to the Roll With It (3.5) feat, might actually be able to survive a point blank nuke. If he saw it coming and started raging.

Why? Energy Absorption https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/barbarian/rage-powers/paizo-rage-powers/energy-absorption-su

So, for every 1 point of "Oh my god, it burns" damage you would have taken, you instead gain three (3) temporary hit points, with no apparent cap. This would mean, even if you say that the fireball is only 1/4 of a nuke's actual damage, you wouldn't even notice it. It wouldn't even touch the HP.


I think you've got it backwards. You gain one temporary hit point for every three damage.

So, if the nuke does 4x damage, one fourth of which is energy, then there is x points of energy damage coming your way and 3x points of non-energy damage. With Energy Absorption, you ignore the x energy damage, gaining x/3 temporary hit points... but you also take 3x points of non-energy damage. So, overall, you end up taking 8x/3 damage, which is still a large amount of damage, for large values of x.

[SangoProduction]

Somewhere, a fighter sits in a tavern, cuddling his feats to his chest, and weeping.

sigged.
(Please give me permission)

[SangoProduction]

I think you've got it backwards. You gain one temporary hit point for every three damage.

So, if the nuke does 4x damage, one fourth of which is energy, then there is x points of energy damage coming your way and 3x points of non-energy damage. With Energy Absorption, you ignore the x energy damage, gaining x/3 temporary hit points... but you also take 3x points of non-energy damage. So, overall, you end up taking 8x/3 damage, which is still a large amount of damage, for large values of x.

Oops. I only spent one skill point on my illiteracy.

But slight correction. If energy is 50% of the blast, and this is x, you ignore the energy portion of the damage, regardless.
But you gain x/3 temporary hit points. This means that (2x)/3 is the remaining amount of damage that you'd need to tank.
Since x is 1/2 the blast, you'd need to survive 2/6, or 1/3 of the actual damage of the initial blast. (Give or take 10-20%)

This is a substantial drop, but not the invigoration I was expecting from reading it the other way around.

[AvatarVecna]

My basic approach here was to build a character from the ground up based around two concepts:

1) We live in an E6 nonmagical world, so some things we'd normally need to worry about are completely irrelevant.
2) Following the first thought, our offense will be fine if we can survive, but we need to focus hard on defense.

This has lead me to the creation of this PF build, a defensive monstrosity that should have a really tough time dying.

Barbarian 20 (Invulnerable Rager), with VMC Rogue. 20 point-buy for attributes, and (based on the Race Builder's chart's pattern) up to a 49 build-point race before we'd have to sacrifice levels.

Basics (4):
Type (0): Humanoid (Human)
Size (0): Medium
Speed (0): Normal
Attributes (4): Advanced (+2/+2/+2/+4/+0/-2)
Languages (0): Normal
Attributes Traits (16):
(4) Advanced Strength 1
(4) Advanced Dexterity 1
(4) Advanced Constitution 1
(4) Advanced Wisdom 1
Defense Traits (1):
(1) Lesser Defensive Training 1: Humanoid (Human)
Feat & Skill Traits (13):
(4) Flexible Bonus Feat 1
(2) Gifted Linguist 1
(1) Skill Training 1: Diplomacy/Sense Motive
(4) Skilled 1
(2) Static Bonus Feat 1: Endurance
Movement Traits (15):
(2) Swim 1
(3) Fast 2
(10) Flight 1: 60 ft (good)
Senses Traits (2):
(2) 60 ft Darkvision
Weakness Traits (-2):
(-1) Light Sensitivity
(-1) Negative Energy Affinity

With that out of the way, I can assign 20 point-buy and level bumps to attributes; I end up with 19/18/23/16/16/5 prior to ABP/items. I'm using the Automatic Bonus Progression (giving up half my wealth in exchange for some always-on benefits I don't get to fully choose); additionally, because one of the criteria for the "bonus levels" of ABP is "or make them so exceedingly rare that there is no expectation of finding them", I feel that IRL it will be nigh-impossible to find or buy magic items...but because of the odd nature of this challenge, this doesn't affect the magic items we start out with from half-WBL (since they're part and parcel of the "become a barbarian 20" schtick. One of my goals with taking ABP (as well as with my items in general) is to not use them to pretend not to be a barbarian, but rather to enhance my barbarian-ness. There is one exception I can think of prior to starting off the top of my head, and that's how I'm going to make sure to have some kind of very limited short-range teleportation ability or something for getting out of cave-ins, building collapses, and other things that might actually be difficult to physically deal with in any reasonable time frame.

With items done, it seems I still have 150k gp to spend. Maybe I'll take another look through the slotless items I'm allowed to buy, or maybe I'll just assume I spend all that 3000 lbs of gold on real-world property. Anyway, here's two version of the character sheet (one raging, one not) that make constant use of Improved Stalwart.

Not Raging (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1671412)

Raging (https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1671521)

Lowest AC is Touch AC 21 while raging (although even that'll usually be pumped to 25 with Defending), all saves are far higher than they really need to be for this situation, and I have 385 or 485 HP. DR 10/- (20/- vs nonlethal), with another 10 DR if I'm using Stalwart. Improved Uncanny Dodge, in addition to dealing with snipers and flankers, also ensures I'll be able to use Stalwart much more often. Evasion pairs well with my high Ref save (which is good since explosions are one of the things I still have to actually worry about), I've almost always got my armor enchanted with Heavy Fortification for blocking most of the crits/precision that manageas to get through my other defenses, and I've got a touch of ER Fire/Cold for everyday temperature issues. Most of the time, hits won't be enough to hurt me, and most of the time, crits will end up becoming hits. The occasional crit that gets through will probably take out a decent chunk of HP, especially if it's a firearm, but nobody's perfect.

If I need to, I can rage as an immediate reaction to getting hit. While raging, I have ER 10 (All) and can 1/rage cut a source of energy damage in half before applying resistance; additionally, while raging, I can pop a move action for +6 dodge to AC vs melee or ranged. I take half damage from falling and can pop my armor to halve the damage of any blow that would kill me...not that falling damage would be all that bad even if I took the full brunt. Heck, 20d6 is terminal velocity, somewhere in the neighborhood of slamming into the ground at 120 mph; I could get run over by a car on the highway and it'd probably hurt a good deal less.

If I find I'm taking a lot more damage than I'd like to be, or I'm feeling a little claustrophobic in a cave-in or something, I can activate my Cloak of Etherealness to put 240 ft/round of distance between me and that bad situation (only up to 100 rounds of that a day, though), at which point I can land, rematerialize, and combo my boots with my Fast Healer feat to have Fast Healing 7 until I'm back up to full. Additionally, I'm pretty sure that +16 for endurance checks, a 60 ft movement speed, and +30 survival makes me a godlike hunter/hiker, for if I need to track somebody through a snowstorm. I can even breath underwater and have a swim speed.

Bombs, poison gas, guns, tanks, burning buildings, falling buildings, natural disasters...heck, if I'm raging, I can survive 7 rounds of total immersion in lava...and so long as I've not hit negatives, I can stand at the edge of the lava pit, do my power stance, and be back to full health in 6 minutes.

With 150k gp burning a hole in my pocket, 40 languages from race/ranks, and a level of combat prowess and invulnerability not seen the world over, I'd probably end up becoming a traveling merc taking jobs for the thrill or the warm fuzzies it'd give me, rather than the money.

EDIT: A slight change of switching out Rolling Dodge (dodge bonuses aren't so useful against modern PF guns) for Energy Absorption as part of the nuke trick from earlier (although I will point out that you gain 1 THP for every 3 points of damage you would've taken, not 3 THP per point of damage, as was mentioned).

[Nifft]

Oops. I only spent one skill point on my illiteracy.

You would not be the first person to weaponize illiteracy.

In fact the Barbarian could take this further, by not reading any of the game rules and just getting mad at the DM whenever the DM tried to rule on any of the Barbarian's shenanigans.

[Andor13]

sigged.
(Please give me permission)

lol. Permission granted.

[Celestia]

Oops. I only spent one skill point on my illiteracy.

But slight correction. If energy is 50% of the blast, and this is x, you ignore the energy portion of the damage, regardless.
But you gain x/3 temporary hit points. This means that (2x)/3 is the remaining amount of damage that you'd need to tank.
Since x is 1/2 the blast, you'd need to survive 2/6, or 1/3 of the actual damage of the initial blast. (Give or take 10-20%)

This is a substantial drop, but not the invigoration I was expecting from reading it the other way around.
Surviving a nuke is easy. Just take Troll-Blooded and find some way to become immune to fire. There you go. Of course, depending on how much damage the nuke does, you could still be knocked unconscious for hours, days, or even weeks. So maybe wear a ring of sustenance. :smalltongue: