Which Epic monster would you start at level 1 as?

[RoboEmperor]

So p.156 of the Epic Level Handbook has a table of all the epic monsters and their ECL. That's right, EFFECTIVE CHARACTER LEVEL. And this ECL is untouched by the update booklet which means it stands as it is in 3.5.

So my DM and I, we're both laughing our asses off at this and decided to give a module a try with a fully epic party.

The backstory for all 4 of us will be: we all tried to kill this epic cleric separately but failed and got killed instead. The Epic Cleric is an absolute sadist so he revived us, then killed us again and again and again until we are all ECL1. Now we band together to kill this cleric (eventually, and if we decide to keep our characters past the module)

Not all Epic monsters have a ECL though. Some have n/a like those colossi and Hecantoncheries, which is why I have provided a list of Epic Monsters with ECL.

Anaxim 38
Atropal 44
Brachyurus 38
Chichimec 27
Demilich 33
Dragon, advanced great wyrm 61
Dream larva 40
Force dragon, adult 45
Gibbering orb 31
Gloom 30
Ha-naga 26
Hagunemnon 36
Hoary hunter 46
Hunefer 27
Infernal 40
Lavawight 32
LeShay 50
Mu spore 35
Neh-thalggu 32
Phane 36
Prismasaurus 60
Prismatic dragon, old 58
Ruin swarm 25
Shadow of the void 35
Shape of fire 35
Sirrush 40
Sirrush, three-headed 45
Slaad, black 29
Slaad, white 24
Tayellah 34
Thorciasid 29
Titan, elder 70
Treant, elder 50
Uvuudaum 30
Vermiurge 42
Winterwight 32
Worm that walks 27


Now I haven't checked whether any of these monsters have a positive LA or negative LA but please check before choosing such a monster because we are starting at level 1 so any monster with a positive LA is not allowed.

So, which epic monster would you start at level 1 as? And please, explain yourself thoroughly! Like what shenanigan you're into and such.

I think I'll choose Hagunemnon (he has a LA of -8. That's right, NEGATIVE) or a Phane unless someone comes up with something even more awesome!

[noob]

How many of the sur powers and slas do you keep?(is it based on savage progressions)
For example if you play an old prismatic dragon do you have a cl of 26(this creature have a la of 0)
Or if you play an elder titan do you have a cl of 29 as a cleric and as a wizard?(la 0)
if it is the case then elder titan is probably the strongest pick.

[MeimuHakurei]

I'd like to choose one that can alternate form into a humanoid or has a sufficiently humanlike appearance to visit towns without drawing too much attention. Assuming your caster level also takes a hit from the delevelling, that's:

-LeShay
-Black/White Slaad
-Elder Titan
-Hagunemnon (very sketchy)

Other than those, can you choose to play as a paragon version of a nonepic monster? That'd open up a lot more options.

[RoboEmperor]

How many of the sur powers and slas do you keep?(is it based on savage progressions)
Also where can I find the level adjustment of the varied epic monsters.

If it's not dependent on HD you get to keep it. If it is dependent on hd, find out how much hd you will have at ECL 1 and then calculate it.

To find the LA, you're going to have to
1. Go to p.156 of the Epic Level Handbook
2. LA is ECL - HD.

I don't think it's illegal to post the ECL numbers only, so actually I'll update 1st post with the ECLs.


I'd like to choose one that can alternate form into a humanoid or has a sufficiently humanlike appearance to visit towns without drawing too much attention. Assuming your caster level also takes a hit from the delevelling, that's:

-LeShay
-Black/White Slaad
-Elder Titan
-Hagunemnon (very sketchy)

Other than those, can you choose to play as a paragon version of a nonepic monster? That'd open up a lot more options.

I prefer nontemplated but ok. As long as ECL is 1 it's fine. LA has to be 0 or lower.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

A rainbow pride prismatic dragon. Old prismatic dragons gain 1-2 dragon HD per ECL (59 HD at ECL 58), meaning they get -1 LA, and I'd probably start out with 2 HD at ECL 1 and just keep getting better from there. Plus, dragon. Plus, rainbow dragon. I could be the centerpiece of every pride parade. :smallwink: Gotta support the equal-rights LGBT movement, after all.

[noob]

A rainbow pride prismatic dragon. Old prismatic dragons gain 1-2 dragon HD per ECL (59 HD at ECL 58), meaning they get -1 LA, and I'd probably start out with 2 HD at ECL 1 and just keep getting better from there. Plus, dragon. Plus, rainbow dragon. I could be the centerpiece of every pride parade. :smallwink: Gotta support the equal-rights LGBT movement, after all.

It have some interests but sadly it have less cl and less spell slots and less slas than an elder titan.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

It have some interests but sadly it have less cl and less spell slots and less slas than an elder titan.Yes, but dragon. Dragons break all the rules. Gaining epic feats at level 1, ignoring the prereqs for feats and PrCs? Dragon archetypes? Epic Spellcasting?

If you thought Dragonwrought kobolds are cheesy, you ain't seen anything yet.

"Screw the rules! I've got money! I'M A MOTHER-EFFIN' DRAGON!"

[RoboEmperor]

Concerning the Paragon Template, I can't seem to find a LA for it, so I guess you can't apply Paragon to a playable race. p.156 of the Epic Level handbook gives Paragon Mindflayers who have an ECL of 15, an ECL of 26 so it seems the Paragon Template gives a +11 LA with no increase in hd which means all paragon creatures are illegal for a level 1 character.

So I guess no Paragon, or pseudonatural for that matter.

edit: There are 37 valid choices only, I guess.

[noob]

Yes, but dragon. Dragons break all the rules. Gaining epic feats at level 1, ignoring the prereqs for feats and PrCs? Dragon archetypes? Epic Spellcasting?

If you thought Dragonwrought kobolds are cheesy, you ain't seen anything yet.

"Screw the rules! I've got money! I'M A MOTHER-EFFIN' DRAGON!"

Except that due to how obtuse people are about rules for dragons they are going to say a prismatic dragon does not counts as a dragon at all and then people will wonder if it still counts as a kobold.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Except that due to how obtuse people are about rules for dragons they are going to say a prismatic dragon does not counts as a dragon at all and then people will wonder if it still counts as a kobold.Well, you're not exactly wrong about that, but them? They would be wrong.

Why? Because I'm a dragon.

And yes, that will be my answer to everything from now on. Because dragon.

[magicalmagicman]

You sir, I believe you have found something that exceeds even the Tippyverse. I think nothing short of pun-pun is more powerful than this.

[gogogome]

You sir, I believe you have found something that exceeds even the Tippyverse. I think nothing short of pun-pun is more powerful than this.

It's actually stronger than pun-pun because the Elder Titan has 29th level arcane and divine casting from the get go. Doesn't need candles of invocation.

I would choose protean because it seems fun to play as.

[Asmotherion]

Demilich. I've been trying to get to play one since forever.

Also, since it's a Racial Feature for me to be a 21 Level spellcaster, it's kinda a Win-Win Situation. :P

Sure, I won't be getting any Levels any time soon, but who cares? I'm a Demilich.

The only real problem might be casting spells with an Exp cost. Which kinda makes sence on why I would pray on Adventurers. At that level, everything that can actually earn me some Exp counts. Everything makes much more sence when you see it on the Bad Guy Perspective I suppose? XD

[ben-zayb]

Protean, definitely. Why just be a T1 caster when you can emulate (and eventually turn yourself into one) using 4 Extraordinary Abilities

[RoboEmperor]

Demilich. I've been trying to get to play one since forever.

Also, since it's a Racial Feature for me to be a 21 Level spellcaster, it's kinda a Win-Win Situation. :P

Sure, I won't be getting any Levels any time soon, but who cares? I'm a Demilich.

The only real problem might be casting spells with an Exp cost. Which kinda makes sence on why I would pray on Adventurers. At that level, everything that can actually earn me some Exp counts. Everything makes much more sence when you see it on the Bad Guy Perspective I suppose? XD

Demilichs are 33ECL at 21hd, so they have an LA of +12

: (

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Demilichs are 33ECL at 21hd, so they have an LA of +12

: (I still like having -1 LA.

Also, dragon.

[Celestia]

A rainbow pride prismatic dragon. Old prismatic dragons gain 1-2 dragon HD per ECL (59 HD at ECL 58), meaning they get -1 LA, and I'd probably start out with 2 HD at ECL 1 and just keep getting better from there. Plus, dragon. Plus, rainbow dragon. I could be the centerpiece of every pride parade. :smallwink: Gotta support the equal-rights LGBT movement, after all.
I think I'd be a rainbow dragon, too. It's definitely the coolest option available.

[Segev]

Well, since my first choice of Pseudonatural Human is out, I'd probably go with LeShay. The ability to pass for an elf, plus almost-inevitably Charming everybody who it meets, is really good.

Gibbering Orbs are an interesting alternative, being super-epic Beholders.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I think I'd be a rainbow dragon, too. It's definitely the coolest option available.Yep! We could be beautiful and badass together.

And I'd try to take a level of ardent and Supernatural Transformation (Psionics) early on so I could invest in ways to learn higher level powers as I go.