Building an Elder Evil

[Tokuhara]

So I am writing up a campaign for a (relatively) small party, using Pathfinder with 3.5 add-ons (feats, spells, PrCs at my discression) centered around the players all being Native Outsiders (basically, non-outsider races are disallowed).

Idea essentially is that a great evil is about to awaken, a power so great deities of all alignments put aside their differences to bestow boons onto a group of heroes (my PCs). However, I want the elder evil, an evil so scary even Gods won't speak its name, in question to really make the players scared to fight its powers and minions, hellbent on stopping its rise.

So how should this evil be built? My concept is a cthonic dragon tied to evil outsiders that feeds on magic. Plan was to use a mix at later stages of lesser-known evil outsiders and Dragons for major encounters before they face its Avatar. Unless they fail. Then the evil rises and they die trying to fight it.

So here's my question: how should I build it and the lower-level encounters. Figured the Avatar would simply be a mildly overturned Half-Fiend Abyssal Dragon with extra stats and a modified breath weapon, but the actual evil should be essentially unkillable: a walking TPK that could easily best Gods and the Tarrasque. As for low-level stuff, the initial dungeon is intended to be generic (orc raiding camp with an Orc Shaman leading), that just before they kill the Shaman, theybare whisked away by divine magic and given their real quest. So the minions of this evil are what I truly could use. I can throw Evil Outsiders and Dragons at them later on, but initially, probably want to expose them to the more mortal contingents first.

Game is set to kick off in about a year or so, but any help would be appreciated. Setting is a custom blend of Greyhawk, Faerun, and Golarion, so the main deity cast is going to be a blend of them. Thanks all and may you all roll well!

[Feantar]

Did you get your inspiration from Níðhöggr(Nidhogg) or perhaps Apep?

Edit: I am not calling your concept unoriginal, just trying to grasp the feel of what you're trying to do.

[Tokuhara]

Originally drawn more from Ashardalon, but I seriously want to show love to the less popular Evil Outsiders (Rakshasa, Oni, Kyton, etc) to add a fun twist. Though Nidhogg and Apep are definitely plausible draws.

[Arcane_Secrets]

So I am writing up a campaign for a (relatively) small party, using Pathfinder with 3.5 add-ons (feats, spells, PrCs at my discression) centered around the players all being Native Outsiders (basically, non-outsider races are disallowed).

Idea essentially is that a great evil is about to awaken, a power so great deities of all alignments put aside their differences to bestow boons onto a group of heroes (my PCs). However, I want the elder evil, an evil so scary even Gods won't speak its name, in question to really make the players scared to fight its powers and minions, hellbent on stopping its rise.

So how should this evil be built? My concept is a cthonic dragon tied to evil outsiders that feeds on magic. Plan was to use a mix at later stages of lesser-known evil outsiders and Dragons for major encounters before they face its Avatar. Unless they fail. Then the evil rises and they die trying to fight it.

So here's my question: how should I build it and the lower-level encounters. Figured the Avatar would simply be a mildly overturned Half-Fiend Abyssal Dragon with extra stats and a modified breath weapon, but the actual evil should be essentially unkillable: a walking TPK that could easily best Gods and the Tarrasque. As for low-level stuff, the initial dungeon is intended to be generic (orc raiding camp with an Orc Shaman leading), that just before they kill the Shaman, theybare whisked away by divine magic and given their real quest. So the minions of this evil are what I truly could use. I can throw Evil Outsiders and Dragons at them later on, but initially, probably want to expose them to the more mortal contingents first.

Perhaps it not only absorbs spells, but it also gains increasing amounts of regeneration depending on the strength of the spell, or even the divine spell-like or salient divine abilities that are used against it. This would have a lot of implications for how the original fight against it went in that not only would the gods of strength have been vital to use against it, but only indirect spells or buffs could be used in the battle and all of the gods that used magic had to coordinate everything well in advance to make sure that they weren't manipulated into healing it. I also don't think there's ever been a dragon whose breath weapon innately strips off all applied spells and magic powers although I think there was a spell that applied that to an existing breath weapon use (I could be wrong about this, however) so that could be a nasty ability to give it.

Do you have access to Draconomicon in 3rd ed?


Game is set to kick off in about a year or so, but any help would be appreciated. Setting is a custom blend of Greyhawk, Faerun, and Golarion, so the main deity cast is going to be a blend of them. Thanks all and may you all roll well!

Interesting. If you're running this post-Spellplague 4e in terms of world history then is there the possibility that particular turmoil awakened or disturbed it given its connection to magic?

[Tokuhara]

Perhaps it not only absorbs spells, but it also gains increasing amounts of regeneration depending on the strength of the spell, or even the divine spell-like or salient divine abilities that are used against it. This would have a lot of implications for how the original fight against it went in that not only would the gods of strength have been vital to use against it, but only indirect spells or buffs could be used in the battle and all of the gods that used magic had to coordinate everything well in advance to make sure that they weren't manipulated into healing it. I also don't think there's ever been a dragon whose breath weapon innately strips off all applied spells and magic powers although I think there was a spell that applied that to an existing breath weapon use (I could be wrong about this, however) so that could be a nasty ability to give it.

Do you have access to Draconomicon in 3rd ed?

Sadly, my old computer committed suicide, so my digital copies have been gone a while now.

That much being said idea was that it sustained itself off magic in all forms. Originally this was a Dragon that acted as the balance to Magic amok. However, a god whose name is long forgotten, corrupted it by attempting to siphon the magic it consumed. In doing so, it caused the ancient dragon to twist and corrupt into an abomination, making its hunger insatiable. The old gods of this realm had to bind its soul in the spaces between realms (force it into a Vestige) whilst sealing its body in many of the outer planes to keep it from reforming. However, if the pieces are ever brought together and a ritual to return its soul to the realm, even the current gods could not seal it away, and all magic would be in jeopardy.

So giving it essentially a reverse breath weapon that eats magic, an antimagic cone, and perhaps some breath weapon that would seriously do damage (something essentially impossible to stop) would make that end scary. However, the only thing that bugs me is the problem of its own spellcasting. Should it essentially be a super-abjurer or should it have access to the everything?


Interesting. If you're running this post-Spellplague 4e in terms of world history then is there the possibility that particular turmoil awakened or disturbed it given its connection to magic?

Essentially what the Spellplague equivalent did was act as the first sign that this creature was to be awakened. If you will, the first domino that falls. The plane itself is an amalgam of my favorite nations from Greyhawk, Golarion, and Faerun all given new names, and with the remnants of the pantheons collected into a new pantheon with a few lucky mortals whom ascended to godhood (Strahd usurping Nerull, the Raven Queen fusing with Pharasma, my old Kobold Wizard being the new God of Luck (long story...), etc) with raw magic being used to restore the worlds lost, though this Dragon would threaten the this delicate balance.

[Asmotherion]

From my Personal Campain, it's a Shadow Great Wyrm Red Dragon who has advanced as a 24 Level Sorcerer, and has access to Epic Spellcasting.

He resides on the Astral Plane, and tries to find a Way to come onto the Prime Material into his True Form. He has been visiting the plane in a lesser form, and manipulating events for his summoning.

The inspiration is Jack of Blades from Fable: The Lost Chapters.

It's the Epic Final Boss of the Campain.

[Lotheb]

Abjuration vs generalist casting prolly depends on how it absorbs spells. It it learns them or absorbs them it could release them later to have access to all sorts of spells, if it digests them then i'd think go with just abjuration as it's digestive system, with maybe some healing/buffs for how it metabolizes the spells.

[iTreeby]

A dragon with spell fire?

[Tokuhara]

Idea was that it eats the spell and heals SLd12+9 (so if it eats Meteor Storm, it heals 9d12+9), with the true form healing 2xSLd12+9 (above example becomes it healing 18d12+9), so Abjurer focused list with some "stolen" spells from other class lists for thematic flavor (things Dragons usually cannot access, and perhaps some Evil spells for flavor), and maybe make its breath weapon do Vile damage (obviously, the Avatar's version would be MUCH less lethal that the True Form's, but still scary)