breaking in magic shops, alarm spell

[TundraBuccaneer]

Hi, A character of mine is a arcane trickster and his thing is collecting magical items legally or not. My dm told me that soon we will be going to a high elf city with a lot of magic shops, and have a few months of down time were living expenses are paid for. He also told me that he's completely fine with me doing silly stuff and nonsense.
To steal items from magic shops might be difficult though since those shops tent to have magic users in them that could magically protect there wears with spells like alarm. I need to find ways to break those.

What would be ways to break the alarm spell and other trap/ward spells?

My character is now lvl5, human(variant, magic initiate), arcane trickster
str 11
dex 16
con 14
int 16
wis 13
cha 12

skills: acrobatics, sleight of hand, stealth, arcana, investigation, perception, deception
expertise: stealth and perception
my spells are:
minor illusion
prestidigitation
mage hand
booming blade
message

(My dm gave permission to not hold me on the school restriction on arcane trickster)
charm person (1per day from magic initiate, from being a variant human)
absorb elements
disguise self
tasha's hideous laughter
homebrew spell that forces people to poop (I said arcane trickster is basically a sh*tty wizard then the dm added a joke spell scroll so I learned it, until now the most useful spell I got)


I hope I haven't been to vague, most things I write tent to be that way.
I'm thankful for any help though, and have a nice day/night:smallbiggrin:

[Silkensword]

You'll need to purchase a scroll of Dispel Magic, RAW. You may get your DM to let you make a thieve's tools check against whoever cast alarm's spell DC, though that isn't RAW and you'd have to ask nicely, probably. Alternatively, if it has a glass storefront / showcase, you could purchase two scrolls of misty step to get in and out (since you won't be walking through the door) but that's much riskier.

Also i recommend not buying the scrolls from the same shop you steal from. that miiiight just be suspicious.

[Rixitichil]

Using Mage Hand or Unseen Servant to fish objects out of the Alarmed area would seem to be your best solution as you lack Dispel Magic.

[Lord Vukodlak]

The magical items might not be stored in the shop after hours but in a hidden vault. Whats left in the shop could be curse items. Even if items are stored in the shop, each one might be locked in a case. And each item in the case has a chain tying it to the display case. The items could be dipped in perfume allowing you to be tracked down by the scent.
I would be very cautious about doing this it could be a trap/adventure hook were you get arrested and the party is forced into some kind of service to earn your freedom. You need to find out what security measures they have before you go bumbling in.

[TundraBuccaneer]

You'll need to purchase a scroll of Dispel Magic, RAW. You may get your DM to let you make a thieve's tools check against whoever cast alarm's spell DC, though that isn't RAW and you'd have to ask nicely, probably. Alternatively, if it has a glass storefront / showcase, you could purchase two scrolls of misty step to get in and out (since you won't be walking through the door) but that's much riskier.

Also i recommend not buying the scrolls from the same shop you steal from. that miiiight just be suspicious.

Good idea, might be expensive though. Although magic items might be cheaper there, I know that my dm plays with prices of items depending on the places that they are sold at.


Using Mage Hand or Unseen Servant to fish objects out of the Alarmed area would seem to be your best solution as you lack Dispel Magic.

I didn't even think of the fact that mage hand wouldn't even activate alarm, I might get away with that


The magical items might not be stored in the shop after hours but in a hidden vault. Whats left in the shop could be curse items. Even if items are stored in the shop, each one might be locked in a case. And each item in the case has a chain tying it to the display case. The items could be dipped in perfume allowing you to be tracked down by the scent. You need to find out what security measures they have before you go bumbling in.

Nice lots of things I can look out for to investigate, luckily I have time


I would be very cautious about doing this it could be a trap/adventure hook were you get arrested and the party is forced into some kind of service to earn your freedom.

I don't think that this would be the case since it was more of a question of what I would want to do in my few months of downtime. And if I fail I might be in jail until the end of that downtime, but unless I really did a bad job he woudn't make it a prison break adventure (unless we make it one). Also it was me who came up with the I would probably be in jail for trying to steal magical items because that sounds like my character, I'm a arcane tricksters trouble is a requirement.

[Lunali]

Using Mage Hand or Unseen Servant to fish objects out of the Alarmed area would seem to be your best solution as you lack Dispel Magic.

Alternatively you could go with the old school thief favorite, the 10 ft pole.

[Maelynn]

Using Mage Hand or Unseen Servant to fish objects out of the Alarmed area would seem to be your best solution as you lack Dispel Magic.

I didn't even think of the fact that mage hand wouldn't even activate alarm, I might get away with that

Just wondering how you're going to get a Mage Hand, or the stolen object for that matter, out through a solid wall/door/window. I mean, I seriously doubt they're going to leave a window open.

[Tetrasodium]

Hi, A character of mine is a arcane trickster and his thing is collecting magical items legally or not. My dm told me that soon we will be going to a high elf city with a lot of magic shops, and have a few months of down time were living expenses are paid for. He also told me that he's completely fine with me doing silly stuff and nonsense.
To steal items from magic shops might be difficult though since those shops tent to have magic users in them that could magically protect there wears with spells like alarm. I need to find ways to break those.

What would be ways to break the alarm spell and other trap/ward spells?

My character is now lvl5, human(variant, magic initiate), arcane trickster
str 11
dex 16
con 14
int 16
wis 13
cha 12

skills: acrobatics, sleight of hand, stealth, arcana, investigation, perception, deception
expertise: stealth and perception
my spells are:
minor illusion
prestidigitation
mage hand
booming blade
message

(My dm gave permission to not hold me on the school restriction on arcane trickster)
charm person (1per day from magic initiate, from being a variant human)
absorb elements
disguise self
tasha's hideous laughter
homebrew spell that forces people to poop (I said arcane trickster is basically a sh*tty wizard then the dm added a joke spell scroll so I learned it, until now the most useful spell I got)


I hope I haven't been to vague, most things I write tent to be that way.
I'm thankful for any help though, and have a nice day/night:smallbiggrin:


I had a player try doing something like that with a familiar once. The glare when an invisible familiar went into the back room & saw that there was a bead curtain covered with bells leading to the vault was priceless :P

a mix of physical & arcane traps is great. Keith Baker did a nice writeup on some simple yet devious traps/locks/wards here (http://keith-baker.com/dragonmarks-locks-and-wards/)

[Rixitichil]

Just wondering how you're going to get a Mage Hand, or the stolen object for that matter, out through a solid wall/door/window. I mean, I seriously doubt they're going to leave a window open.

Thieves Tools and Mage Hand to open a window/door/skylight from a distance mostly. Same to unlock any cabinets inside. Not a foolproof plan, but the best I can think of given the restrictions listed.

[Maelynn]

Thieves Tools and Mage Hand to open a window/door/skylight from a distance mostly. Same to unlock any cabinets inside. Not a foolproof plan, but the best I can think of given the restrictions listed.

The spell doesn't explicitly say, but does your proficiency with thieves' tools carry over to the Mage Hand? Personally, I'd rule that you can't, because the tools section on PHB 154 says 'any ability checks you make'...

Good thing it's a cantrip, then, because with a duration of 1 minute you're going to need several of them.

[Coec]

I would look into getting an amulet of proof against detection. What's to say the shop owner won't try to locate object the item that was stolen. If you're wearing the necklace all your items can't be scried upon including the ones you stole whether you're wearing them or not. It would also be a good idea to spend most of your downtime doing recon and then the big heist be on the last day you and your allies are staying oon town. This way you way be lingering around for him to find you. Would be a fun gone in 60 seconds kinda encounter.

[LordEntrails]

Of course, once you get the item(s) out, you've got a simple problem. All the victim has to do is go trade services with a local priest for a divination spell that tells him who stole his stuff and where it is.

By the time you spend money on magic to help you steal what you want, and get away with it, and then to counter all the ways they can track you down, it probably would be cheaper to just buy the item in the first place.

[Unoriginal]

Use Disguise Self and Charm person to convince a bunch of local criminals you will dispel the shop's alarm at a certain hour on a certain day. They break in, activate the alarm, and either run away successfully or are caught.

If they run away, you can keep what they've stolen, plus turn them to the cops with your real face for a reward. If they are caught, you can get in the shop while everyone is distracted or once most people have left, but before he Alarm spell is put back.

[Maelynn]

Of course, once you get the item(s) out, you've got a simple problem. All the victim has to do is go trade services with a local priest for a divination spell that tells him who stole his stuff and where it is.

Locate Object can easily be blocked by a thin sheet of lead. The OP just needs to make sure he puts whatever he steals in a lead container.

[Lunali]

The spell doesn't explicitly say, but does your proficiency with thieves' tools carry over to the Mage Hand? Personally, I'd rule that you can't, because the tools section on PHB 154 says 'any ability checks you make'...

Good thing it's a cantrip, then, because with a duration of 1 minute you're going to need several of them.

It doesn't explicitly say that your proficiency carries over, but I would say that the arcane trickster's mage hand legerdemain intends that you be able to use it when it says you can use thieves' tools to pick locks and disarm traps at range.

[willdaBEAST]

Locate Object can easily be blocked by a thin sheet of lead. The OP just needs to make sure he puts whatever he steals in a lead container.

And then never use it or fence the stolen goods? Seems like it's veering into more trouble than it's worth.

Some things I'd consider as the OP:

-You're an outsider (variant human) in a high elf society, you will likely be treated poorly if caught.

-I would try to get the DM to give you several options of which shop you can target. That way you can do some legwork and try to find a shopkeeper without political connections or strong ties to the criminal underworld. This might also discourage a "gotcha!" DM, unless all the options are traps.

-Other posters have suggested that you option an amulet of proof against detection. In a game I played in, my character had one of those and it didn't make a shred of difference. This is going to largely depend on the DM. The one running the campaign said that they couldn't spy on my character, but could scry on the others.

[JackPhoenix]

Thieves Tools and Mage Hand to open a window/door/skylight from a distance mostly. Same to unlock any cabinets inside. Not a foolproof plan, but the best I can think of given the restrictions listed.

That assumes the window or door can be unlocked from the outside.

Honestly, I seriously doubt any magic shop worthy of the name would have the items on display. Spell components, foci and other non-magical stuff, sure, consumables, maybe, but anything else would be inside heavily protected vault, with the owner bringing it on demand.

[LordEntrails]

Locate Object can easily be blocked by a thin sheet of lead. The OP just needs to make sure he puts whatever he steals in a lead container.
Yep, unless the object being located "is the pants of the creature that stole my stuff"

Or unless they use a different divination spell :)

[LordEntrails]

Or, as WildaBeast implies, it more dependent upon where the DM wants to take the story than anything else.

There is magic and counter magic and counter counter magic so only the DM can decide if it end up being simple or not.

[Lunali]

Yep, unless the object being located "is the pants of the creature that stole my stuff"

Or unless they use a different divination spell :)

You can locate a specific object known to you or the nearest object of a general sort. So if you knew who stole your stuff and have seen their pants, you can locate them, otherwise the best you'd be able to do is locate the nearest pants.

[LordEntrails]

You can locate a specific object known to you or the nearest object of a general sort. So if you knew who stole your stuff and have seen their pants, you can locate them, otherwise the best you'd be able to do is locate the nearest pants.
With the "Locate Object" spell in the PHB, which is written for characters, not for DMs. DMs can create any magical spell or variation they see fit.

[TundraBuccaneer]

So I need protection from divination and then not to be seen by anyone while I'm on the job.
Also I have A other question: can chime of opening be used on arcane lock? As I read it it's only one non-magical objects but I might be wrong.
For recon I was thinking to join a magic shop try to find out how their protection works and if other shops are similar and visit them in disguise, and then steal from the other shops.
Getting into contact with the thieves guild there might be useful too, but I might not want to charm and deceive them like that if they are a strong group.
Also I might get our warlock to help me, since she has mask of many faces, friends and charm person.

[Lunali]

So I need protection from divination and then not to be seen by anyone while I'm on the job.
Also I have A other question: can chime of opening be used on arcane lock? As I read it it's only one non-magical objects but I might be wrong.
For recon I was thinking to join a magic shop try to find out how their protection works and if other shops are similar and visit them in disguise, and then steal from the other shops.
Getting into contact with the thieves guild there might be useful too, but I might not want to charm and deceive them like that if they are a strong group.
Also I might get our warlock to help me, since she has mask of many faces, friends and charm person.

Chime of opening no longer explicitly says that it works on arcane lock so it's up to the DM, but I would allow it based on previous editions.

One thing to keep in mind, divinations like scry have DCs based on knowing the target, working in the store will make it much easier to scry on you if you aren't completely protected. Ideally, one person will scout the target and a second will do the actual theft, never setting foot in the store either before the crime or during the theft.

If you're staying in town, getting into contact with the thieves' guild is probably a good idea, at least to avoid stepping on any toes. Some thieves' guilds take offense at major thefts by non-members.