Hexblade two-weapon fighting, or else ?

[Laereth]

Hey all !

Just started a new game, set in the wonderful world of Chult !

I set my eyes on playing a yuan-ti (for story reasons with the death curse Omu and all), and i chose hexblade because I wanted to try out a gish.

I am however not set on the fighting style i want to go witb for my character. Ideally I envision him being a great duelist, using a longsword. However keeping one hand empty is kind of a waste but I am not totaly sold on the idea of having a shield and juat looking like some dark paladin/Knight.

That is where the use of dual wielding came to me, using a whip (I know I am wierd) in my off hand.

I just wanted your thoughts on 2 weapon fighting amd warlock, is it viable ? Or will it be incredibly clunky ?

Am I condemned to grab a shield with my sword to be doing good ?

[ZenBear]

I don’t know enough to give solid mechanical advice, but I’ll throw in my 2 cents anyway. Dual wielding is just flat inferior to every other fighting style, but not so much as to be a trap. If you want to dual wield, go forth and have fun. From an aesthetic POV, I like the whip idea. With Warlocks you can summon and dismiss your Pact weapon, so having a whip in your off-hand gives you two-gold surprise factor. 1: the enemy sees the whip and expects you to be a second line of defense, dancing around the edges of the fight, until you bust out the real weapon and start wrecking face. 2: you get to pull the classic “I am not left-handed” line.

[Expected]

I just wanted your thoughts on 2 weapon fighting amd warlock, is it viable ? Or will it be incredibly clunky ?

It completely depends on if you care more about damage per round or character concept/roleplay.

Two-weapon fighting is a suboptimal choice. The offhand attack does not apply your ability modifier and the weapon in your offhand needs to have the light property unless you have fighting style: two-weapon fighting. Warlock is a good class, especially for multiclassing--many builds dip 2-3 levels in Warlock for Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Invocations (for the Darkness+Devil's Sight combo), or Pact of the Blade's feature that allows you to use your Cha modifier in place of Str or Dex.

It is viable, but not optimal. Again, think about your priorities when it comes to your character--do you care more about the concept, or about how much damage you can do? Decide and then adjust your build accordingly.


Am I condemned to grab a shield with my sword to be doing good ?

No, you are not. Shields provide a +2 to AC and are useful for tanks and other roles if you have a free hand and don't need it for spells or if you don't but have the Warcaster feat.

Hexblades are amazing with two-handed weapons such as polearms or greatswords. For example, you can create a Hexblade Warlock and get armor proficiencies, level it to 3 and choose the Pact of the Blade, which allows you to apply Hex Warrior's effect of using the Cha modifier for attack and damage rolls using a two-handed weapon. This eliminates the need for Strength and you can dump it if you'd rather wear light or medium armor.

For this example, we'll assume you chose to wield a halberd (polearm), which does 1d10+Cha damage. Get the Polearm Mastery feat which allows for an opportunity attack when an enemy enters your range and a bonus action attack that does 1d4+Cha damage. If you then get Great Weapon Master, you can choose to suffer a -5 penalty to your attack rolls, but get an additional +10 damage in return. Normally, -5 attack will cause you to miss a lot and lower your average DPR, however, you are a Warlock and can take the Devil's Sight Invocation and cast Darkness. You now get advantage on attacks, thus increasing your chance to hit. Be careful with this though, it may negate the advantage of your party members if they had it.

[Mortis_Elrod]

I wouldn’t reccomend Hexblade for dual wielding. However if you really want it done....

- Ask your DM if you could take an invocation to summon twin blades instead of one for your Pact Weapon. Nothing wrong with an invocation tax for something like this. Maybe add on the TWF style so you don’t have to dip Fighter.

- Have a free hand anyway, and when you want that extra blade cast Shadowblade. Pact weapon in one hand Shadowblade in the other, works out well when you want it. Just don’t expect this to be something you can do every combat. Maybe carry a shield and drop it whenever you Shadowblade.

- Dip 1 level of fighter for TWF style. This is probably what you’re gonna do anyway because otherwise you should just use a greatsword.

- Take the dual wielder feat. Because you get +1 AC and about +1 damage. Oh and drawing your weapons is a non factor now,(if it wasn’t already because that gets glossed over a lot).

[Laereth]

I wouldn’t reccomend Hexblade for dual wielding. However if you really want it done....

- Ask your DM if you could take an invocation to summon twin blades instead of one for your Pact Weapon. Nothing wrong with an invocation tax for something like this. Maybe add on the TWF style so you don’t have to dip Fighter.

- Have a free hand anyway, and when you want that extra blade cast Shadowblade. Pact weapon in one hand Shadowblade in the other, works out well when you want it. Just don’t expect this to be something you can do every combat. Maybe carry a shield and drop it whenever you Shadowblade.

- Dip 1 level of fighter for TWF style. This is probably what you’re gonna do anyway because otherwise you should just use a greatsword.

- Take the dual wielder feat. Because you get +1 AC and about +1 damage. Oh and drawing your weapons is a non factor now,(if it wasn’t already because that gets glossed over a lot).

I never ever even thought about Shadowblade ! Only thing is I would have to see with my DM if he'd let me apply Hexwarrior to it. Otherwise attacking with my Dex will be less optimal (I am not looking at perfect optimal but attacking with a stat at 14 and the other 20 is meh).

But it might be a cool trick anyways !

[Quietus]

Hexblade is a lot of fun, just remember that at level 1 you only get to apply your Cha to a single weapon's attack/damage. Once you reach level 3, if you go pact of the blade, you can actually have two weapons using Cha; the pact weapon automatically gets that benefit for Hexblades, and you can still apply the Hex Warrior's "Cha to attack/damage" to a second weapon. You have to be touching said weapon at the end of a long (?) rest, which is the limiting factor - if you want to use Shadow Blade, then by RAW I do not believe there's a way to use charisma. However, your DM may allow you to choose that as your Hex Warrior weapon - you'll have to ask.

TWF isn't great, but Hexblades can make decent use of it at low levels; remember that your Hex spell, and your Hexblade Curse, will both apply damage to your offhand weapon attacks. The trouble is that you'll have a lot of competition for that bonus action. On the turns where everything comes together, however, it should be pretty fun!

[Taishen]

I think the main drawback of twf is definitely your bonus action economy. Your going to have other things you want that for. If you go with a two hander instead it frees that up to use for hex, quickened spells etc. The build I'm playing right now is pretty unorthodox but hit its stride this level but it's still pretty good before.

My ultimate goal would be a 12 warlock, 8 sorc build if I ever get that far. Giving up the level 7, 8 and 9 spells is painful, and perhaps not even worth it, but at level 8 I can attack 2 or 3 times a round with a two hander with a 5/3 build currently.

Basically I give up higher level spells for vast resources in the lower end.

I'll break it down.

I'm a dark elf divine soul sorcerer(this has some pretty major drawbacks but as a warlock you can get around most of it) hexblade with pact of the blade. Using improved pact weapon, devil sight and thirsting blade. I also have elven accuracy.

First round if it's a boss ill hexblade curse and attack twice with the two hander and get three rolls so I almost never miss and crit about 25% of the time. That's either 4d6+12+8 without a crit or basically 8d6 if I crit plus the rest. Not bad but not amazing.

Next round I can hex it as bonus and hit twice again and raise that damage to 6d6 +12 + 8.

After that I'll usually go with a standard attack followed by a quickened green flame blade. So that jumps to 9d6+18+12+1d8 and another 2d8 to anything close enough and if I crit even better.

Since I basically never miss my damage is very consistent, and on non boss fights I can use darkness or fairie fire.

Next level I'll pick up great weapon master and my damage will jump another 20-30 points a round.

Then toss on top of that an nearly endless supply of sorcery points and spell slots thanks to short rest mechanics and being an elf.

You can either abuse it completely by not long resting at all and just using your warlock slots to recharge your spells and points over and over while the rest are resting. Or rest and do that the next 4 hours instead.

Keep in mind not only can you create more spell slots than can normally have (errata does say you loose them after a long rest however) you can even create spell slots higher level than you can usually cast but no higher than level 5. So if your sorc side is level 7 you can create 5th level spell slots on the sorc side. You can never have more sorc points than your max however so be mindful of that.

That means you always have a shield to use, or absorb, or heals, bless, counter spell and invis to burn. You can use metamagic and low level spells with impunity at the cost of higher level spells, but being melee focused I don't mind that really.

It's a trade off, and one that's debatably not worth it. I'm currently 2 spell levels behind and eventually will be 3. You will find pure casters will do things that outshine you more often than not, this build isnt what I'd call uber powerful and its definitely not broken, but it's extremely consistent and provides your party with a strong pillar to build around.

With medium armor and dex of 14 my ac is 17 and effective AC is 23 since I can shield as much as I need to. I could cast shield of faith to raise that another 2 but that's typically not the best use of my concentration. That's with no magic gear at all.

My health pool isn't amazing but decent but I make it count by not taking much damage and if I do I can quicken heal for 3d8+15 instead of gfb.

It's all AL legal as I'm currently playing it in AL now. Don't be surprised if you have to take time to prove all that though as some people aren't aware of the mechanics but thankfully errata has taken was was ambiguous and made it pretty clearly legal at this point.

[strangebloke]

Hexblade is a lot of fun, just remember that at level 1 you only get to apply your Cha to a single weapon's attack/damage. Once you reach level 3, if you go pact of the blade, you can actually have two weapons using Cha; the pact weapon automatically gets that benefit for Hexblades, and you can still apply the Hex Warrior's "Cha to attack/damage" to a second weapon.

if you want to use Shadow Blade, then by RAW I do not believe there's a way to use charisma. However, your DM may allow you to choose that as your Hex Warrior weapon - you'll have to ask.


Shadowblade is dex-based, and there isn't a way to make it CHA-based. So yeah, talk to your DM.

As cool as shadowblade is, it's actually kind of meh for warlocks. It's concentration, so you can't combo it with darkness/Devil's sight. It's easy to lose concentration on it if you're in melee unless you take Resilient:CON.



- Ask your DM if you could take an invocation to summon twin blades instead of one for your Pact Weapon. Nothing wrong with an invocation tax for something like this. Maybe add on the TWF style so you don’t have to dip Fighter.

- Have a free hand anyway, and when you want that extra blade cast Shadowblade. Pact weapon in one hand Shadowblade in the other, works out well when you want it. Just don’t expect this to be something you can do every combat. Maybe carry a shield and drop it whenever you Shadowblade.

- Dip 1 level of fighter for TWF style. This is probably what you’re gonna do anyway because otherwise you should just use a greatsword.

- Take the dual wielder feat. Because you get +1 AC and about +1 damage. Oh and drawing your weapons is a non factor now,(if it wasn’t already because that gets glossed over a lot).

I disagree with a lot of this post. Shadow blade isn't great for hexblades. It's very easy to lose and it competes with hex and darkness/devil's sight for concentration, and it can't use charisma by default.

Dipping fighter is always solid for any class, but honestly if you're doing this, take your first level in fighter and then go fiendlock for the temporary HP.

Duel wielder is outright bad if he's going to have his offhand weapon be a whip.

[QuickLyRaiNbow]

If it's available, and it probably isn't and probably shouldn't be, the double scimitar from the new Eberron supplement lets you do two-weapon fighting with one weapon and no feat, unlike a polearm. You'd be able to summon one with the Pact Weapon feature at level 3.

[Citan]

Hey all !

Just started a new game, set in the wonderful world of Chult !

I set my eyes on playing a yuan-ti (for story reasons with the death curse Omu and all), and i chose hexblade because I wanted to try out a gish.

I am however not set on the fighting style i want to go witb for my character. Ideally I envision him being a great duelist, using a longsword. However keeping one hand empty is kind of a waste but I am not totaly sold on the idea of having a shield and juat looking like some dark paladin/Knight.

That is where the use of dual wielding came to me, using a whip (I know I am wierd) in my off hand.

I just wanted your thoughts on 2 weapon fighting amd warlock, is it viable ? Or will it be incredibly clunky ?

Am I condemned to grab a shield with my sword to be doing good ?
Hi!
First things first, if you want some idea on two-weapon fighting, search keywords in this subforum, many discussions about it. Or you may just quickly read the "Lvl 1 Fighter / lvl+ Paladin" thread from current days.

Second, yeah it is viable, but yeah, chances are it will be clunky for you.
It all depends on your choice of spells really (as for Paladin, except a tad worse).
For example, Hex is a spell that you will often "move" at least once after casting in the same encounter, so you have to account for 2 bonus actions average when planning.
As a Hexblade, once per short rest, you'll also use a bonus action for the class feature.
Then there is Expeditious Retreat which is always a great pick for low level and provides a bonus action every turn.
One of the smite spells that Hexblade gives access to also.

Then, there is the question of keeping a hand free for manipulating material components and weaving somatic components. Until you take Warcaster, unless your DM waives it, this is a serious consideration to keep in mind, except if you choose your spells around (but that seriously limits the selection ^^).

So it's a bit hard to know whatever way is best for you, at least right now.
That was the bad news.

Now for the good news: you don't have to choose at all!
Although Hexblade gives you proficiency in shield and martial weapons, its features (IIRC) don't require any specific combination.
And anyone can dual-wield, it's just a bit less effective damage-wise.

So nobody prevents you to, for example, start the game as a level 1 Sword and Board character (because priority is not dying, +2 AC is a big deal in that regard), learning Shield spell, then as you gain levels (more HP, more slots, more experience in how to fight) maybe swap it for a skirmisher style (Mirror Image + dual-wielding, or polearm + Expeditious Retreat or smite spell), then swap spells and weapon set again later.

The only "limit" is that you can use CHA only for one weapon (unless you use Shillelagh for the other, but that requires Tome Pact which is a significant decision considering Blade pact offers several Invocations you are probably interested into, so let's put that idea aside^^).
At low levels, it will make at most a +1 difference between DEX (optimizing for medium armor = 14) and CHA (16-17) unless you rolled for stats.
At medium levels, with the difference getting a bit bigger because you'll probably raise CHA, it may be a dealbreaker when fighting resilient targets. And sadly Shadow Blade spell doesn't change that fact, in spite of being technically a weapon created from your magic. ^^
But if/when you can find a reliable way to get advantage, either yourself or from friends, then a +1 or +2 to hit won't make *that much* of a difference except when you target really high AC.
(Even if you can't sadly pick the -arguably overpowered- Elven Accuracy feat ^^).

Conclusion?
Don't put yourself in shackles for nothing. Try it out, take advantage on the fact you can change weapon every long rest and swap one spell per level to try out different things until you find one style that fully satisfies you.
(Although I'd double down on the "start with shield" suggestion, as even a single hit from a measly creature could down you at level 1).


Shadowblade is dex-based, and there isn't a way to make it CHA-based. So yeah, talk to your DM.

As cool as shadowblade is, it's actually kind of meh for warlocks. It's concentration, so you can't combo it with darkness/Devil's sight. It's easy to lose concentration on it if you're in melee unless you take Resilient:CON.



I disagree with a lot of this post. Shadow blade isn't great for hexblades. It's very easy to lose and it competes with hex and darkness/devil's sight for concentration, and it can't use charisma by default.

Dipping fighter is always solid for any class, but honestly if you're doing this, take your first level in fighter and then go fiendlock for the temporary HP.

Duel wielder is outright bad if he's going to have his offhand weapon be a whip.
Note: for a single-level dip, for a Warlock, especially Hexblade, Sorcerer is 100 times better than Fighter. Fighter is overall a big waste.
For many classes in general, a single dip in Sorcerer (or Life/Tempest/War Cleric is primary goal is getting equipment proficiencies) is much, much better than a dip in Fighter. Fighter is really the last option when you need Constitution proficiency right now AND medium/heavy armor AND Fighting Style... AND you have neither required CHA or WIS for the others.
Speaking only of a single level dip for whole career of course. Just the 2nd level changes things heavily, even if taken much later, because Action Surge is indeed tasty when/once you get enough slots to really use it. :)