To Warlock or not to Warlock

[Grear Bylls]

Hello all!

I've recently come into an interesting dilemma with a character I play in AL. My human Fighter 1 Wizard 4 was able to grab Gauntlets of Ogre Power just before I hit level 5, allowing me to rebuild in the nick of time. I'm considering changing my stats from:
15 (+1) Str, 8 Dex, 14 Con, 15 (+1) Int, 10 Wis, 8 Cha
Into:
12 (+1) Str, 8 Dex, 14 Con, 15 (+1) Int, 10 Wis, 13 Cha

This would open up the option for me to gain levels in Warlock. This nets me Armor of Agathys, Devils Sight (on a human), and other Warlock abilities I might want (like Mask of Many faces).

I'm already based around a Flametongue Greatsword that nets me ABSURD damage (I traded for it). This new stat build does offer me powerful Warlock abilities from the Fiend, but also weakens my higher level magic (which is ok because all I really wanted was Mighty Fortress for a mobile fortress).

Other things of note: I'm an Abjurer, V Human with GWM and Mobile. I'm locked into SCAG (for the Cantrips), and I've already scribed absorb elements. How would you guys go with this build?

[DarkKnightJin]

If you'd been an Eldritch Knight, I would've said to go for it, and not to worry about the Wizard levels.

The main draw from Warlock seems to be Armor of Agathys and the Devil's Sight for you.
While AoA would be nice, would it really add enough to make being on the frontline worth it with you primarily d6 hit die?
Devil's Sight is tempting indeed. But in most campaigns, I don't think you'll need to magical darkness thing. And a torch will fix the rest. Not like you're sneaking up on anybody, anyway.

My advice: stick to the Wizard levels, with maybe a second or even third level of Fighter tossed in for Action Surge, and an archetype boost. Some extra spells from EK, increased crit range, or some Battlemaster stuff.
Precision or Feinting Attack could work with a GWM if you want to go that route and make your 1 attack per turn hurt like a truck ran the enemy over.
In fact.. I'm pretty sure that only Commander's Strike wouldn't be compatible with BB or GFB every round.
All the other Maneuvers just mention 'weapon attacks'. Which you make as part of the Scag cantrips, as you're well aware.

[Grear Bylls]

If you'd been an Eldritch Knight, I would've said to go for it, and not to worry about the Wizard levels.

The main draw from Warlock seems to be Armor of Agathys and the Devil's Sight for you.
While AoA would be nice, would it really add enough to make being on the frontline worth it with you primarily d6 hit die?
Devil's Sight is tempting indeed. But in most campaigns, I don't think you'll need to magical darkness thing. And a torch will fix the rest. Not like you're sneaking up on anybody, anyway.

My advice: stick to the Wizard levels, with maybe a second or even third level of Fighter tossed in for Action Surge, and an archetype boost. Some extra spells from EK, increased crit range, or some Battlemaster stuff.
Precision or Feinting Attack could work with a GWM if you want to go that route and make your 1 attack per turn hurt like a truck ran the enemy over.
In fact.. I'm pretty sure that only Commander's Strike wouldn't be compatible with BB or GFB every round.
All the other Maneuvers just mention 'weapon attacks'. Which you make as part of the Scag cantrips, as you're well aware.

I should probably go more in depth to what the original plan was, the character concept, and what I do currently.

This character is beyond tanky. He's only rarely hit due to Shield spell (AC 21) and his Arcane Ward effectively gives him fighter level HP that heals, isn't HP, and adds Int. Will eventually grab Counterspell. He is just fine as a front liner.

His DPR is also insane. 30ish damage per Greatsword swing in tier one is awesome. This gets better with bonus action kill/crit attacks. He also has a hawk familiar for free advantage on every BB or GFB. Very nice. 60 DPR (sometimes 80 with a crit) is fine, too. I also plan on grabbing Haste.

I wanted to first go Champion 4/Abjurer 16 for better crits with a flametongue (4d6+4d6+6d8+15 is pretty insane when you reroll every single 1 and 2). Now that you mention it, Battlemaster seems great. Flavor is great for a tactical genius, and the attack boosts are sweet.

The character is based around being a snobby, stuck up ***hole to peasents as he tries to make his own Kingdom of Strauss. This is more comical than annoying in practice. He also travels on a horse with a cohort of unseen servants to play royal fanfares for him. He announces himself royally and obnoxiously to EVERYONE. This lets his allies hide and stuff. No sneaking at all.

This is all the info I think I need to add

[Ventruenox]

Mask of Many Faces doesn't seem right for this character. He comes across as wanting people to know that it is him. Now Armor of Shadows to keep that ward topped up, and Misty Visions to further his egotistical spectacle could be quite fun. GOOlock has him speaking right into the heads of your NPCs to further drive home his aura of superiority.

If you play at a table with your friends, talk with them first. Being an a-hole in character can get old after a while.

One thing: Intelligence needs to be 13 to multiclass Wizard.

[DarkKnightJin]

BM4/Abj 16 seems like it'd pretty much do what you want, though.

You don't need any Warlock stuff to add to what he's doing. And going by that description of the character.. Would he really be the type to sell their soul, so to speak, for a bit of extra power? Cheating their way into it, basically?

I would think they want to EARN their power, so nobody can deny that their ruler worked hard to het where he is, and didn't take any shortcuts.

[Grear Bylls]

Hmm. Very good points. I was thinking about disguise self a little more after I wrote it, and I agree it doesn't fit with the theme. If I did this, I'd stick to Devils sight and beguiling influence (Armor of shadows Abjurer cheese may not go over well at AL, even if it is RAW). Additionally, warlocks don't have to sell their SOUL. They just need to make a deal. His deal with the devil would be "I need power(what I want) to bring FR under my thumb (what you want)". It's not really taking an easy way out, as he's just taking an opportunity that was right there.

[Vogie]

One thing: Intelligence needs to be 13 to multiclass Wizard.

Good thing he has 16, then


Hmm. Very good points. I was thinking about disguise self a little more after I wrote it, and I agree it doesn't fit with the theme. If I did this, I'd stick to Devils sight and beguiling influence (Armor of shadows Abjurer cheese may not go over well at AL, even if it is RAW). Additionally, warlocks don't have to sell their SOUL. They just need to make a deal. His deal with the devil would be "I need power(what I want) to bring FR under my thumb (what you want)". It's not really taking an easy way out, as he's just taking an opportunity that was right there.

Precisely. I'd've actually suggested going an Archfey pact for your character - You still have access to everything you wanted, but the Fey Presence feature is going to be more in line for the concept of someone who acts above the populace... it also gives access to Faerie Fire, if you cared for it (or have a rogue in the party).

I'd suggest the Fiendish Vigor invocation, with at-will 1st level False life. It'd allow you to have a nice pad of THP during encounters you do NOT want to use AoA, or give you a quick boost of 5+ THP whenever you'd like.

[MrWesson22]

Dump str to 8. Bump dex up to 14 (or at least the 13 for multiclassing fighter). With gauntlets of ogre power, there is zero reason to point buy above 8 str.

[Grear Bylls]

Precisely. I'd've actually suggested going an Archfey pact for your character - You still have access to everything you wanted, but the Fey Presence feature is going to be more in line for the concept of someone who acts above the populace... it also gives access to Faerie Fire, if you cared for it (or have a rogue in the party).

I'd suggest the Fiendish Vigor invocation, with at-will 1st level False life. It'd allow you to have a nice pad of THP during encounters you do NOT want to use AoA, or give you a quick boost of 5+ THP whenever you'd like.

I was really looking at fiend, as he speaks Ignan, Draconic, and Infernal, uses mainly fire spells, gets small THP boosts on each kill, and gets Command. Command is really where it's at for his spells, as I can force "Kneel" or "Bow" or other things like that.


Dump str to 8. Bump dex up to 14 (or at least the 13 for multiclassing fighter). With gauntlets of ogre power, there is zero reason to point buy above 8 str.

Was thinking of this too, as his theme is more using magic to fuel his fighting (deflecting arrows or grabbing Ogre clubs as they come to him with shield).

Probably would go with: 8, 13, 14, 16, 10, 13, eventually bumping the Dex and Charisma 1 each

[PeteNutButter]

I’m not sure it’s worth it to diverge from your wizard levels. Wizard nets you a fair amount of ways to get advantage and grows that giant ward. The Hold spells and the automatic crits would work excellently with your FT.

Having built a character around gauntlets of ogre power I can say from experience you’ll want all the + to hit you can get to get the GWM working for you. It’s been working great for you in tier 1 but the flame tongue has no pluses and you might find yourself in lots of situations where you’re better off not using the -5/+10. Some quick numbers suggest your DPR goes down using GWM on anything above a 12 AC. Your hits just do too much damage to be worth the risk of missing.

Other things you might want to consider:
1) Warcaster/resilient con. You can’t always count on mobile to avoid getting hit and you’ll want to be able to keep up haste confidently.
2) Sorcerer? Quicken GFB/BB is a huge DPR boost.

[CTurbo]

I would stick with Wizard. You really want Abjurer 14 and Abjurer 10 is great too!

I would also go EK for sure

[Grear Bylls]

I’m not sure it’s worth it to diverge from your wizard levels. Wizard nets you a fair amount of ways to get advantage and grows that giant ward. The Hold spells and the automatic crits would work excellently with your FT.

Having built a character around gauntlets of ogre power I can say from experience you’ll want all the + to hit you can get to get the GWM working for you. It’s been working great for you in tier 1 but the flame tongue has no pluses and you might find yourself in lots of situations where you’re better off not using the -5/+10. Some quick numbers suggest your DPR goes down using GWM on anything above a 12 AC. Your hits just do too much damage to be worth the risk of missing.

Other things you might want to consider:
1) Warcaster/resilient con. You can’t always count on mobile to avoid getting hit and you’ll want to be able to keep up haste confidently.
2) Sorcerer? Quicken GFB/BB is a huge DPR boost.

Have grabbed hold person, as I really enjoy the spell. Also, I'll only use -5/+10 if I'm likely to hit (yes on zombies, no on Tarrasques).

I'm receiving free advantage on all attacks due to my Hawk Familiar. Help action is quite potent. Doesn't that bump my DPR power to hit at around AC 17 then?

Was already planning on war caster, and I've got proficiency in Con saves from fighter. Sorcerer looks good, but I'll want to try it with paladin eventually. Additionally, 2 points isn't good enough for an adventuring day

[PeteNutButter]

Have grabbed hold person, as I really enjoy the spell. Also, I'll only use -5/+10 if I'm likely to hit (yes on zombies, no on Tarrasques).

I'm receiving free advantage on all attacks due to my Hawk Familiar. Help action is quite potent. Doesn't that bump my DPR power to hit at around AC 17 then?

Was already planning on war caster, and I've got proficiency in Con saves from fighter. Sorcerer looks good, but I'll want to try it with paladin eventually. Additionally, 2 points isn't good enough for an adventuring day

Right so maybe just take one warlock level? AoA is pretty stellar but the invocations don’t do as much for you. Devils sight is amazing, but if you don’t plan on spamming darkness with it, it’s situational. I wouldn’t want to delay spell slot progression for it. As for other invocations, if you really want to disguise self just take it as a wizard spell. It won’t come up often enough IMO to make having it at will justified. You lack the charisma for any decent eldritch blasting invocations. Fiendish vigor is good but won’t stack with AoA. Maybe I’m missing a good one?

[Grear Bylls]

Right so maybe just take one warlock level? AoA is pretty stellar but the invocations don’t do as much for you. Devils sight is amazing, but if you don’t plan on spamming darkness with it, it’s situational. I wouldn’t want to delay spell slot progression for it. As for other invocations, if you really want to disguise self just take it as a wizard spell. It won’t come up often enough IMO to make having it at will justified. You lack the charisma for any decent eldritch blasting invocations. Fiendish vigor is good but won’t stack with AoA. Maybe I’m missing a good one?

Was going to go with beguiling influence as this character is becoming more socially built.

Devils Sight isn't as much for MY spamming of darkness, but my party's spamming of it. This characters main group has two Warlocks (both with devils Sight and darkness), and I want to be useful apart from using my sword to see.

The only benefit of going wizard 16 over 15 is to pick up ASI, a few more spells, and Arcane Ward. I think the other benefits of Warlock 2 are good. Two extra slots for shield per short rest is nice.

I'll probably dip after wizard 8, BM 3, and then finish in wizard

[PeteNutButter]

Was going to go with beguiling influence as this character is becoming more socially built.

Devils Sight isn't as much for MY spamming of darkness, but my party's spamming of it. This characters main group has two Warlocks (both with devils Sight and darkness), and I want to be useful apart from using my sword to see.

The only benefit of going wizard 16 over 15 is to pick up ASI, a few more spells, and Arcane Ward. I think the other benefits of Warlock 2 are good. Two extra slots for shield per short rest is nice.

I'll probably dip after wizard 8, BM 3, and then finish in wizard

Ah, if your party is spamming darkness I’d grab devils sight ASAP.