Fly and haste questions

[Zhepna]

Hi,

it's the first time our group are this high lvl (lvl 9) and I have 2 questions.

1)I can give fly to everybody with my war weaver. We never used fly and I was looking for a easy way to learn how it work because I'll have to explain it to others and we are all beginner.

I found this treat http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-299600.html but it seems complicated. Do you have any advices?

2) I tried to polymorph the whole group but they complain that the form chosen is weak. They were all fighting in melee versus 2 big melee opponents with no special ability so I thought Dire Weasel could be nice with the 1d4 constitution damage. They complained the whole encounter. I found threats on polymorph forms but I was wondering if I was missing something. Does people keep their weapon damage in addition of the new form stat block?

Thanks for the information and have a nice day.

[Daefos]

1)I can give fly to everybody with my war weaver. We never used fly and I was looking for a easy way to learn how it work because I'll have to explain it to others and we are all beginner.

For the duration of the spell, you can move in three dimensions with a movement speed of 60ft. Moving upwards costs double movement while moving downward costs half. When the spell ends, either because the duration expires or it's dispelled, you float safely down at a rate of 60ft per round for 1d6 rounds, falling the rest of the way if you don't reach land or start flying again. It's pretty simple once you get the hang of it.


2) I tried to polymorph the whole group but they complain that the form chosen is weak. They were all fighting in melee versus 2 big melee opponents with no special ability so I thought Dire Weasel could be nice with the 1d4 constitution damage. They complained the whole encounter. I found threats on polymorph forms but I was wondering if I was missing something. Does people keep their weapon damage in addition of the new form stat block?

Gonna leave the bulk of Polymorph advice for someone better versed in the Polymorph rules than I am, but I can definitely state that you do not keep your weapon damage. Unless you turn into a form that can keep using the weapon because, you know, then you still have your weapon and can hit them with it. But turning people into dire weasels? You use the dire weasel's damage.

[sleepyphoenixx]

2) I tried to polymorph the whole group but they complain that the form chosen is weak. They were all fighting in melee versus 2 big melee opponents with no special ability so I thought Dire Weasel could be nice with the 1d4 constitution damage. They complained the whole encounter. I found threats on polymorph forms but I was wondering if I was missing something. Does people keep their weapon damage in addition of the new form stat block?

This handbook (http://minmaxforum.com/index.php?topic=1415) has a handy table that lets you see what you keep, what you lose and what you get with the various forms of shapeshifting.
It's probably better than any explanation i could come up with.

You can only keep using your weapon damage if your new form has hands. Polymorph references Alter Self for that:

When the change occurs, your equipment, if any, either remains worn or held by the new form (if it is capable of wearing or holding the item), or melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.
So ideally you want to change into a humanoid form since it has all the same equipment slots as a normal PC race.

If you evaluate your form choice with those things in mind their complaints make sense. A Dire Weasel can't use weapons, only has 1 attack and 14 Str, so it's a serious downgrade to any melee character. It'll also stop any casters from using their spells.

[Fizban]

Here's the link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/movement.htm#tacticalAerialMovement) to the proper page on tactical aerial movement. Since Fly gives you Good maneuverability, most of the rules don't even matter- you can hover, go straight up and down, or turn as much as you want. Things to remember:

First: Moving upwards "costs double," but that's not actually how the game tracks it. The rules are written mostly for low maneuverability fliers, who can't fly straight up or down. You actually track flight by moving horizontally, and deciding how much you want to adjust your height by sloping up or down. Any maneuverability less than Perfect can only climb half their speed per move action, and when you're climbing your horizontal speed is cut in half. So you make a horizontal move at half speed and choose how much height you want to gain, which can also be no more than half your speed. If you're going down instead, any maneuverability gets to double their speed if they're moving at a downward angle.

If you want to do both in the same turn, you'll probably need to convert that into cost per square instead: any square where you're also going up costs 10', and any square where you're also going down costs only 2.5'- this also means that if you only want to go up a little bit, you only pay for that amount. Thus we return to "upward movement costs double," in the sense that each square where you decide to go up costs double. Note that Average fliers actually have an up angle of 60 degrees, but still have the same limit of half their speed in upward movement, so how does that work? They can go up 3 squares for every 2 they move, but once they've moved up half their speed, any leftover speed from that move action just can't be climbing (more horizontal would be fine).

How does this interact with the Good maneuverability of the Fly spell and that "upwards movement costs double" shortcut? It refers to how Good maneuverability can go up at any angle, so they can go straight up instead of sloping upward while moving horizontally. Going straight up still costs movement though, and if you're going straight up, you're effectively going at half speed in the "up" direction. Technically since you didn't move you can't make a free direction change, so you're still facing the same way unless you pay to turn in place.

Second: Yes, you have to keep track of which direction you're facing when flying, even with Good maneuverability, and no, there are no standard effects for attacking someone from behind in the DMG. There are suggestions in various articles or expansions, but it's not worth bothering unless you've got a good reason. Facing is important because most fliers can't hover, and even Good still has to spend effort changing their direction quickly.

Just like your elevation, turning is done as part of your horizontal movement. As you move, every time you hit a new 5' square you can turn some amount based on maneuverability for free, before you move into the next 5' square (Good gets a 1/4 turn, and Average or lower gets a 1/8 turn). Creatures with Average maneuverability can spend an extra 5' to turn faster, creatures with Good are able to hover and just spend all their movement spinning in place if they want, and of course Perfect does it all for free.

If you want to spend movement to turn in place while your speed is also cut in half/doubled for going up/down, then the DM will have to decide if they want to subtract that before or after the multiplier. After would be simpler, but either way it's not something that should be that important for people using Fly. Since it's possible to go both up and down on the same turn, it's probably better to calculate costs on a per square basis like I said above.

Finally, there's the minimum forward speed. Once again, this is based on the horizontal distance you moved, and once again it doesn't matter for the Good maneuverability of the Fly spell. All it means is that if for some reason an Average or lower flier can't move at least half of their speed horizontally (which can always be done in a single move action), they're not going fast enough to stay in the air and they fall (not a straight line mind you, circling is perfectly fine).

The only way this happens is if something reduces their fly speed, some sort of obstacle is in the way such as the area being too small for them to circle, or if an Average flier tries to climb (reducing their speed) and also spends extra movement on turning (such as because the area is too small), and they also can't take a double move. The Fly spell doesn't care about any of this, so as long as no one tries to put a bad flier underground, you never even have to think about it. If the DM wants to use lower maneuverability monsters underground, they can just give them the Hover feat, which gives the monster a special hover ability that ignores most of the flying rules.

Oh, and there's distance between down and up, but that should be pretty self-explanatory, and still doesn't matter for Good maneuverability/Fly spell.


As for polymorphing the whole party, just don't. Unless you're specifically doing it so everyone can fly or climb or swim or whatever for the cost of the one spell, there's no way every party member is going to be happy turning into the same creature. Polymorph is hailed as super OP, but if you don't know what you're doing then it just takes away most of the character and is actually terrible. Not your choice to make, period.

[Zhepna]

Thanks a lot!

[Deophaun]

I kinda want to know how you polymorphed the whole party; it only affects a single willing creature touched. Did you call a time out in-game to cast it two+ more times? And why were the others willing even after you inadvertently cast baleful polymorph on the first guinea pig?

[torrasque666]

I kinda want to know how you polymorphed the whole party; it only affects a single willing creature touched. Did you call a time out in-game to cast it two+ more times? And why were the others willing even after you inadvertently cast baleful polymorph on the first guinea pig?
He's a War Weaver. They can cast buffs across the whole group with a single casting with their Eldritch Tapestry.

[Deophaun]

He's a War Weaver. They can cast buffs across the whole group with a single casting with their Eldritch Tapestry.
Ah, missed that.

[Bronk]

Next time, try offering Ogre form or something of that nature to the melee guys. I think offering is the way to go to avoid hard feelings.

However! Also, when you can cast it, everyone should remember that the recipient has to be willing, so only those who want to change will be affected. Spell casters or whoever can just say no if they want.