OOTS #315 - The Discussion Thread

[hidufel]

Eh I'll throw my hat in...

I'll have to start checking the boards her more often. this thread seems to have taken on a life of its own almost.

I have to say that my interest in this story is starting to lax, though. Id been an eager fan of the strip , but fell off reaing it sometime around issue 200. I just couldnt stand the posting rates, but the story was funny and great. Coming back, i spent quite a bit of time rereading from issue 1, and now that im caught up... im grinding my teeth again!

Hopefully we can get into some action soon. All this character development is killing me! (not to mention the slow 2 a week posting!)

[Piedmon_Sama]

Just because it's happened before, you shouldn't assume this is going to blow over as soon as Rich updates again and mollifies "the complainers" (there people go polarizing again.)

Individually, there hasn't been anything wrong with any one particular strip. Sure, this one was a little saccharine, but the ending gag got a "heh" from me. That isn't the problem. The problem is that as a whole, they're BORING. Haley can't confess her love to Elan. No, no wait--she tries! She can't do it. No, no, wait...

This is a basic rule of Improv Theater, see. You never vacillate. You never let the dialogue descend to banal back and forth, or that will just KILL your act. "Yes I did," "no you didn't!" "will she? Won't she?" That gets real old, real fast. The rate at which these comics come, like water dripping from a faucet, compounds it further. Now it's like banal back and forth, but with big, James T. Kirkesque pregnant pauses between each "yes I did!" "No you didn't!"

I have read more than a few of the topics in my time and I've never seen as large a number of people putting forward their dissatisfaction of the strip. I think this has been building for a few weeks now, as a significant number of readers who post on the forums feel like their time is being wasted.

[theKOT]

I would like to add to my previous posts that I have been dissatisfied with sequences before, but never for this long. Still, if the strips at the end of this arc are very good, then I will probably end up satisfied with it as a whole.

[WarriorTribble]

Kanashimi, it seems to me that the page 7+ people are a different type of OOTS fan then the pg 1-6.

Imo, Rich has a large enough fan base that I think there's enough people who'd constantly refresh their comic page so they can see the latest issue asap, and comment first and fill 6 pages. These fans will almost always say positive things about the comic.

Page 7+ group is everyone else. They may or may not like the comic, and may or may not be very tactful about it.

[Dirigible]

tags. They are there for as much the beneft of Rich being influenced/ticked off by stuff as other readers who didn't want the story "spoiled" for them. With the tag, they can easily see that a thread may contain information (even speculative) that may reduce their enjoyment of future strips.

Aw c'mon, you gotta admit it's a little silly that if I say 'I bet Haley's attempt to kiss Elan will be interrupted by a lich attack', I gotta attach spoiler tags to it?

That one's about the author, not about the fans.

[Kanashimi]

Kanashimi, it seems to me that the page 7+ people are a different type of OOTS fan then the pg 1-6.

Imo, Rich has a large enough fan base that I think there's enough people who'd constantly refresh their comic page so they can see the latest issue asap, and comment first and fill 6 pages. These fans will almost always say positive things about the comic.

Page 7+ group is everyone else. They may or may not like the comic, and may or may not be very tactful about it.


Wow. I didn't think anyone was going to get my point so quickly. Congratulations and thank you.

I look forward to the first 6 pages of the next comic's dialogue!

[Brother_Hood]

Rich is far from done with this, I'm sure. In my opinion he's far from out of ideas, when you recall his original point was to poke holes in common RPG ideas and silly rules.

I've already given up a strip where the author jumped the shark badly. Rich is nowhere close.

[molonel]

I have not yet made up my mind, and in all likelyhood I will have forgotten this in a week or two (unless you keep it up).

Cool. I agree to forget about this in a week or two, as well.

... unless YOU keep it up.

:D

Troublemaker.



Perhaps you cannot, but I assure you that I can with great ease. ;)

Oh, I'm sure you can. But with great ease? Sorry. I don't believe you.



Some people even like the slow pace.

Some people enjoy watching curling during the Olympics, and drink pilsners. There is simply no accounting for bad taste.



I guess I did not make it explicitly clear, but yes, I was bothered by Moonlover's implication as well. On the other hand, there is a question of degree. And your constant vulgarity bothers me more.

Again, I observe an utter paucity of criticism directed at Moonlover, and a strange correlation between those who disagree with me, and those who take great offense at my "vulgarity."

When your actions match your words, I'll think about believing you. But the lack of consistency is telling.



I agree with you in principle. But I consider disagreement (the thing that discussions thrive on) to be far different from conflict (the thing that destroys otherwise good discussions). Disagreement has a much better connotation than conflict, in my mind, and a much better result. Conflict is unneccessary and unwanted; disagreement is welcomed. :)



To the brim? No. But I do think that ANY is too much.

If you think ANY is too much, doesn't that say more about you than it does me? Especially when you focus on that?



Call me a prude if you will ...

Okay.

Prude.



... but it simply isn't neccessary, especially when the same thing can be derived from starred swear words.

So if I hypothetically called someone a f*cking lame*ss moron who would rather wh*ck off in a fanboy c*rclejerk, you'd be okay with that, but because I use the word "handjob," that offends you?

Yours is a curious morality, my friend.



But you likely don't care what I think. ;)

That's a safe bet.



Please check what you are quoting a little more closely Molonel. I made it very clear that people who are praising the comic also make claims as universal truth, and that I also disapprove of that.

Oh, I assure you, I read what you SAID. But what you DO is ultimately more important than what you SAY. And there is a gap between the two. You've posted 73 times on this forum, saraswati. Have you ever gotten on somebody's case for stating a positive opinion without qualifying it as ONLY their opinion?

I'm willing to bet you haven't.



Granted, I also said that I thought that critics did that more often than praisers, but I stated that was my own opinion on the subject. My post does not say what you claim it says. That's a clarification.

Let me be blunt. What you're doing is trying to shut down criticism by asking critics to pepper their posts with statements like "Now, this is ONLY my opinion!" or "I'm not speaking for anyone else!" or somesuch. You SAY you don't think people with positive comments should do that, either. But you didn't jump into this discussion to chastise someone for posting a positive opinion without that sort of ridiculous and unnecessary qualification.

Don't TELL me that you're consistent. Instead, ACT consistent. Because words are cheap.

[Lilly]

The Fairy Modmother: First, watch your language. Second, insulting each other and overly rampant insulting will not be acctable on these boards ever. So stop it. Now.

[HypnoticMonk]

Cool. I agree to forget about this in a week or two, as well.

... unless YOU keep it up.

:D

Troublemaker.


Oh, I'm sure you can. But with great ease? Sorry. I don't believe you.


Some people enjoy watching curling during the Olympics, and drink pilsners. There is simply no accounting for bad taste.


Again, I observe an utter paucity of criticism directed at Moonlover, and a strange correlation between those who disagree with me, and those who take great offense at my "vulgarity."

When your actions match your words, I'll think about believing you. But the lack of consistency is telling.



If you think ANY is too much, doesn't that say more about you than it does me? Especially when you focus on that?


Okay.

Prude.


So if I hypothetically called someone a f*cking lame*ss moron who would rather wh*ck off in a fanboy c*rclejerk, you'd be okay with that, but because I use the word "handjob," that offends you?

Yours is a curious morality, my friend.


That's a safe bet.


Oh, I assure you, I read what you SAID. But what you DO is ultimately more important than what you SAY. And there is a gap between the two. You've posted 73 times on this forum, saraswati. Have you ever gotten on somebody's case for stating a positive opinion without qualifying it as ONLY their opinion?

I'm willing to bet you haven't.


Let me be blunt. What you're doing is trying to shut down criticism by asking critics to pepper their posts with statements like "Now, this is ONLY my opinion!" or "I'm not speaking for anyone else!" or somesuch. You SAY you don't think people with positive comments should do that, either. But you didn't jump into this discussion to chastise someone for posting a positive opinion without that sort of ridiculous and unnecessary qualification.

Don't TELL me that you're consistent. Instead, ACT consistent. Because words are cheap.

I like pudding, how about you? :D

[6079smithw]

It seems as though there are a few major logical flaws with arguments being presented here.

1.) It's not right that nobody complains about the innummerable "Wow that's great!" posts and people get mad about "Grr you suck!" posts.
Well, obviously there's going to be an overall positive on these threads, because anyone who never liked the Giant's sense of humor isn't going to be here in the first place. Therefore, there is something of an assumption that each strip will be good.
Thus, you don't really need any evidence to back up "Wow that's great!", whereas dissenting opinions need a bit more; if you were going to assume they'd be bad, you wouldn't be reading them.

Of course, most of the dissenters do have specific complaints, but the burden of proof is on them, so they require more evidence.

2.) All of the readers used to like every strip, but now only some of them do!
Well, that's possible, but the overall readership has grown. It's easy to please 99 out of 100 people with a very specifically niche oriented strip. Now, the comic has changed tone somewhat, and this seems to have brought a significantly different fanbase- in other words, he may only be pleasing 20,000 out of 30,000 with a given strip, but the tastes of the fanbase have diversified, such that pleasing the vast majority of them has become more difficult.

[ZacK88]

I like pudding, how about you? :D



Aye.. Its like my mum says, "Pass the bean dip" ;)

[HypnoticMonk]

Aye.. Its like my mum says, "Pass the bean dip" ;)
Well it was either that or "Soooo.. how about those Mets?"

[Shadow_of_Light]

Do you feel that comments on the strip should be limited only to praise?


I am not averse to constructive criticism.

[Felinoid]

Cool. I agree to forget about this in a week or two, as well.

... unless YOU keep it up.

:D

Troublemaker.

Okay.

Prude.

That's a safe bet.

LOL. ;D Though I doubt it was your intention, I begin to like you more.


Oh, I'm sure you can. But with great ease? Sorry. I don't believe you.

Well, there is the whole "don't think about a pink elephant" thing, but to be honest I don't think I even could imagine what you describe. Which is a rare lapse in my imagination.


Again, I observe an utter paucity of criticism directed at Moonlover, and a strange correlation between those who disagree with me, and those who take great offense at my "vulgarity."

When your actions match your words, I'll think about believing you. But the lack of consistency is telling.

Ah, of course. Well, you see, I only believe in constructive criticism (at least on the internet where I can choose my words with more care. And TBH, there's really nothing for me to say to Moonlover. There's no way to make the concept "better", because it is flawed at the very core. I am also hoping beyond hope that it was meant tongue-in-cheek, as I would not like to think that someone would actually mean something that *ahem* ...silly. ;) You, OTOH, have the problem of vulgarity, which is easily fixable if you try. :)


If you think ANY is too much, doesn't that say more about you than it does me? Especially when you focus on that?

As I said in the paragraph above, I focus on it because that is your only problem. Your arguments were well-argued, your points valid, etc. Still wondering about the attitude with which you made them, but that's likely more a function of your strong personality than an intent to troll.


So if I hypothetically called someone a [hmm hmm hmm], you'd be okay with that, but because I use the word [word], that offends you?

Yours is a curious morality, my friend.

Mine is a curious insanity... :P For the record, you lost me at around "who would rather..." with the vulgarity. Before that is fine for vulgarity, but the directing of it makes it an insult, which would be a different reason to object. :) And yes, I do divide these things up a bit unneccessarily. :P

[Kanashimi]

Well it was either that or "Soooo.. how about those Mets?"


Pudding is good, but I prefer minor league baseball.

Boy, I bet the next comic is going to be great!

;)

[Django]

Pudding is good, but I prefer minor league baseball.

Boy, I bet the next comic is going to be great!

;)

I second that notion!

Mayhap our bosom chum Belkar will delight us with more of his delightfully misanthropic hijinx.
Is some wanton stabbing too much to hope, nay, to dream for?

[chigger]

*sniff sniff*

I smell a massive quantity of slinging sausages.
::)
Typical.

[rtaylor]

I am not averse to constructive criticism.

Remember, constructive criticism includes positive as well as negative comments - you may be making the error of assuming criticism is negative (that is the common use, but by attaching "constructive" to it you are invoking the more proper use). So if you want only constructive critcism, that actually would put an end to the stream of "wow, great strip" posts that we see here, and require more substance in the good as well as the bad (though honestly the bad usually does have more substance than just the plain "this stinks").

Put me in the camp that thinks the strip has declined, largely due to pacing. The strip hasn't had a solid plot arc since issue #120, but rather a drawn out segue into the next arc that will happen if the action ever leaves the Azure City. I'm afraid I've lost patience with the drawn-out nature of what, in a novel, I'd consider a pause between major stories.

Not all is bad - the strip does still make me laugh on occasion, and when the action has gotten back to Zykon, I've usually liked it. But I feel like the strip is suffer an extended creative dry spell.

I admit the late updating getting to me as well - I have to view it as unprofessional, free or not. There are webcartoonist who produce a buffer to avoid late updates, and it's my opinion that that is the better way to go.

Russ

[General_Ghoul]

Felinoid, I am surprised to see you here. This is a 3.5 comic, how can you stand it?

[molonel]

LOL. ;D Though I doubt it was your intention, I begin to like you more.

Aww, shucks. I better pile on the insults, then.



Ah, of course. Well, you see, I only believe in constructive criticism (at least on the internet where I can choose my words with more care. And TBH, there's really nothing for me to say to Moonlover. There's no way to make the concept "better", because it is flawed at the very core. I am also hoping beyond hope that it was meant tongue-in-cheek, as I would not like to think that someone would actually mean something that *ahem* ...silly. ;) You, OTOH, have the problem of vulgarity, which is easily fixable if you try. :)

See, we can't agree, here. You can't have disagreement without conflict. You are trying to draw a hairline distinction that does not exist. Mesage boards thrive on conflict. Fanboys sit around and disagree about which comic was better, and maybe - once in a while - reluctantly concede that comic X was slightly less perfect than comic Y. Maybe you'd call it "disagreement" in the same way that Unitarians sit around, sipping weak tea, and talk about world affairs.

But those discussions never go anywhere. And I think we all know that. Strong opinions meet with strong opinions. In the clash, things can happen. If all you have is a couple of people saying, "After you!" and the other person replies, "No, sir, after YOU!" then nobody is ever going to walk through the door.



Still wondering about the attitude with which you made them, but that's likely more a function of your strong personality than an intent to troll.

Shhh! Don't tell anyone.



And yes, I do divide these things up a bit unneccessarily. :P

Aha! See? I knew if we kept at it, we'd find a common ground!

I agree with you.

[Shadow_of_Light]

Remember, constructive criticism includes positive as well as negative comments - you may be making the error of assuming criticism is negative (that is the common use, but by attaching "constructive" to it you are invoking the more proper use). So if you want only constructive critcism, that actually would put an end to the stream of "wow, great strip" posts that we see here, and require more substance in the good as well as the bad (though honestly the bad usually does have more substance than just the plain "this stinks").

Correct. I like some reasoning/explanation behind what people think works or doesn't work. It encourages growth. Just saying 'It sucks' or 'I hate it' doesn't help anything or anyone. But I also dislike criticism that makes it sound like the critic speaks for everyone and that his/her voice is the voice of ultimate authority.

[SabreGuy]

Boy, I bet the next comic is going to be great!

Agreed! I can't wait to see if those winged American bison get their comeuppance!

[molonel]

I guess I am the person who you are referring to, so I will do you the courtesy of responding to you directly. I was suggesting that continuing to spend time on something that is annoying you when it is supposed to be a harmless diversion (at worst) or a thing that makes your day better (at best) is not a good or a healthy thing.

So, in other words, if I come in with heaping words of praise, that's okay. Because spending time on something that I enjoy is worthwhile. But if I no longer enjoy it, I shouldn't spend any time on it, and spending the same amount of time to post my opinion is unhealthy?

Let me propose an alternate opinion for you. When I have enjoyed something for a long time - and I've been reading this comic since the early 100s - I think that expressing dissatisfaction is a good and healthy thing, too. Especially when that opinion acts as a catharsis for others who share that opinion.

You, and others, obviously feel that responding to my "negative" opinions is a worthwhile way to spend your time, and you've obviously spent less time reading my posts than I've spent reading this comic.



Essentially, it's to hang out in a relaxed atmosphere with people with whom I share at least one common interest.

By relaxed, do you mean that nobody should disagree strongly because that might interfere with your enjoyment of the place? Even though your participation in any given thread is controlled completely by you? Because we all share an interest in the same comic, here. I like OotS. It's the only web comic I've read consitently over the last year.



However criticism that doesn't have a point to it is ultimately not going to get you anywhere, and frankly all it does is annoy the other people who don't agree with you.

My criticism most certainly has a point. You just don't like what my point is.



I don't come here to see someone say over and over, that the strip sucks, use borderline profanity and be insulting to everyone who has been enjoying the strips recently. Calling someone a fanboy and using the terms you have been using is an insult: make no mistake!

Oh, so now it's BORDERLINE profanity. Funny how the line keeps moving back, and the tail grows with the telling, yes?

But, basically what you're saying is, you come here to relax, and you don't appreciate people who don't praise every comic strip to the stars. Because I can tell why I think the recent comic strips suck, and you can dump a pound of sugar over what I've said, but it doesn't change either the opinion itself, or its validity.

And if someone doesn't want to be called a fanboy - a term which I've applied to nobody in particular - then they should allow for disagreement. And if someone is TRULY offended by insults or alleged bad behavior, then they should be offended consistently.

You haven't been.



When I suggested that you take a step away from here for a few weeks, it was not to say you should not read the message boards, but rather that it might be a good idea to get away from the whole comic for a while, because you (and some of the other posters as well) seem not to be enjoying reading it. When I really don't like something that I spend my free time with, I tend to not keep doing it. That's what I'm saying.

The point is, I'm NOT reading it very often right now. I went from every other day to every three days, then every five days, to once a week. The frustration finally built up to the point where I said, "Enough!" and I felt compelled to say something.

I've done exactly what you've suggested. I *like* this comic, and it's been going downhill.

A lot of people have entered the thread to agree with me. Should they leave, too?



We get the fact that you don't like the strip. We get the fact that you think anyone who does is a fanboy. I'm not here to insult you as a person, but I really suggest that you take a step back from what you're doing and consider if you would do the same thing in person that you're writing here.

There is a link earlier in this thread to another forum. While I don't suggest most people go there, because it is a substantially different environment and one where folks with tender ears might become offended, there are a lot of people there who know me personally.

Trust me. I'm dialing it back bigtime in this place.

I defy you to show me where I said that anyone who disagrees with me is a fanboy. But some of the stuff in this thread just made me roll my eyes.



It is a comic strip at the end of the day. A funny one on most days, but no one should get as ticked off about as you have been.

I think you're the one who is ticked off, my friend. When I get angry, you'll know.

[molonel]

Okay, so I have to admit that sequentially reading posts on the comic anywhere after about page 7 or 8 is really an interesting study in human psychology. Before about 7, everyone is talking about what they like about the comic, what was funny, or just saying "woot first page." Then as people get a little more bored with re-re-re-re-reading the comic, they find little things to pick on about it, or compain that there isn't a new one, or compain about any number of things regarding this free comic. This is absolutely not to insult or offend anyone, but everyone who has been complaining about OOTS, go back and look at this and any other long topics about the comics, especially when Rich has been "late."

The problem is, I wrote my reply - which generated so many responses - after I read this most recent comic for the first time. I'm not finding little things to pick at, or complain because it's not a NEW comic, or complain about any number of things regarding this so-called "free" comic.

Your theory is pretty much bogus.



It's really quite a fascinating look into the degeneration of politeness as a society. So, this is a very serious sociological question that I'm thinking of writing a paper on... To anyone who has been griping lately, or has posted something negative about the strip AFTER posting something positive, would you please IM me and tell me if similar things happen in your real-life relationships? I'm talking friends, family, SOs. how things start off great, and they're the best person in the world, and then familiarity breeds contempt. I want to know if this really is just a phenomenom that happens when people feel more free and secure when behind a computer screen rather than face to face.

In one fell swoop, you just reminded me why social science folks and philosophy majors never get along in college.

[The Giant]

First, the comic will be up in 1-2 hours. It ended up being unexpectedly double-length.

Second, everyone is entitled to their opinion, positive or negative. They are also entitled to read other comics if they don't like this one, with no hard feelings from me.

Third, there has already been a moderator warning and the attacks on each other haven't stopped, so when I finish the comic, there will probably be people getting warnings and/or bannings.

[Felinoid]

Felinoid, I am surprised to see you here. This is a 3.5 comic, how can you stand it?
Oh, I manage. I'm mostly in it for the storytelling and regular jokes, not the rules jokes. (Though I admit that laughing at silly rules, whatever the game, isn't hard for me to do. :P )

[theKOT]

I would like to say that any constructive criticism posted here is highly unlikely to have any affect on the comic. The Giant doesn't really change much due to readership. My posts of criticism are just venting, don't dwell on them too long.

[Maelstrom]

Wow,

I come back from a week and a half vacation and get...this.

This has certainly been an interesting 10 pages or so of reading, and might I say, I have found this post far more engaging than the comics that I have missed. So, yeah, toss me on the wagon with the people that will be checking for the comic less and less often and certainly the chance of my buying the 3rd book (to go along with my other two) has greatly diminished -- I can always pick up my copy of Ulysses by James Joyce if I want to be put to sleep...

Agreed with theKOT, I'm sure most of what is said here in honest critique is as water to a ducks back...just a pity that the above red text by theGiant had to be posted...personally I'm not seeing *any* attacks continue after the Fairy Godmother gave her warning, only some interesting converstaion that was brought on by the latest comic ( I can see the warning for the borderline pg-13 language, which, according to the MPAA, would actually fall under the PG-13 guideline...).

But I digress. As this is supposed to be commentary on the comic at hand, my opinion is well...bleh. Quite unmemorable.

[The Giant]

I would like to say that any constructive criticism posted here is highly unlikely to have any affect on the comic. The Giant doesn't really change much due to readership. My posts of criticism are just venting, don't dwell on them too long.


This is very true. I actually encourage people to discuss what they think of the comic--as long as the Rules of Posting are followed--but no one should expect anything they say to be taken to heart by me. First, it's unlikely that I will read it at all. And second, I don't alter the comic based on what other say. I don't pay attention to criticism OR praise; I simply write the comic for how I think it should go. I leave it to the individual reader to decide whether that makes the comic good or bad.

However, I will say that the romance sequence is no more than 4 strips from being done, so hang in there.

[molonel]

I can always pick up my copy of Ulysses by James Joyce if I want to be put to sleep...

Dude, you're pulling out the big guns now, aren't you? Even _I_ didn't mention the U-word.

I really don't think that was called for.

... :D



Just a pity that the above red text by theGiant had to be posted...personally I'm not seeing *any* attacks continue after the Fairy Godmother gave her warning...

That's because there weren't any attacks after the warning. Tongue in cheek humor, yes. Attacks, no.

[brinoch]

I think the character's development is the reason OOTS is as enjoyable as it is. Despite my lack of posts, I've been reading the comic from the beginning and only recently posted anything at all. Frankly, I've been enjoying this segment. I like the juxtaposition of the three threads and the story keeps me coming back for more.

Keep up the good work, Giant.

[Ted_Stryker]

It seems as though there are a few major logical flaws with arguments being presented here.

1.) It's not right that nobody complains about the innummerable "Wow that's great!" posts and people get mad about "Grr you suck!" posts.
Well, obviously there's going to be an overall positive on these threads, because anyone who never liked the Giant's sense of humor isn't going to be here in the first place. Therefore, there is something of an assumption that each strip will be good.
Thus, you don't really need any evidence to back up "Wow that's great!", whereas dissenting opinions need a bit more; if you were going to assume they'd be bad, you wouldn't be reading them.

Of course, most of the dissenters do have specific complaints, but the burden of proof is on them, so they require more evidence.
Ah, if we're going to go the logical fallacy route, this is a classic example of The Fallacy of Division (http://www.fallacyfiles.org/division.html).

Being a fan of Rich's work as a whole (as I undoubtedly am, make no mistake) doesn't mean the default position reverts to approval for any given strip. Each strip must be judged on its own merits.

I'll make a couple of analogies to fantasy lit to illustrate.

One of the really cool things about the Lord of the Rings is that it reads like history unfolding. There are many places where there are allusions to deeds past, and the plans of the characters are essentially the logical and necessary continuation of this history.

Now consider The Crayons of Time arc, perhaps the watershed moment for OotS. This is when the sense that the OotS are players in the unfolding of history starts, and it adds a lot to the depth of the story. No doubt many great (and hilarious!) deeds will follow as a consequence of this backstory.

Consider also the characterization of the Order of the Scribble in the final two crayon strips. Between these four events -- the meeting of Lirian and Soon, the confrontation with The Snarl that results in Kraagor's death, the reactions at Kraagor's monument, and the fight that led to their breakup -- we learn a lot about the personalities that made up that group. It was brilliantly done, IMHO, and very economically done as well.

Conversely, and I dread to make this comparison, I can't shake the feeling that the last few strips exhibit the glimmerings of precursors to a terminal case of Robert Jordan-itis. I think things are still a LONG ways away from that, but a lot of what has been shown during the dates seem a bit like one of Jordan's page-long descriptions of some woman's outfit. Everything after "Hiding is my best skill" at the end of #311, as I see it, falls into this category.

YMMV, or course.

[Arian]

You can't have disagreement without conflict. You are trying to draw a hairline distinction that does not exist.

.... That perspective must make your personal relationships turbulent, to say the least.

So every time you view a matter differently from someone else, you belittle the person?


But those discussions never go anywhere. And I think we all know that.

On the contrary. Discussions where people can disagree without conflict are the only sort of discussion that can "go anywhere".

Conflict polarises and petrifies opinion, it doesn't enable change.

[Bozidar]

First, the comic will be up in 1-2 hours. It ended up being unexpectedly double-length.Whew!! I was about to start a "Is The Giant Dead!?!?!" thread :)

[Archaelos]

On the contrary. Discussions where people can disagree without conflict are the only sort of discussion that can "go anywhere".

Conflict polarises and petrifies opinion, it doesn't enable change.

Doesn't disagreement, by necessity, entail conflict? Opinion A differs from Opniion B in such a way as to render it impossible to hold both Opinion A and B simultaneously? Perhaps you can give an example of "disagreement without conflict" to help illustrate your point.

On the broader picture, I've not seen a problem with the last few strips. TBH, I've rather liked them, but then I like slow movies and ponderous novels as well. I think the slow pace of posting does contribute to the slow-motion sensation of a suspended plot, and I can certainly see where the detractors are coming from in their critique. Missed and obviated posting times certainly add to the accumulated frustration, accenuating pacing problems beyond their normal, marginal scope.

Certainly, I don't feel that citing problems with a single episode, or even sequence of episodes constitutes a wholesale attack on the strip itself. On the contrary, it implies a meaningful involvement and interest in the storyline. Without such involvement, feelings whether positive or negative would not be forthcoming. The ability to inspire that sort of emotion is the core and crux of art. Sad that so many artists and artistic supporters fail to recognize that negative reactions bespeak every bit as much as any positive reaction would.

And now, before I get too wordy (or is it too late?), I'll just add my continued interest in the developing plot of OoTS, both romantic and fantastic, heroic and comic.

[Shadow_of_Light]

First, the comic will be up in 1-2 hours. It ended up being unexpectedly double-length.

Even if you don't pay attention to praise etc, I'm still going to say I'm looking forward to it. ;)

[The Giant]

On second thought, I'm just going to lock this for now. There still will be warnings, but people can bitch or gush in the new thread instead.

(incidentally, the "Still attacks after warning" comment was a goof on my part; I forgot this forum displays posts in the "Topic Summary" below the posting box in order, NOT reverse order like every other forum I belong to. Oops.)