OOTS optimization challenge!

[MultitudeMan]

OK, Playgrounders, I apologise if this has been done before, but I had an idea for an optimisation challenge relating to the Order of the Stick.

The idea is that you get to change the build of any or all of the members of the Order to increase their effectiveness, with the caveat that your changes can't seriously affect the plot of the webcomic so far. I'm using http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?545476-Class-and-Level-Geekery-XV-What-s-the-Damage-of-a-Thrown-Pineapple, page 1, as the most reliable indication of the Order's current builds.

You can only use source books listed in the FAQ of that page, as they're the only ones we know exist in the OOTSverse.

No plot changes means you can't change any of their mental stats, as that would cause a personality change. You could swap physical stats if you wanted (I'm assuming they rolled stats rather than using a point build, as I can't see any point system that could account for Roy's stats being so much higher than V's overall), but reducing their CON could have worrying consequences for some of their big battles, for instance.

Feats are up for grabs, but some feats have been plot critical (e.g. Ranged Pin might seem weak for Haley, but if she hadn't had it in http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0477.html, Roy's body would probably have been lost for ever!).

Spells known are up for grabs, with the plot-critical caveat understood. It's tempting to fundamentally change Elan's spell list, but his illusions have sometimes saved the day.

Equipment is a tricky one. There clearly are magic shops in various locations, but you'd need a strong justification to select something weird that hasn't been seen belonging to anyone in the strip so far. Also, no swapping out Roy's Sword for a greataxe or anything similarly horrific :smallwink: .

Have fun!

[Peelee]

Easy. Elan => Elanucalicus (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0127.html). A name more befitting a mighty wizard like he.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Find a set of the stat improving books and give one to each character, with the proviso they can't use it to bump their primary asset.

Roy's is STR, so we'll give him the one that boosts DEX (and a ranged weapon, for crying out loud)

Haley's is DEX, but we'll give her the one that boosts STR (for greater looting opportunities)

Vaarsuvius' is INT, but the CON one allows for more HPs, a better Fort save and helps with the Concentration checks

Elan's is CHA, but we'll give him the INT book (just to see what skills he buys)

Belkar is probably CON (how else can he still be alive?), but gets the WIS boost for one reason: Mr. Scruffy+Magic Fang=HILARITY!

Durkon is WIS personified at this point, but a CHA boost helps with the turning and maybe makes his accent a little more consistent

[Sylian]

Find a set of the stat improving books and give one to each character, with the proviso they can't use it to bump their primary asset.Roy: Constitution, he's going to be really tough.
Haley: Strength, someone had to take it, and at least she'll be a bit better at melee combat.
Vaarsuvius: Dexterity, better Initiative, better AC and better at hitting with touch spells (such as Disintigrate and Scorching Ray)? Not bad.
Elan: Intelligence, his skill list is really good and having a few more skill points could help.
Belkar: Wisdom, being able to cast some Ranger spells would be useful, oh, and being better at tracking and Will saves is good too.
Durkon: Charisma, better Turn Undead and a bit better at Diplomacy checks? Not bad.

Some notes: Wisdom clearly benefits Belkar the most (aside from Durkon, who cannot take it), so that's a given. Belkar would benefit from most stat boosts though. Charisma clearly benefits Durkon the most (aside from Elan), although he would also benefit from Constitution, Strength, and Dexterity. That leaves Dexterity, Constitution, Strength, and Intelligence. Vaarsuvius cannot take Intelligence and doesn't benefit from Strength, so it's either Dexterity or Constitution, both good choices, although no other character aside from Haley would benefit as much from Dexterity, so V seems like a good for for that. That leaves Roy, Haley, and Elan. Elan wouldn't really benefit much from Strength at all, due to his Dashing Swordsman levels, so he either gets Constitution or Intelligence. Roy cannot take Strength so Haley gets Strength. Roy's skill list is rather poor while Elan's is not, so it makes sense to give Intelligence to Elan and thus Constitution to Roy.

[Particle_Man]

Well if penny-pinching Eugene would spare the cash, then he could let his son Roy go to Warblade school. :smallsmile:

[Emanick]

Well if penny-pinching Eugene would spare the cash, then he could let his son Roy go to Warblade school. :smallsmile:

Ph.D programs are pricy! I can’t blame any parent who refrains from helping out with those. And this from a guy who would love to get a Ph.D one day.

[woweedd]

Find a set of the stat improving books and give one to each character, with the proviso they can't use it to bump their primary asset.
In order:
I'm not sure Roy needs stat boosting, but i guess i'll go with DEX for him.
Haley could use a CON boost: She can dodge most attacks, but on the rare occasions she gets hit, she gets hit hard.
V...Oh me, oh my. V seems to have bottomed out on pretty much every stat except Intelligence. Weak, uncharismatic, and, judging by their shockingly poor decision making, probably not too good Wisdom either. If I could, i'd give them every book except INT, but I guess i'll go for STR, if only because I need the mental stats for the others.
Elan: Intelligence. Elan's build is already the best of the party, but a Bard can never have enough skill points, and this may allow him to use his primary asset more effectively
Belker: Wisdom. Spells!
Durkon: Charisma. His Turn Undead will be more effective, and maybe having more force-of-personality will make it easier for him to deal with the vampirism.

[MultitudeMan]

Stat boosts is a good start, but does anyone want to try anything more controversial, like a feat respeccing without causing plot continuity breakdown?

[Peelee]

Stat boosts is a good start, but does anyone want to try anything more controversial, like a feat respeccing without causing plot continuity breakdown?

Or making the Bard a Wizard?

[Particle_Man]

A feat that duplicated the GURPS advantage "Common Sense" might be nice. It basically causes the GM (DM) to say "Are you sure you want to do that?" to give a player a chance to reconsider before doing something foolish.

In effect, the Oracle did something like that with Roy "Are you sure that is the question you want to ask?" but alas, Roy outsmarted himself there.

[MultitudeMan]

Or making the Bard a Wizard?

Yeah, that's a little more extreme than I would consider legitimate.
Plus, Elanicalicus has already been referenced, and Elan concluded that "being a wizard kind of sounds like a downer" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0128.html), so I think he's given you the answer there anyway!

[Peelee]

Yeah, that's a little more extreme than I would consider legitimate.
Plus, Elanicalicus has already been referenced, and Elan concluded that "being a wizard kind of sounds like a downer" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0128.html), so I think he's given you the answer there anyway!

How so? He would still have his Bardic knowledge and mastery of narrative, he would still be able to prestige class with Julio Scoundrel, he would still be able to cast his minor healing and wands, he would have access to only fairly low-level Wizard spells (many of which were already choices for Bard spells, and certainly wouldn't outshine them, while he would gain extra utility and flexibility), so nothing plot-wise would really change.

As far as Elan deciding to continue as a Bard, I thought the entire purpose of this thread was to suggest changes. The change here would be Elan not saying that.

[MultitudeMan]

How so? He would still have his Bardic knowledge and mastery of narrative, he would still be able to prestige class with Julio Scoundrel, he would still be able to cast his minor healing and wands, he would have access to only fairly low-level Wizard spells (many of which were already choices for Bard spells, and certainly wouldn't outshine them, while he would gain extra utility and flexibility), so nothing plot-wise would really change.

As far as Elan deciding to continue as a Bard, I thought the entire purpose of this thread was to suggest changes. The change here would be Elan not saying that.

Ah, I think I may have misunderstood. I suppose a level or two of Wizard instead of Bard might not have affected much, but if he'd continuously leveled in Wizard from http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0126.html, then he wouldn't have had access to Mass Cure Light Wounds in the recent fight vs. unDurkon; that was pretty important in thinning the ranks of the vampire spawn. He'd also lose Song of Freedom if he took more than 2 levels of Wizard! He'd be Bard 9 / Wizard 5 / Dashing Swordsman 1 in your retcon, I suppose. With INT below 10 when he started in Wizard, could he even cast level 3 spells when he hit Wizard 5?

[Rogar Demonblud]

No, that would require INT 13 and by definition gaining five levels can't get you 4 or more every-fourth-level stat bumps.

[Kish]

With Int below 10, levels in wizard would be almost entirely useless to Elan. He could have a very weak familiar. And potentially metamagic feats which he could use for his bard spells.

[Peelee]

In my defense, he would also have a significantly better name.

[MultitudeMan]

No, that would require INT 13 and by definition gaining five levels can't get you 4 or more every-fourth-level stat bumps.

Well, he could always use a stat-book as already suggested, and maybe hunt down a magic item that boots INT, but yeah, if he's starting at INT 6, say, it would be a struggle to even get to 12. Unless he persuades V to lend him the +4 headband V wears :smallbiggrin: .

[MultitudeMan]

In my defense, he would also have a significantly better name.

I dunno, wouldn't everyone just shorten it to Elan anyway? Or would they follow precedent, and call him E?

[zimmerwald1915]

With Int below 10, levels in wizard would be almost entirely useless to Elan. He could have a very weak familiar. And potentially metamagic feats which he could use for his bard spells.
And Scribe Scroll!

[Peelee]

I dunno, wouldn't everyone just shorten it to Elan anyway? Or would they follow precedent, and call him E?

Irrelevant. In any event, he'll always be Elanicalicus in my heart.