I'm Out

[Derpaligtr]

I'm out.

Don't want to deal with this site anymore :smallsigh:

[Beechgnome]

Their sticky shields are a real pain the rear too, particularly for our monk who couldn't 'drop' his fists once they got stuck. A memorable encounter.

[Derpaligtr]

Their sticky shields are a real pain the rear too, particularly for our monk who couldn't 'drop' his fists once they got stuck. A memorable encounter.

Ha!

Hopefully the monk gained a new weapon... Kuo-toa punching glove!

[Mith]

Sent my table against a group of these felloes. One player collected a bunch of sjields and used them as frisbees to stick to a giant crab's feet to trip it up.

[Unoriginal]

Kuo-toa archpriest are so insane that they cast up to 5th level spells. Not because they spent years leveling up... But because their insane worship of their deity allows them to. Hell, it isn't even the deity that gives them spells, it isn't innate, it's just pure lack of sanity that lets them cast spells.

Not quite correct. It's their fervent worship and dedication in a concept that grants them power, just like some other Clerics. It's just that the concept they're worshiping is through the lense of a made-up god.


Their sticky shields are a real pain the rear too, particularly for our monk who couldn't 'drop' his fists once they got stuck. A memorable encounter.

Kuo-toa have this going for them: it's hard to make them not memorable.

Maybe if for some reason you treat them as generic fishmen...

[Derpaligtr]

Not quite correct. It's their fervent worship and dedication in a concept that grants them power, just like some other Clerics. It's just that the concept they're worshiping is through the lense of a made-up god.



Kuo-toa have this going for them: it's hard to make them not memorable.

Maybe if for some reason you treat them as generic fishmen...

Page 198 of the DMG


God Makers. Kuo-toa worship gods of the own insane creation, but if enough kuo-tao believe that a god is real, the energy of their collective subconscious can cause that god to manifest as a physical entity. The form a kuo-toa god takes depends on the inspiration for its divine image, and is usually random or nonsensical.

One of the most revered gods of the kuo-toa is Blibdoolpoolp the Sea Mother, who takes the form of a female human with a crayfish head, a crayfish's claws, and an articulated shell covering her shoulders...



Underlined by me.

Kuo-tao make gods come to life.

They may not be powerful gods, but they are given a physical entity and the form is considered their divine image (whatever a deity wishes to look like is its divine image). They have done this more than once as the forms for their gods are usually random or nonsensical.

Kuo-toa don't pray to a deity and ask for spells. Their insanity gives them spells and it's the archpriest that decides which Kuo-toa 'Whip' gains spellcasting and if they ever want to take it away. The deity doesn't give the spells to the Archpriest or the Whip. Even if the deity did... The power to give spells would just be coming from the Kuo-toa in the first place.

Technically, I don't see why a Kuo-toa couldn't give this spell casting ability to a non-Kuo-toa.

That's a level of insanity that I just absolutely love. 5e Kuo-toa might be my favorite monster in the manual.


===

So I have an idea for some character backgrounds specific to a Kuo-toa campaign I really want to run now XD

[Naanomi]

In all fairness; *all* races can create Gods just by believing in them... Kuo-Toa just take a few less than normal

[Derpaligtr]

In all fairness; *all* races can create Gods just by believing in them... Kuo-Toa just take a few less than normal

From the fluff, it seems like they make more than normal?

[Naanomi]

From the fluff, it seems like they make more than normal?
Well yeah, normally it takes thousands of people (at least) to create a God ex nihilo (or more commonly, to raise an existing being to divinity)... that Kuo-Toa can do at least part of the process with just a few dozen is remarkable

[Unoriginal]

Page 198 of the DMG



Underlined by me.

Kuo-tao make gods come to life.

They may not be powerful gods, but they are given a physical entity and the form is considered their divine image (whatever a deity wishes to look like is its divine image). They have done this more than once as the forms for their gods are usually random or nonsensical.

Yes, nothing that I've said contradict that. I think you misread what I wrote.



Kuo-toa don't pray to a deity and ask for spells. Their insanity gives them spells and it's the archpriest that decides which Kuo-toa 'Whip' gains spellcasting and if they ever want to take it away. The deity doesn't give the spells to the Archpriest or the Whip. Even if the deity did...

This, however, is incorrect, and you literally quoted one of the part that shows the fact.

The Kuo-toa create gods. Then the intense belief/worship of the Archpriest in those created gods give them the power.

[QUOTE]Kuo-toa archpriests are surrounded by fanatical devotees of their faith. The archpriest of a kuo-toa domain demands that all its subjects worship a specific god. An archpriest's mad belief in its god is so fervent that it manifests the powers of a high cleric

Yes, they're so mad they create gods, but then it's the fervent belief they have in those gods which grant them power.

It's not just insanity = power. It's insanity + mind powers = gods----> belief in gods = power.



The power to give spells would just be coming from the Kuo-toa in the first place.

Just like any other deity.




Technically, I don't see why a Kuo-toa couldn't give this spell casting ability to a non-Kuo-toa.

There is no reason why they couldn't. It's not very different from granting a Boon.

Unless you consider that you need the Kuo-toa madness for the power-bestowing to work. But that's not as fun, so eh.


Well yeah, normally it takes thousands of people (at least) to create a God ex nihilo (or more commonly, to raise an existing being to divinity)... that Kuo-Toa can do at least part of the process with just a few dozen is remarkable

Funnily enough, while the Kuo-toa are the best at creating gods ex nihilo, the Yuan-ti are probably the people who have the most individuals reach apotheosis, or at least the most frequently.

[JackPhoenix]

It's not just insanity = power. It's insanity + mind powers = gods----> belief in gods = power.

They're basically like Orks from W40k: if enough of them believe in a thing, the thing happens because their natural psychic powers. Red wunz really go fasta' if there's enough Orks around.

[Naanomi]

Funnily enough, while the Kuo-toa are the best at creating gods ex nihilo, the Yuan-ti are probably the people who have the most individuals reach apotheosis, or at least the most frequently.
I’d argue it is humans... yuan-ti call a lot of the top end things they turn into ‘Gods’, but few seem to be in the technical sense. On the other hand, of the Gods we know were mortal before Godhood (as opposed to just suspect it, like some of the racial pantheon members) an overwhelming majority appear to have been humans... a good number of the demon princes and the like we know the mortal existence of as well. I’d argue that lacking a racial Pantheon to ‘default’ to on most worlds... along with their natural ambition and not-infrequent Pride... leads to them doing more long-term God Creation than any other race by far

[Derpaligtr]

[QUOTE=Unoriginal;23297613]Yes, nothing that I've said contradict that. I think you misread what I wrote.


I’d argue it is humans... yuan-ti call a lot of the top end things they turn into ‘Gods’, but few seem to be in the technical sense. On the other hand, of the Gods we know were mortal before Godhood (as opposed to just suspect it, like some of the racial pantheon members) an overwhelming majority appear to have been humans... a good number of the demon princes and the like we know the mortal existence of as well. I’d argue that lacking a racial Pantheon to ‘default’ to on most worlds... along with their natural ambition and not-infrequent Pride... leads to them doing more long-term God Creation than any other race by far

I didn't say that?

There is something funky going on with the quote ability today... :smallwink:

[Unoriginal]

I’d argue it is humans... yuan-ti call a lot of the top end things they turn into ‘Gods’, but few seem to be in the technical sense. On the other hand, of the Gods we know were mortal before Godhood (as opposed to just suspect it, like some of the racial pantheon members) an overwhelming majority appear to have been humans... a good number of the demon princes and the like we know the mortal existence of as well. I’d argue that lacking a racial Pantheon to ‘default’ to on most worlds... along with their natural ambition and not-infrequent Pride... leads to them doing more long-term God Creation than any other race by far

The Volo's says that the not-major serpent gods are relatively often replaced by Yuan-ti who reach proper godhood, until they themselves are replaced by the next.

And the Yuan-ti Anathema is said to be able to reach the divine ranks, if they manage the proper rituals

Granted the humans who reach godhood tends to be mightier, or at least more notable/long-lasting, but in term of sheer number it seems the Yuan-ti have the lead for the divine-of-mortal-origin category.

Which makes sense: even if an Anathema do ascend to godhood, they'd just be the god of a small group or a new face in the low-ranked part of the pantheon. While if other humanoids become divine, it's a BIG thing that has an impact on a lot of people and so motivate a lot of persons to worship them.

Wonder if people tried becoming a god by making the Kuo-toa believe they're a god. Isn't there something like that in Out of the Abyss?

[Naanomi]

I’d guess most ‘ascended’ anathema don’t last long on the Planar scene... they aren’t the kind of race to support eachother in a true ‘pantheon’ after ascension; in fact I’d guess the existing serpent Gods largely just swollow them up for a quick power boost once they leave the Prime



I didn't say that?

There is something funky going on with the quote ability today... :smallwink:
Dunno what happened there, I’ll go back and clean it up. Sorry!

[DrowPiratRobrts]

I once made my party fight 3-4 Kuo-Toa in a swamp of Cypress trees. A few of the trees had big enough bases that they could climb up to stand on them, but the water was up to the waist or higher and most of them were in the water. Trying to fight these little guys in murky swamp water full of trees proved to be almost lethal. Thankfully for the party, it was in a magical training room like the one in X-Men. So I was testing their abilities with different situations and this is the one that ended up getting the better of them. They got really creative with this fight, as well as the jungle fight against a Weretiger. It helped them understand how to use each other and their surroundings to their advantage when the enemy is in its home territory. Good times.

I ended up giving one of them the pincer staff from one of the Kuo-Toa, but he never used it after that fight very much.