Seriously Dude, We need to talk

[Mad Humanist]

Well I suppose that's what forums are for.

When I hear this it reminds me of two things. One is the boss. One is always terrified about what the boss has to say, but it never seems to be as bad as you expect (not even being made redundant.)

The other is family who wants to talk about intractable family issues that have been talked to death already.

So I feel like I am completely clouded as to what Thor is about to say.

[brian 333]

An infodump, I'd say, is the least of what's coming. Thor's choice of words seem ominous to me.

Our favorite Banana can probably find the exact quote, but The Giant was once quoted as saying he had planned out Durkon's vampirization long ago. It was a central plot element long before we readers were aware it was a possibility. To me it would seem logical that all the threads going into that pivotal scene also spin out from it. I think Durkon will play some role to the very last page.

I'm guessing 1134 is the last we see of Durkon before the next book.

[Riftwolf]

My guess? Next strip will go back to the Order and post-fight debrief. No line is better left hanging than 'we need to talk'.

[Kish]

I am eternally mystified by the number of people who think Rich jerks his audience around like that.

[Ruck]

I am eternally mystified by the number of people who think Rich jerks his audience around like that.

Even to the extent one would want dramatic cutaways in the story, it's too late in this book, I think, for much of anything like that. We're going to be getting payoffs, not being jerked around, as you said.

I do think "We need to talk" generally connotes seriousness, but in context with everything else Thor said and the actual circumstances, I don't think he has anything negative to say about Durkon; it's just going to be very important. (I still think he is most likely glad to hear Durkon mention the Snarl, because that gives him a loophole to talk to Durkon about it.)

[Lombard]

My guess? Next strip will go back to the Order and post-fight debrief. No line is better left hanging than 'we need to talk'.

I wouldn't mind it but I feel like Thor would have to surprise me to say something worthy of that device.

[Mad Humanist]

I am eternally mystified by the number of people who think Rich jerks his audience around like that.

Yeah as I recall the transitions usually occur mid-strip.

[BaronOfHell]

I am not familiar enough with the English language to know if there is an important difference between the thread title: "Seriously dude, we need to talk", and what Thor says: "Because seriously, dude - We need to talk".

In particular I wonder if the different placement of the comma could be important?
In my language a comma is a break, and I could imagine there is a difference between: "Seriously, dude we need to talk" and "Seriously dude, we need to talk" in that when "Dude" is after the comma, "Seriously" isn't directed at Durkon, but more at something Thor is going to tell about (my guess is the situation at large).

Could this be a possibility or am I way off?

[RatElemental]

I am not familiar enough with the English language to know if there is an important difference between the thread title: "Seriously dude, we need to talk", and what Thor says: "Because seriously, dude - We need to talk".

In particular I wonder if the different placement of the comma could be important?
In my language a comma is a break, and I could imagine there is a difference between: "Seriously, dude we need to talk" and "Seriously dude, we need to talk" in that when "Dude" is after the comma, "Seriously" isn't directed at Durkon, but more at something Thor is going to tell about (my guess is the situation at large).

Could this be a possibility or am I way off?

They're pretty much identical. Just swap out "Durkon" for dude if that's clearer. The - might also be being used as another break, meaning you could read it as "Seriously, Durkon, we need to talk."

In english when you enclose something in commas it's an aside; something used to give more information but that you could remove from the sentence without hurting its grammatical correctness.

[Riftwolf]

I am eternally mystified by the number of people who think Rich jerks his audience around like that.

It's not so much a rug pull as a means of bypassing an info dump. So at the end of the story when Durkon gets his resurrection, he can give the bullet points of what Thor said as part of the books close.
And you say that like the audience has never been jerked at any point ever in the story. There have been jerks.

[2.5 cats]

I also think Durkon is getting an "off camera" info dump. Best reason not to do it on camera is that a large chunk of it would be things we (the audience) already know. Yeah there would be some surprises, but much easier for Durkon to relate those few new points once he's alive.

Speaking of which, I do think Durkon is coming back in this book, but the next time we see him will be either immediately after or immediate before he returns to life. (Immediately before as in Thor says something like "...So now you know what you have to do. Off you go!" and poof he's alive.)

[Kish]

It's not so much a rug pull as a means of bypassing an info dump. So at the end of the story when Durkon gets his resurrection, he can give the bullet points of what Thor said as part of the books close.
And you say that like the audience has never been jerked at any point ever in the story.
Why yes, I do say that like Rich has never done the "it's really dramatic; let's cut away now!" thing you and some others claim he does.


There have been jerks.
Name one.

[brian 333]

The first glimpse inside Durkon's head is one such example.

[Peelee]

Indeed, if we keep selectively choosing what was actually said, we can probably make it seem even vaguer and vaguer.

Oh, good. I m so glad to hear you say that, Durkon. Because seriously, dude - we need to talk.
"I am so glad to hear you say that," clearly indicates that Thor wants to talk about something related to what Durkon said. Durkon talked about the Hel situation, dealing with Xykon, and the Snarl, and was cut off after the Snarl mention. The gods have been established to have an information blackout on the Snarl. Four of the five gates that patched the rifts have been destroyed. The Order knows more about the Snarl than arguably anyone else alive, sans Redcloak. Thor voted against destroying the world, and specifically called out giving their followers the chance to make it right as his reasoning.

So yeah, I don't at all understand why some people are thinking this won't be an infodump.

[Synesthesy]

The cliffhanger will be what Thor will say, not the simple fact that Thor has something to say.

I think it's about time to discover something more about the true nature of the Gate, the Snarl, and everything related... Just like the world inside the rift was seen the first time in the last strip of a book.

[KorvinStarmast]

So I feel like I am completely clouded as to what Thor is about to say. I see what you did there. :smallsmile: I think that the next strip will be enlightning ... :smallwink: ... due to Thor's reveal.

[Mordar]

My guess? Next strip will go back to the Order and post-fight debrief. No line is better left hanging than 'we need to talk'.


I am eternally mystified by the number of people who think Rich jerks his audience around like that.


It's not so much a rug pull as a means of bypassing an info dump. So at the end of the story when Durkon gets his resurrection, he can give the bullet points of what Thor said as part of the books close.


Why yes, I do say that like Rich has never done the "it's really dramatic; let's cut away now!" thing you and some others claim he does.

I don't believe a scene-change here back to the rest of the Order would be a jerk move (in either connotation) but rather a solid use of rising and falling tension. Sure, Durkon is the star of the show at the moment (and I believe he will feature in most of the remaining pages of the book), but if the infodump many of us expect is to come, it would not be unreasonable to have a page or two of resolution for the rest of the Order.

I'm very interested to see the "post-fight debrief" as well - how everyone will react when they learn what happened to them, and then to Durkon...probably more than what Thor is going to tell Durkon (even though I really really hope it is another crayon story).

Its the split party again, with important stuff going on for both splits, so they have to be juggled a bit, and I'm of the opinion that cuts back and forth could be done to the benefit of the whole.

As long as there is crayons to come.

- M

[KorvinStarmast]

... it would not be unreasonable to have a page or two of resolution for the rest of the Order. I'm very interested to see the "post-fight debrief" as well - how everyone will react when they learn what happened to them, and then to Durkon...probably more than what Thor is going to tell Durkon (even though I really really hope it is another crayon story). Belkar is the only one who is awake. What does he do? Feed a potion to V? Feed a potion to Roy?


Oh, wait, Hilgya's just snapped out of her domination. What does she do? My prediction: she looks around and asks "What happened to Durkon Thundershield?"

And when Belkar says "I just drove a stake through his vampire heart" ... the ripples expand.

[Peelee]

Belkar is the only one who is awake. What does he do? Feed a potion to V? Feed a potion to Roy?


Oh, wait, Hilgya's just snapped out of her domination. What does she do? My prediction: she looks around and asks "What happened to Durkon Thundershield?"

And when Belkar says "I just drove a stake through his vampire heart" ... the ripples expand.

Eh, Belkar knew exactly what happened while he was dominated. I'd be surprised if Hilgya didn't know the score already.

[Lathund]

I'm on team infodump.

I'm calling Risen Martyr. For those of you who don't know it: it's a prestige class from the Book of Exalted Deeds, where someone is sent back to life by his deity, to fulfill a certain task. It's not a particularly strong class; it's mostly fluff. Still, it seems perfectly fitting for this situation.

[Mordar]

Oh, wait, Hilgya's just snapped out of her domination. What does she do? My prediction: she looks around and asks "What happened to Durkon Thundershield?"

And when Belkar says "I just drove a stake through his vampire heart" ... the ripples expand.

That's the primary source of my excitement/interest!

- M

[Kish]

You cut out what I was responding to.

[Peelee]

There have been jerks.
Name one.

Speaking of, I have to note that this has thus far gone unanswered.

[Mightymosy]

Speaking of, I have to note that this has thus far gone unanswered.

The "closest" example of "stop the action and shoe something else" I can think of was #386 when action was stopped to show how Elan got there - or if you want, when action cut away earlier from Elan, and we had to wonder what would happen to him in prison.

Then again, how else can you tell a story where the protagonists split up?

[Mad Humanist]

The first glimpse inside Durkon's head is one such example.

You mean 946 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html), right? Well that is a prime example of a transition happening inside one strip which is exactly what I was referring to as "not a jerk".


Indeed, if we keep selectively choosing what was actually said, we can probably make it seem even vaguer and vaguer.

"I am so glad to hear you say that," clearly indicates that Thor wants to talk about something related to what Durkon said. Durkon talked about the Hel situation, dealing with Xykon, and the Snarl, and was cut off after the Snarl mention. The gods have been established to have an information blackout on the Snarl. Four of the five gates that patched the rifts have been destroyed. The Order knows more about the Snarl than arguably anyone else alive, sans Redcloak. Thor voted against destroying the world, and specifically called out giving their followers the chance to make it right as his reasoning.

So yeah, I don't at all understand why some people are thinking this won't be an infodump.

Yes I totally get this. Durkon and Thor are going to have a chat about at least one of the several things that Durkon mentioned. However that does not really answer the question. Will Thor give a totally different take on the Snarl story? Quite likely as Blackwing and Laurin have already foreshadowed that. But may be there will be a cutaway (as I have been arguing and hoping against) and we will never know how that conversation went until bits of it dribble out as reveals over the course of the rest of the book. May be all we will actually see is a fourth wall breaking joke about how many Twitter followers Thor has, whilst we get a smooth segue back to the rest of the Order. All sorts of wild theories are perfectly compatible with Thor delivering Durkon an info-dump that we may or may not see.

[Peelee]

Then again, how else can you tell a story where the protagonists split up?

Well, to be fair here, there was a whole book about that.

[Mad Humanist]

I'm on team infodump.

I'm calling Risen Martyr. For those of you who don't know it: it's a prestige class from the Book of Exalted Deeds, where someone is sent back to life by his deity, to fulfill a certain task. It's not a particularly strong class; it's mostly fluff. Still, it seems perfectly fitting for this situation.

I have proposed it as well.


I know you guys all think this theory is silly, but I meant it seriously and I do think it is a definite possibility.

However the latest update made me think maybe Thor would send Durkon back as a Risen Martyr. I don't believe Durkon formally qualifies so that would require a Giant amount of fudge.

However I am not sure I would bet my house on it. The best thing in its favour is that it would avoid a Durkon reenacts Roy's afterlife scenario.

[pearl jam]

I am not familiar enough with the English language to know if there is an important difference between the thread title: "Seriously dude, we need to talk", and what Thor says: "Because seriously, dude - We need to talk".

In particular I wonder if the different placement of the comma could be important?
In my language a comma is a break, and I could imagine there is a difference between: "Seriously, dude we need to talk" and "Seriously dude, we need to talk" in that when "Dude" is after the comma, "Seriously" isn't directed at Durkon, but more at something Thor is going to tell about (my guess is the situation at large).

Could this be a possibility or am I way off?


They're pretty much identical. Just swap out "Durkon" for dude if that's clearer. The - might also be being used as another break, meaning you could read it as "Seriously, Durkon, we need to talk."

In english when you enclose something in commas it's an aside; something used to give more information but that you could remove from the sentence without hurting its grammatical correctness.

The - is taking the place of a second comma, yes. In written English it's standard practice when you are addressing someone directly to place commas around the name/title of address. In this case "dude" is taking the place of Durkon's name and Thor is addressing him directly so it would be expected to have a comma both before and after "dude" since it appears mid sentence.

[Jaxzan Proditor]

Thor regards it as a serious matter that he talk to Durkon about the Snarl, which he’s glad that he brought up.

[brian 333]

You mean 946 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0946.html), right? Well that is a prime example of a transition happening inside one strip which is exactly what I was referring to as "not a jerk.

That's the one, and it was a very long wait for me before the comic came back. It was such a case of anticipation that Carly Simon could have written a song about it.

As I said before, the infodump is a given. It wouldn't make sense for Thor to not give Durkon whatever info he has that might help the OotS, especially given his history of passing on information.

I just think if that was all Thor was worried about he would be a lot more cheerful. "Hey, dude! Great job back there! You really put one over on that vampire! Grab a mug while I fill you in on what's comming!"

Instead, he says, "We have to talk." This indicates to me that he has to say something Durkon won't like. Durkon, who would do anyghing to help. In fact, the only thing I can think of that Durkon would not like is that he cannot return to be Kudzu's Pa.

I could be wrong again. But I can't think of anything else that would make Thor be so serious when I just went through a "Booya!" moment after Durkon defeated Durkula.

The Giant has planned this moment for about fifteen years. I trust he knows where he's going. But he has made me wait for fulfillment of a plot line before. It's not a jerk move; it's good storytelling.

[Mightymosy]

Well, to be fair here, there was a whole book about that.

Yes, and by necessity, that book also contained cutaways.

For my taste though they didn't "leave you hanging" as much as my example - but I guess that is subjective in a way. It depends on who you want to know more about at the moment.

[The MunchKING]

I'm on team infodump.

I'm calling Risen Martyr. For those of you who don't know it: it's a prestige class from the Book of Exalted Deeds, where someone is sent back to life by his deity, to fulfill a certain task. It's not a particularly strong class; it's mostly fluff. Still, it seems perfectly fitting for this situation.

gives you a VERY short re-life span though. If Durkon wants to raise his kid, he'll probably want an actual Raise.

[Stabbey]

I am eternally mystified by the number of people who think Rich jerks his audience around like that.

You mean like here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html)?

It's called "pacing" and "dramatic tension". Those are things which when properly applied can increase the audience's enjoyment of the story. When your audience stops wondering "what's going to happen next", that is death to a story.

We will learn what Thor tells Durkon, but it'll probably be as the last strip in the book. A Dramatic reveal just like Xykon and his army of 10,000 heading for Azure City, or what Blackwing saw in the rift, or that Hel's spirit is piloting Durkon's corpse around.

[Mad Humanist]

gives you a VERY short re-life span though. If Durkon wants to raise his kid, he'll probably want an actual Raise.

That could be an argument in his favour. It's the sort of thing that would be most upsetting to Durkon. Thor says "I need to get you back into the game now with this new information and Hilgya only wants to raise you to murder you, so this is your best option - even if it makes your relationship with your son strained, at least it's better than what you had."

Still there are so many ways the Giant could take this and usually he surprises us.

[Sylian]

You mean like here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html)?

It's called "pacing" and "dramatic tension". Those are things which when properly applied can increase the audience's enjoyment of the story. When your audience stops wondering "what's going to happen next", that is death to a story.If Rich had cut away to several strips of, say, Roy talking with Haley, then yes, that would have been a good example. He didn't, though, instead he kept the focus on V and O-Chul.

Cutting away to the Order right now could mean that it might take weeks until we get to see what Thor has to say, and that would certainly kill quite a bit of the dramatic tension. This might work, say, in the middle of a TV show episode, since you'd just have to wait 10 minutes or so in order to get back to the action. For this comic, spending several strips on Roy right now would probably not be a good idea. I expect that we'll get to see Thor and Durkon in the next strip.

[Stabbey]

If Rich had cut away to several strips of, say, Roy talking with Haley, then yes, that would have been a good example. He didn't, though, instead he kept the focus on V and O-Chul.

I wasn't referring to V and O-Chul at all. I was referring to not revealing what Blackwing saw in the rift. That was clearly something of importance which Rich deliberately did not show until later.

[Sylian]

I wasn't referring to V and O-Chul at all. I was referring to not revealing what Blackwing saw in the rift. That was clearly something of importance which Rich deliberately did not show until later.Ah, well, I think that's a bit different from this situation, though. That's more like the whole "We have a plan how to defeat Tarquin" or Elan's "I did something that I won't tell you about" regarding Julio Scoundrél. This situation seems like they're going to be a big reveal right now, and cutting away would be much more frustrating than those previous situations.

[Stabbey]

Frustrating would have been cutting away right after "I'm so glad to hear you say that, Durkon" without revealing who the speaker was. This is building suspense.

I will concede that it's possible we'll get a page or two of Thor talking to Durkon, where we cut away before seeing the whole conversation, but I'm sure we'll still see at least the last part of the conversation around the last page of the book.

[Kish]

You mean like here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0659.html)?
Given that that's the middle of the sequence that starts when Vaarsuvius teleports to attack Xykon and doesn't end until the creature in the darkness teleports them away, no, and that looks like a really random strip to claim is an example of Rich jerking his audience around with abrupt cutaways.

I suppose it's more of an attempt at supporting Riftwolf's claim than Riftwolf bothered to come up with--random as it is.

[Minty]

Thor kicks Durkon out of the church of Thor, Durkon gets resurrected, becomes cleric of Banjo, Banjo casts deciding vote, world is saved.

[Peelee]

I wasn't referring to V and O-Chul at all. I was referring to not revealing what Blackwing saw in the rift. That was clearly something of importance which Rich deliberately did not show until later.

So the main crux of the strip - Blackwing going to drop the phylactery, and Xykon going after him - wasn't cut away? And that has relevance to the main crux of this strip - Durkon and Minrah moving towards Thor (albeit without realizing it) and Thor choosing to speak to Durkon... how? Admittedly, yes, if Thor said that as an offhand comment in the middle of the strip, it would be a parallel, but as it is, that comic reinforces the idea that we'll continue to see what happens.

[Goblin_Priest]

Thor kicks Durkon out of the church of Thor, Durkon gets resurrected, becomes cleric of Banjo, Banjo casts deciding vote, world is saved.

XD

Haley becomes the next High Priestess of Thor! :P

[brian 333]

Given that that's the middle of the sequence that starts when Vaarsuvius teleports to attack Xykon and doesn't end until the creature in the darkness teleports them away, no, and that looks like a really random strip to claim is an example of Rich jerking his audience around with abrupt cutaways.

I suppose it's more of an attempt at supporting Riftwolf's claim than Riftwolf bothered to come up with--random as it is.

I think our primary disagreement here is the characterization of a shift of scene at this moment being a jerk. I don't think it has to be.

Storytellers have used such shifts of focus to heighten the tension ever since since language evolved.

From my PoV, the only jerk move would be if we never learn what Thor has to say. Delaying the relevation to the beginning of the next book, or even to some indeterminate time beyond that, would simply be delayed gratification.

Of course, the next update may make this conversation pointless, but until 1135 comes out I think it's fun to speculate.

[Mightymosy]

It is a commonly used technique in movies and writing.

For example, it is the main motive of every single Dan Brown thriller I have read. They are all structured in the same way, with these kind of cuts basically at the end of every chapter.

That being said, I find it refreshing that the Giant manages to write a very compelling story almost without using this trick.

[KorvinStarmast]

Haley becomes the next High Priestess of Thor! :P She certainly has the perky eyes that I'm guessing Thor would require for the job .... :smallyuk:

And she's smart. And she likes beer.

[Benjamin Vazque]

I would say that we had a "jerk" between 1131 and 1132, as just the most recent example.

Belkar staking Greg in 1131 was nearly as important a moment in Belkar's arc as escaping his imprisonment was in Greg's. At the end of 1131 we had no less than four plot threads - the payoff for Belkar's victory, the revival of the unconscious members of the order, Hilgya's reaction to the death of her child's father, and the need to chase down whatever it is the exarch has planned - which needed to be wrapped up, any one of which could easily have taken center stage in 1132. But instead we jerked away to a different place, following one member of the order and leaving all four of these threads hanging indefinitely.

Once we go back to these threads, of course, the "jerk" won't feel jerkish at all. There are five immediate plot threads afoot - more like a dozen if we recognize that we could, in theory, be about to jump to Redcloak, the Godsmoot, or even Hinjo - and while we may from time to time jump from one thread to another, I rest confident that all of them will get satisfying resolutions in good time.

Enjoy,
Benjamin A. Vazquez, U.E.

[Vendanna]

gives you a VERY short re-life span though. If Durkon wants to raise his kid, he'll probably want an actual Raise.

Well, he is infront of his boss, wouldn't it be that the best moment to ask him for a raise? after all he has now a kid, and he cannot depend on his wife money alone because that would look bad. :P

[Kish]

At the end of 1131 we had no less than four plot threads - the payoff for Belkar's victory, the revival of the unconscious members of the order, Hilgya's reaction to the death of her child's father, and the need to chase down whatever it is the exarch has planned - which needed to be wrapped up, any one of which could easily have taken center stage in 1132. But instead we jerked away to a different place, following one member of the order and leaving all four of these threads hanging indefinitely.

Following someone in the scene who isn't the one you wanted to follow doesn't qualify by any reasonable measure. The claim Riftwolf made is that abruptly switching to a different scene right after Thor said "Seriously, we need to talk" is the kind of thing Rich has done.

Can you come up with any example of a time when he's actually done that, or is it only things like "we're following Durkon, why isn't this strip about Belkar?"

[Mad Humanist]

Following someone in the scene who isn't the one you wanted to follow doesn't qualify by any reasonable measure. The claim Riftwolf made is that abruptly switching to a different scene right after Thor said "Seriously, we need to talk" is the kind of thing Rich has done.

Can you come up with any example of a time when he's actually done that, or is it only things like "we're following Durkon, why isn't this strip about Belkar?"

These words seem totally on point to me.

I think it is very possible that we will see only the beginning of the conversation and that some off the cuff remark by Thor provides an excuse for some dramatic change of scene. But that is the most extreme that would seem consistent with what we have seen of the Giant's work.

[martianmister]

I think the closest strip that could be described this way is 599 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0599.html), especially since it's right before the 600th strip.

[Emanick]

Following someone in the scene who isn't the one you wanted to follow doesn't qualify by any reasonable measure. The claim Riftwolf made is that abruptly switching to a different scene right after Thor said "Seriously, we need to talk" is the kind of thing Rich has done.

Can you come up with any example of a time when he's actually done that, or is it only things like "we're following Durkon, why isn't this strip about Belkar?"

Does The Giant switching away as Belkar falls from the Godsmoot, seemingly to his death, qualify in your book? That seems like the example closest to what Riftwolf is describing.

[Kish]

Closer, but still no. It would qualify if the previous strips had been focusing on only Belkar, not Greg, or if it had switched to "now let's catch up with Xykon" instead of remaining focused on the Godsmoot. And it would be closer, though still not there, had Belkar's still being alive not been revealed before the camera switched away from the Godsmoot.

The next strip could feature Thor opening his mouth and then Durkon suddenly having to accept Resurrection or send the Order a "I won't accept Resurrection" message, and thus Durkon not hearing what Thor wants to say. I don't expect it (I would in fact be very surprised if that happens), but it wouldn't be Rich jerking the audience around as some people keep expecting him to although he never has.

[Rrmcklin]

I would say that we had a "jerk" between 1131 and 1132, as just the most recent example.

Belkar staking Greg in 1131 was nearly as important a moment in Belkar's arc as escaping his imprisonment was in Greg's. At the end of 1131 we had no less than four plot threads - the payoff for Belkar's victory, the revival of the unconscious members of the order, Hilgya's reaction to the death of her child's father, and the need to chase down whatever it is the exarch has planned - which needed to be wrapped up, any one of which could easily have taken center stage in 1132. But instead we jerked away to a different place, following one member of the order and leaving all four of these threads hanging indefinitely.

Once we go back to these threads, of course, the "jerk" won't feel jerkish at all. There are five immediate plot threads afoot - more like a dozen if we recognize that we could, in theory, be about to jump to Redcloak, the Godsmoot, or even Hinjo - and while we may from time to time jump from one thread to another, I rest confident that all of them will get satisfying resolutions in good time.

Enjoy,
Benjamin A. Vazquez, U.E.

Those things you mentioned as "separate plot threads" really aren't. They are all apart of the same plot thread, in the same area and will be addressed in close proximity to one another. The Order simply need to be healed, Hilgya was liking there to kill Durkon any way, and are you expecting some deep introspection from Belkar? After everyone is up on their feet they'll continue on after the scrapes.

Rich began and concluded a climactic battle. And now that the main battle is over he switched focus over to something very important, that can happen as a result of the aforementioned fight scene. If that constitutes "jerking around" to you, I'm afraid we have different definitions of the term.


Does The Giant switching away as Belkar falls from the Godsmoot, seemingly to his death, qualify in your book? That seems like the example closest to what Riftwolf is describing.

I mean, I can't speak for anyone else, but if people actually thought that was going to be Belkar's death, that was on them.

[brian 333]

Closer, but still no. It would qualify if the previous strips had been focusing on only Belkar, not Greg, or if it had switched to "now let's catch up with Xykon" instead of remaining focused on the Godsmoot. And it would be closer, though still not there, had Belkar's still being alive not been revealed before the camera switched away from the Godsmoot.

The next strip could feature Thor opening his mouth and then Durkon suddenly having to accept Resurrection or send the Order a "I won't accept Resurrection" message, and thus Durkon not hearing what Thor wants to say. I don't expect it (I would in fact be very surprised if that happens), but it wouldn't be Rich jerking the audience around as some people keep expecting him to although he never has.

I'm sorry, but I still don't get this point. How is a shift of focus to another part of the story a jerk?

I am really baffled by this claim. I gave you a very valid example of The Giant dangling a very compelling hint, then ending a book. You never even acknowledged it.

If he chooses to shift focus now it not only wouldn't be the first time, it would be consistent with what has gone before.

Consider: we left Roy, Haley, Elan, Varsuuvius, and Blackwing on the floor, unconscious and/or at negative HP to jerk to Durkon's afterlife scene! It's the preceeding scene to this one! We still have at least two vampires and a spawn running loose, with a plot to end the world in the time it would take to resurrect Durkon. That's all hanging right now waiting for Durkon's scene to resolve.

So, while I too want to hear what Thor has to say, I also want to see Roy on his feet before the end of this book, and there aren't many pages left if the average page count per book matters.

[Bisqwit]

Thor regards it as a serious matter that he talk to Durkon about the Snarl, which he’s glad that he brought up.

Well, that, or Thor has a plan that has the consequence of eternally damning Durkon’s soul, and he would not do it unless Durkon was willing, which he just indicated.

[Peelee]

Well, that, or Thor has a plan that has the consequence of eternally damning Durkon’s soul, and he would not do it unless Durkon was willing, which he just indicated.

Then why didn't Thor interrupt earlier?

[Bisqwit]

Then why didn't Thor interrupt earlier?

As a slow thinker myself — it was like five seconds. Could have needed those few seconds to process the implications of these words and decide upon what to do, or maybe he was interested to hear where Durkon will go next with his line.

[Peelee]

As a slow thinker myself — it was like five seconds. Could have needed those few seconds to process the implications of these words and decide upon what to do, or maybe he was interested to hear where Durkon will go next with his line.

Those are the best reasons I have heard, IMO.

Betcha five gold he was waiting to hear "snarl" though. :smalltongue:

[gamingfreak10]

I agree with Kish here, there's really never an example of a set up this big and important where the Giant completely drops the thread. This would be like if after 272 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0272.html), instead of going into the crayons of time back story, he cut away to Xykon.

Also I think people are focusing to much on the possible tone of the second half of what Thor said, and ignoring the first half. The context is, Durkon just said he wants to be resurrected because there's too much at stake to worry about himself, even if they stop Hel from destroying the world, there's a bigger threat in Xykon and the Snarl. Thor is glad to here Durkon say this and they need to talk about it. I think it's clear Thor needs Durkon to go back, and is glad that he's already willing.

[brian 333]

I agree with Kish here, there's really never an example of a set up this big and important where the Giant completely drops the thread. This would be like if after 272 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0272.html), instead of going into the crayons of time back story, he cut away to Xykon.

Also I think people are focusing to much on the possible tone of the second half of what Thor said, and ignoring the first half. The context is, Durkon just said he wants to be resurrected because there's too much at stake to worry about himself, even if they stop Hel from destroying the world, there's a bigger threat in Xykon and the Snarl. Thor is glad to here Durkon say this and they need to talk about it. I think it's clear Thor needs Durkon to go back, and is glad that he's already willing.

I don't disagree with this so much as I am wondering why isn't Thor happier about the situation? If all his concefn here is in getting Durkon back in the game, he should be glad to see that Durkon beat Hel's minion and is ready to go back for more.

Thor don't look glad to me. There's no, "Booya!" no, "Attaboy, Durkon!" no, "Great job, dude, now let's get ready for round 2!"

I could be wrong, but Thor looks like he has bad news. Exactly what that bad news is I don't know, but there are very few things Durkon wouldn't take in stride. In fact, I can only think of one thing that would make Durkon unhappy at this point.

So, say I am wrong. Why does Thor seem unhappy when he should be celebrating Durkon's victory?

[Ruck]

So, say I am wrong. Why does Thor seem unhappy when he should be celebrating Durkon's victory?

Because they're still dealing with a god-killing abomination that might require the destruction of the world.

[Peelee]

I don't disagree with this so much as I am wondering why isn't Thor happier about the situation? If all his concefn here is in getting Durkon back in the game, he should be glad to see that Durkon beat Hel's minion and is ready to go back for more.

Thor don't look glad to me. There's no, "Booya!" no, "Attaboy, Durkon!" no, "Great job, dude, now let's get ready for round 2!"

I could be wrong, but Thor looks like he has bad news. Exactly what that bad news is I don't know, but there are very few things Durkon wouldn't take in stride. In fact, I can only think of one thing that would make Durkon unhappy at this point.

So, say I am wrong. Why does Thor seem unhappy when he should be celebrating Durkon's victory?

Call me a gambling fool, but I'd bet that even for a cleric, having your day personally greet you in the afterlife, specifically waiting to hear you say something, and they wanting to talk, is far outside the modus operandi, let alone just to say "attaboy, buddy!" He has thousands, if not tens of thousands, of clerics. Possibly hundreds of thousands throughout history. Durkon staved off a vampire, which sure, is great, but not "private audience with Thor" important. Knowing about holes I'm the god-killing abominations prison and wanting to go back to deal with it armed with only thirdhand knowledge about it, however, does seem "private audience with Thor" important.

Hence, my wager that it's an info dump about the Snarl.

[brian 333]

Call me a gambling fool, but I'd bet that even for a cleric, having your day personally greet you in the afterlife, specifically waiting to hear you say something, and they wanting to talk, is far outside the modus operandi, let alone just to say "attaboy, buddy!" He has thousands, if not tens of thousands, of clerics. Possibly hundreds of thousands throughout history. Durkon staved off a vampire, which sure, is great, but not "private audience with Thor" important. Knowing about holes I'm the god-killing abominations prison and wanting to go back to deal with it armed with only thirdhand knowledge about it, however, does seem "private audience with Thor" important.

Hence, my wager that it's an info dump about the Snarl.

Yeah, but Durkon just had a major accomplishment which directly furthers Thor's agenda.

A team that's down 3-5 in the final minutes of the game celebrates a goal even if it doesn't win the game, and Durkon just slipped one past the goalie... again. Cheering is expected at this point.

[Jasdoif]

Hence, my wager that it's an info dump about the Snarl.5XP says it'll be a method of exposition other than an infodump.

[Peelee]

5XP says it'll be a method of exposition other than an infodump.

I like what you did there.:smallamused:

Anyway, would you like to define infodump for the purposes of the bet?

[jwhouk]

Over/Under on the number of total periods or exclamation points in Thor's reply would be +7.5 for it to be an infodump.

[TheNecrocomicon]

I don't know, I get the feeling that the supposedly negative tone of Thor's opening line isn't really going to turn out negative in-universe, more of an unfortunately ominous poor choice of greeting, but is -- in a meta sense -- more of an "oh crap" cliffhanger to keep us hooked for a week or two as the comic probably comes back to sublight from its recent Ludicrous Speed updates (he's gone to plaid!). At least that's the impression I get of its present narrative purpose.

[Ruck]

Yeah, but Durkon just had a major accomplishment which directly furthers Thor's agenda.

A team that's down 3-5 in the final minutes of the game celebrates a goal even if it doesn't win the game, and Durkon just slipped one past the goalie... again. Cheering is expected at this point.

No; that second paragraph is pretty much an assumption on your part. I'll just repeat myself:


Because they're still dealing with a god-killing abomination that might require the destruction of the world.

[Jasdoif]

Anyway, would you like to define infodump for the purposes of the bet?A large chunk of information revealed in one session via contiguous narration. One of the more blatant examples of failing to "show, don't tell".

[Peelee]

Yeah, but Durkon just had a major accomplishment which directly furthers Thor's agenda.

A team that's down 3-5 in the final minutes of the game celebrates a goal even if it doesn't win the game, and Durkon just slipped one past the goalie... again. Cheering is expected at this point.

In addition to what Ruck said, they're tied, not in the final minutes, and most importantly of all don't really know the metaphorical rules of the game they're playing. Durkon is ready to go back and deal with the Snarl situation, which the rest of the Order is dealing with. And they're doing it with third-hand knowledge, because there's some sort of information blackout. And Thor interrupted Durkon by literally saying "I am glad to hear you say that" immediately after he mentioned the Snarl.

Not to beat a dead horse here, but I like longshots, but not sucker's bets.

A large chunk of information revealed in one session via contiguous narration. One of the more blatant examples of failing to "show, don't tell".

Like the Crayons of Time?:smallwink: Assuming you agree that is a fair example, then you're on!

[Jasdoif]

Like the Crayons of Time?No; all the questions/interjections by the Order break the Crayons of Time up and make it more of a conversation with characters rather than a narration with a narrator, and the last one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) even used a flashback-esque technique with Serini proposing terms rather than Shojo stating those proposed terms.

Like if the Crayons of Time were intentionally structured not to be an infodump.

[Lathund]

I have proposed it as well.

However I am not sure I would bet my house on it. The best thing in its favour is that it would avoid a Durkon reenacts Roy's afterlife scenario.

Yeah, I'm not particularly surprised someone else thought of that as well. Good to see I'm not alone on this though.


gives you a VERY short re-life span though. If Durkon wants to raise his kid, he'll probably want an actual Raise.
In terms of levels, he gets plenty of time. In term of 'fulfilling his task': well, G... Thor knows how long it's going to take!

[Particle_Man]

In terms of levels, he gets plenty of time. In term of 'fulfilling his task': well, G... Thor knows how long it's going to take!

Apparently, it will take less time than it takes to relate in one (and a little bit) books. :smallbiggrin:

[Peelee]

No; all the questions/interjections by the Order break the Crayons of Time up and make it more of a conversation with characters rather than a narration with a narrator, and the last one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) even used a flashback-esque technique with Serini proposing terms rather than Shojo stating those proposed terms.

Like if the Crayons of Time were intentionally structured not to be an infodump.

Ah. No bet, then, since I think we're basically using different terms for the same thing.

[Mordar]

Yeah, but Durkon just had a major accomplishment which directly furthers Thor's agenda.

A team that's down 3-5 in the final minutes of the game celebrates a goal even if it doesn't win the game, and Durkon just slipped one past the goalie... again. Cheering is expected at this point.


No; that second paragraph is pretty much an assumption on your part. I'll just repeat myself:


In addition to what Ruck said, they're tied, not in the final minutes, and most importantly of all don't really know the metaphorical rules of the game they're playing. Durkon is ready to go back and deal with the Snarl situation, which the rest of the Order is dealing with. And they're doing it with third-hand knowledge, because there's some sort of information blackout. And Thor interrupted Durkon by literally saying "I am glad to hear you say that" immediately after he mentioned the Snarl.

By all accounts, if the Order fails/failed to stop Hel's plot via Durkon and the Exarch, world ends. Order loses, everyone not Plane Shifted dies. They had to "score" just to keep the game alive. Yes, you could argue that Durkon/Exarch still had to complete the plot to win, but we have been led to believe that a virtual certainty.

They have stopped Durkon...and likely the Exarch will fall shortly...so let's call this a success.

But even so, if the Order and their allies doesn't stop a certain Lich and (perhaps more importantly) a certain Dark One worshipper, world ends. Maybe everyone dies, even if they Plane Shift. Now it is possible that other actors could take a role in saving the gate - there's no moratorium on divine intervention then, right? - but we all know that wouldn't be a fitting end to this story. The world lives or dies based on the Order and Friends.

So they had to "score" a victory in Firmament to not lose the game at that moment. And then by all accounts they'll have to get to the last gate and "score" another victory to not lose the game at that moment.

So, must score two or lose, which to my mind is certainly not a tie. And even after that, maybe they still have to do something special to further not lose. Destroying the world to stop the Snarl isn't a victory...and while it might be a "spoiler" result for the Snarl (in keeping with sports references), that still doesn't mean the Order wins.

So what am I missing?

- M

[Peelee]

By all accounts, if the Order fails/failed to stop Hel's plot via Durkon and the Exarch, world ends. Order loses, everyone not Plane Shifted dies. They had to "score" just to keep the game alive. Yes, you could argue that Durkon/Exarch still had to complete the plot to win, but we have been led to believe that a virtual certainty.

They have stopped Durkon...and likely the Exarch will fall shortly...so let's call this a success.

But even so, if the Order and their allies doesn't stop a certain Lich and (perhaps more importantly) a certain Dark One worshipper, world ends. Maybe everyone dies, even if they Plane Shift. Now it is possible that other actors could take a role in saving the gate - there's no moratorium on divine intervention then, right? - but we all know that wouldn't be a fitting end to this story. The world lives or dies based on the Order and Friends.

So they had to "score" a victory in Firmament to not lose the game at that moment. And then by all accounts they'll have to get to the last gate and "score" another victory to not lose the game at that moment.

So, must score two or lose, which to my mind is certainly not a tie. And even after that, maybe they still have to do something special to further not lose. Destroying the world to stop the Snarl isn't a victory...and while it might be a "spoiler" result for the Snarl (in keeping with sports references), that still doesn't mean the Order wins.

So what am I missing?

- M

That none of that requires Thor need to talk to Durkon. Snarl stuff likely does.

[Ruck]

So what am I missing?

- M


That none of that requires Thor need to talk to Durkon. Snarl stuff likely does.

Also, I was just saying that I didn't think Thor saying "seriously" meant he had bad personal news for Durkon. brian said he thought Thor should be celebratory right now; Mordar went into much greater detail than I did why that isn't really the case.

[godsflunky]

So in all our speculation over what would be in the next strip, did anyone pick "No cut-away to the rest of the Order (or anyone else) but also no actual information because it's all just Thor being the Jolly Blond Giant"?

[Peelee]

So in all our speculation over what would be in the next strip, did anyone pick "No cut-away to the rest of the Order (or anyone else) but also no actual information because it's all just Thor being the Jolly Blond Giant"?

Well, gimme a second to edit one of my posts and I'll have totally predicted it.

[brian 333]

So in all our speculation over what would be in the next strip, did anyone pick "No cut-away to the rest of the Order (or anyone else) but also no actual information because it's all just Thor being the Jolly Blond Giant"?

I thought Kish had said something along those lines, but now I can't find the quote.

While I had expected a shift to the resolution of the Order's situation for the end of the book, anticipating learning about the expected infodump in the beginning of next book, I am not disappointed at being wrong.

The big question hanging now is, what form will Thor's help take?

[Mad Humanist]

Like the Crayons of Time?:smallwink:

Crayons have been done to death. The next plot exposition will be forged in glitter ink.


So in all our speculation over what would be in the next strip, did anyone pick "No cut-away to the rest of the Order (or anyone else) but also no actual information because it's all just Thor being the Jolly Blond Giant"?

Well we were arguing about the extremes so you could argue we all did collectively in that the actual result was somewhere in the middle. Anyway Thor has not actually said what he was going to say, so really the question still pretty much stands.

Also has anyone considered the possibility that Thor intends to ask Durkon questions? Maybe Durkon (post soul dump) knows something about Hel's plans and is effectively now a spy.

[Particle_Man]

Since Thor was willing to keep Minrah’s personal info private from Durkon, whatever Thor has to say will not be something that Durkon would wish kept private from Minrah.

[Mad Humanist]

Since Thor was willing to keep Minrah’s personal info private from Durkon, whatever Thor has to say will not be something that Durkon would wish kept private from Minrah.

I'm actually wondering. On the main thread most people are guessing Minrah is lesbian. That is my first thought too. So surely that is what Durkon is thinking too. I believe Durkon would be fine with that. But presumably Minrah does not know that. In any case whatever Minrah's secret is, Thor has not done a good job, because even revealing that she has a secret is half-way to revealing it. Still they both seem pretty pleased with him. Correction all three of them seem pretty pleased with him.

[Rrmcklin]

I'm actually wondering. On the main thread most people are guessing Minrah is lesbian. That is my first thought too. So surely that is what Durkon is thinking too. I believe Durkon would be fine with that. But presumably Minrah does not know that. In any case whatever Minrah's secret is, Thor has not done a good job, because even revealing that she has a secret is half-way to revealing it. Still they both seem pretty pleased with him. Correction all three of them seem pretty pleased with him.

How is Thor supposed to tell her he's okay with the thing she was worried about, without brining up the thing she was worried about?

If the character is happy (and she clearly is) then that means he did a good job. That shouldn't even need to be explained.

And none of this actually has to do with what Thor wants to talk to Durkon about.

[gamingfreak10]

I don't disagree with this so much as I am wondering why isn't Thor happier about the situation? If all his concefn here is in getting Durkon back in the game, he should be glad to see that Durkon beat Hel's minion and is ready to go back for more.

Thor don't look glad to me. There's no, "Booya!" no, "Attaboy, Durkon!" no, "Great job, dude, now let's get ready for round 2!"

I could be wrong, but Thor looks like he has bad news. Exactly what that bad news is I don't know, but there are very few things Durkon wouldn't take in stride. In fact, I can only think of one thing that would make Durkon unhappy at this point.

So, say I am wrong. Why does Thor seem unhappy when he should be celebrating Durkon's victory?

For exactly the context I gave. Congrats Durkon you stopped the single biggest threat in Hel's plan. There's still 3 or 4 vampires actively trying to complete it though, and even we stop them, the worlds still a long way from safe.

Maybe save the kegger for later right?

[brian 333]

For exactly the context I gave. Congrats Durkon you stopped the single biggest threat in Hel's plan. There's still 3 or 4 vampires actively trying to complete it though, and even we stop them, the worlds still a long way from safe.

Maybe save the kegger for later right?

Save the kegger for later?

Throw him out the fraternity!

[Mad Humanist]

How is Thor supposed to tell her he's okay with the thing she was worried about, without brining up the thing she was worried about?

If the character is happy (and she clearly is) then that means he did a good job. That shouldn't even need to be explained.

And none of this actually has to do with what Thor wants to talk to Durkon about.

If Thor had been an actual human manager, and Durkon and Minrah actual employees then he would have waited until they were actually alone. I don't think any negative consequences are actually going to flow from this - as you say, everyone appears happy. I do think, however, it shows how flawed a character Thor is, and that I think is intentional. Maybe or maybe not his character flaws are going to have consequences. OR may it just makes Roy's points that one should not think too highly of the gods.

[TenthousandDays]

I did not get the impression from this comic that homosexuality is a contentious issue. My impression was that, like matters of skin colour or to an extent even species, there are no value judgements about it, because I have not seen any. Feel free to correct me with evidence to the contrary. Thus I do not think a character would be worried about disapproval of their sexuality, because they didn't think it was grounds for disapproval in the first place.

[Mad Humanist]

I did not get the impression from this comic that homosexuality is a contentious issue. My impression was that, like matters of skin colour or to an extent even species, there are no value judgements about it, because I have not seen any. Feel free to correct me with evidence to the contrary. Thus I do not think a character would be worried about disapproval of their sexuality, because they didn't think it was grounds for disapproval in the first place.

Yeah I don't think there is a single issue where sexuality, skin colour or gender has been an issue.

You could probably make a case that Belkar is a misogynist. But he doesn't think gender disqualifies people from adventuring roles. Species might be a proxy for human race but that's arguable. Even religion - at least as a mere label - has not been an issue.

So yeah I don't think Minrah is being particularly reasonable if she thinks Durkon would disapprove of her. She is however entitled to her privacy and I think that is about it. Also even if we never know for sure, I'm guessing she probably still becomes an LGBTQ icon.

[Rrmcklin]

No; all the questions/interjections by the Order break the Crayons of Time up and make it more of a conversation with characters rather than a narration with a narrator, and the last one (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html) even used a flashback-esque technique with Serini proposing terms rather than Shojo stating those proposed terms.

Like if the Crayons of Time were intentionally structured not to be an infodump.

You're the first person I've seen describe infodump like that. An infodump doesn't somehow preclude the characters having a back and forth conversation between the ones listening and the ones explaining things. Comparing Thor to a manager and Minrah and Durkon to his employees is actually a very poor analogy, for more than one reason.


If Thor had been an actual human manager, and Durkon and Minrah actual employees then he would have waited until they were actually alone. I don't think any negative consequences are actually going to flow from this - as you say, everyone appears happy. I do think, however, it shows how flawed a character Thor is, and that I think is intentional. Maybe or maybe not his character flaws are going to have consequences. OR may it just makes Roy's points that one should not think too highly of the gods.

When was Thor going to be alone with Minrah; this meeting isn't about her she just happens to be along for the ride. He only mentioned it to her offhand before he forgot because presumably they're not going to get another chance like this.

You're reading more (and differently) into this little bit than you're supposed to. Him saying that to her is highly unlikely to be an intended character flaw because, again, it wasn't portrayed negatively, but as a positive.

There is something in the strip that I think we might be intended to read as a character flaw of Thor, but it isn't that.

[The Pilgrim]

Given that Minrah seems a bit like a dwarf teenager, and her life revolves around the Temple, I bet the "little secret" Minrah is worried about is that she masturbates, and was caught by some Temple official while on the act. Hence, for her it is a big relief to know Thor is not offended by it, like the priests of her Temple were.

Wild speculation is free.

[KorvinStarmast]

If she'd been caught by the priests, how is that a secret? :smallconfused:

I don't get why people in this thread and that other one have taken "you do you" and overwritten "masturbation" ... but I guess the internet is still the internet.

Plus: she's dead. This is the afterlife.

[Goblin_Priest]

If she'd been caught by the priests, how is that a secret? :smallconfused:

I don't get why people in this thread and that other one have taken "you do you" and overwritten "masturbation" ... but I guess the internet is still the internet.

Plus: she's dead. This is the afterlife.

Slang varies by region.

Over here, "doing someone" refers to sex. The thread on this comic will have been my first exposition to "you do you" as potentially meaning "be yourself". Combined with the embarrassment part, well...

I'm ready to believe that's probably not what Rich intended, but I, like many others, did not have the necessary knowledge of American slang to interpret it otherwise. ;)

[Peelee]

Slang varies by region.

Over here, "doing someone" refers to sex.

Same here. Except for the very well-known idiom "you do you." I can see the confusion after having it explained that idiom is a very American thing, though.

ETA: Come to think of it, I'm almost positive I've said that on the forums before. I really hope it was to Americans now.

[Ruck]

As an idiom, "you do you" is probably best explained by reading it as "you do [whatever's right for] you."

[DeliaP]

Well, also not being American, I'd never heard the phrase "you do you" before, but just guessed from the context that it meant "be yourself" (although gotta admit it sounded terribly clunky to my non-american ears ;-) )

And although "doing" someone does typically mean sex where I come from, it didn't occur to me that was how we were supposed to interpret "you do you" until it got suggested here. Gotta admit, it sounds a terribly clunky way of expressing it.

But what really makes the masturbation interpretation unlikely is that Thor says "That thing you've been worried about for a while that you'd rather I not say out loud in front of Durkon?" and then says out loud in front of Durkon "Cool with me. You do you, kid".

It would really be quite a ****-move by Thor to do that.

[hroþila]

Same here. Except for the very well-known idiom "you do you." I can see the confusion after having it explained that idiom is a very American thing, though.

ETA: Come to think of it, I'm almost positive I've said that on the forums before. I really hope it was to Americans now.
Relevant:
https://j.gifs.com/XoWV7o.gif

[Mightymosy]

Count me in on the number of people who absolutely did not understand what Thor meant by "You do you". On first read I thought typo, on second read I thought "No idea. I don't get it."
Thanks for explaining!

[KorvinStarmast]

As an idiom, "you do you" is probably best explained by reading it as "you do [whatever's right for] you." Yes it is.

Well, also not being American, I'd never heard the phrase "you do you" before, but just guessed from the context that it meant "be yourself" (although gotta admit it sounded terribly clunky to my non-american ears ;-) ) Good guess. :smallsmile:

[Goblin_Priest]

But what really makes the masturbation interpretation unlikely is that Thor says "That thing you've been worried about for a while that you'd rather I not say out loud in front of Durkon?" and then says out loud in front of Durkon "Cool with me. You do you, kid".

It would really be quite a ****-move by Thor to do that.

He'd need to be a total buffoon, right? Oh wait... ;)

But yea, I agree with ya, that's probably not what was intended.

[martianmister]

Thor was talking about Minrah's plan to clone herself and have sex with herself. She has a selfcest fetish.

[Peelee]

Thor was talking about Minrah's plan to clone herself and have sex with herself. She has a selfcest fetish.

The Clone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm) spell doesn't work that way.

[Crusher]

The Clone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm) spell doesn't work that way.

Not with THAT attitude, it won't.

[The MunchKING]

The Clone (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/clone.htm) spell doesn't work that way.

That's why you need SCIENCE! and not just magic to do this thing.

[Peelee]

That's why you need SCIENCE! and not just magic to do this thing.

As they teach in the Science and Magic, Clark's Third Law states that any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. Ergo, science is magic, and the Clone spell does not work that way.

Not with THAT attitude, it won't.
Eh, fair point. Now I just need to clone a better attitude...

[Mordar]

That none of that requires Thor need to talk to Durkon. Snarl stuff likely does.

...I still don't get it.

I mean, I understand why Thor isn't celebratory. I've got no issue with the seriousness (and am in fact pleased about it, since Thor shouldn't be a total frat-boy-spoof, IMO).

I still hold they are the underdogs, down by [scores] and the game is winding down. That they don't know all the rules is likely a bad thing, making the situation even more precarious. If there were sneaky-good rules afoot, Thor might be more celebratory...but as he isn't, I'm guessing the Order is down by more [score] than even they think.

- M

[Peelee]

...I still don't get it.

It's ok, I'll try to break it down more.

There are two massive threats to the world: Hel's vampires and the Snarl.

Why would Thor need to talk to Durkon about the vampire stuff? Durkon pretty much knows all the details. He knows Hel's plan, he knows the exExarch's plan, he knows how many vampires are left and where they are, he's pretty set as soon as he gets rezzed. There is zero reason to believe Thor can give any new information on this.

Conversely, both the audience and the characters have reason to believe what they know about the Snarl is incomplete, at best. The world inside the rifts is a point indicates a major piece of the puzzle missing, and Durkon does not know what that is at all. This knowledge is also only held by the gods.

So we can reasonably assume that it is very unlikely that Thor wants to talk about Hel or the vampires, while also reasonably assuming that it is very likely that Thor wants to talk about the Snarl.

[Mordar]

It's ok, I'll try to break it down more.

There are two massive threats to the world: Hel's vampires and the Snarl.

Why would Thor need to talk to Durkon about the vampire stuff? Durkon pretty much knows all the details. He knows Hel's plan, he knows the exExarch's plan, he knows how many vampires are left and where they are, he's pretty set as soon as he gets rezzed. There is zero reason to believe Thor can give any new information on this.

Conversely, both the audience and the characters have reason to believe what they know about the Snarl is incomplete, at best. The world inside the rifts is a point indicates a major piece of the puzzle missing, and Durkon does not know what that is at all. This knowledge is also only held by the gods.

So we can reasonably assume that it is very unlikely that Thor wants to talk about Hel or the vampires, while also reasonably assuming that it is very likely that Thor wants to talk about the Snarl.

Fully on board and agree. Never for a moment thought Thor's exposition would be anything other than on Dwarfly matters (like resurrection pathways that might be impinged for Durkon to get back so that he can prevent Snarl-tastrophe) or the Snarl itself.

But how does that make the Order metaphorically tied instead of losing/behind? That's what I'm not getting.

- M

[Lathund]

Apparently, it will take less time than it takes to relate in one (and a little bit) books. :smallbiggrin:
I don't think I follow you. Has Rick said there will only be one more book after this?

[Minty]

Same here. Except for the very well-known idiom "you do you." I can see the confusion after having it explained that idiom is a very American thing, though.

I don't think this is such an obscure Americanism as people are making out. I'm British, and until I saw this discussion, I would have assumed that "you do you" was universal English usage understood by all English speakers, and would not have associated the phrase with anywhere in particular. It never even crossed my mind that a native English speaker wouldn't know what it meant.

[Peelee]

Fully on board and agree. Never for a moment thought Thor's exposition would be anything other than on Dwarfly matters (like resurrection pathways that might be impinged for Durkon to get back so that he can prevent Snarl-tastrophe) or the Snarl itself.

But how does that make the Order metaphorically tied instead of losing/behind? That's what I'm not getting.

- M

Oh, my bad! I am not a smart man.

I called 'em as metaphorically tied as in they've taken out a lot of the vampiric heavy hitters and are in the home stretch. They still have their work cut out for them, but victory is within reach. Especially since Durkon's vampire seemed to be the most cunning, conniving of the bunch (and likely also the most powerful), and he's been taken out.

[KorvinStarmast]

Oh, my bad! I am not a smart man.

I called 'em as metaphorically tied as in they've taken out a lot of the vampiric heavy hitters and are in the home stretch. They still have their work cut out for them, but victory is within reach. Especially since Durkon's vampire seemed to be the most cunning, conniving of the bunch (and likely also the most powerful), and he's been taken out. Never underestimate a rules lawyer. The exarch/vamp is a rules-lawyery-sort it seems. Hence his being sent as the advanced party to the meeting.

[The Pilgrim]

If she'd been caught by the priests, how is that a secret? :smallconfused:

I don't get why people in this thread and that other one have taken "you do you" and overwritten "masturbation" ... but I guess the internet is still the internet.

Plus: she's dead. This is the afterlife.

It has nothing to do with the "you do you" line. In fact I didn't even notice that line when I read the comic.

Me being a guy who attended a catholic school, if I'm feed as context "clergy", "shameful secret", "deadly sin" and "great relief at knowing it's okay to do it", my inmediate answer is "masturbation".

[Peelee]

Me being a guy who attended a catholic school, if I'm feed as context "clergy", "shameful secret", "deadly sin" and "great relief at knowing it's okay to do it", my inmediate answer is "masturbation".

Conversely, my immediate answer would be premarital sex. I'd ask what order you had teaching, but it's probably a better idea to shy away from specifics.

[Emanick]

I don't think I follow you. Has Rick said there will only be one more book after this?

Yeah, Rich Burlew (that's his name, not Rick) has confirmed that there will be seven main books (not counting prequels or bonus material, of course).

[jwhouk]

Wow - so that means only one more book? :eek:

[Kish]

One more after the one currently going up on the website (not yet published in book form), yes. Good stories have endings.

[Jasdoif]

Wow - so that means only one more book? :eek:One more main book, yes; though the last book may be quite large.

[Peelee]

One more main book, yes; though the last book may be quite large.

You clearly haven't seen a Cullman phone book.

[Jasdoif]

You clearly haven't seen a Cullman phone book.No...but growing up; the phone book here covered three counties and the city, towns (which have been "officially" cities for a decade or two now) and unincorporated communities therein. The phone book was about three times as thick as Blood Runs in the Family, if I recall correctly.

[Peelee]

No...but growing up; the phone book here covered three counties and the city, towns (which have been "officially" cities for a decade or two now) and unincorporated communities therein. The phone book was about three times as thick as Blood Runs in the Family, if I recall correctly.

I could easily tear the Cullman phone book in half, IIRC. I've seen thicker magazines in the grocery store checkout aisles

[Jasdoif]

I could easily tear the Cullman phone book in half, IIRC. I've seen thicker magazines in the grocery store checkout aislesSo it seems like what we're saying here is, "looks like a phone book" is too ambiguous to take it for real...as in, it might result in a phony book. The back cover of Snips, Snails, and Dragon Tales already did "An explanation of what phonebooks were for audience members under the age of 20", so phone->phony is all I got.

[Particle_Man]

It would have to end soon if the Gates theme is the big campaign theme. We are running out of Gates.

That said, another story in the same realm (or perhaps OOTS world 3.0 depending out it goes) could be told with different characters one day.