Bladesinger. and action surge

[Whit]

1. Is a bladesinger good as I fear the hit point armor potential for melee might be bad. You get hit and your out.

2. If you went lvl 2 fighter then wizard/bladsinger
Could you cast a full spell then action surge to cast another full spell.


3. Anything else that oils be good to know

[RSP]

1. Is a bladesinger good as I fear the hit point armor potential for melee might be bad. You get hit and your out.

2. If you went lvl 2 fighter then wizard/bladsinger
Could you cast a full spell then action surge to cast another full spell.


3. Anything else that oils be good to know

1. I like it. AC is great, hp not so much but between AC, Shield and Absorb Elements you can hang in there.

2. Yes.

3. There’s a couple good guides for them out there if you google for them.

[unusualsuspect]

1. The AC gets reasonably good, but the low HP is a serious drawback (because enemies can crit, and your AC is really only comparable to heavy armor/shield users, not generally better, unless you rolled for stats and rolled extremely well.

Anecdote: My Warforged Bladesinger (DM has them as Elven constructs made for one of their huge wars), whose AC would be higher than an equivalent elven bladesinger, has been brought to half HP in the first round of both combats it has participated in, once by crit and the other by getting hit before Bladesinging was able to be brought up or a reaction used (poor initiative rolls, and my our group didn't have a good idea on how stealth works - did some research after that).

Once you're up and running, however, Shield, Mirror Image, Absorb Elements, and Blur are going to make you difficult to tag. You should be able to contribute, though you don't want to over-reach. You don't have the paladin/fighter's Hit Points to survive a few lucky blows.

2. Yes. Keep in mind that if you cast a bonus action spell, you'll be limited to cantrips for your action spells.

3. You're a glass cannon - you can hit hard, and move fast, but if you get hit, you're going to feel it (you get roughly 2/3 the HP that a fighter would, assuming 14 con). Engage enemies carefully, and use that extra 10 feet of movement to your advantage. Don't hesitate to Thunderwave a bunch of enemies away if you get surrounded, because otherwise you're gonna end up a pincushion.

[AvvyR]

With their high AC plus shield plus absorb elements plus blur/mirror image/stoneskin plus ability to reduce incoming damage, their survivability is usually fine if you play them right.

As said, any caster with 2 fighter can action surge to cast two spells with two actions and is not limited to the cantrip drawback that accompanies bonus action spells.

Bladesinger's main issue is that even with all the fancy melee abilities, you still get all the wizard spells and you'll nearly always be better off using them as a standard wizard, rather than wasting slots defending yourself in melee.

[elfinboy]

1 I have a lv 11 bladesinger and i have the best survivability in my party full of fighter barbarians with 27 AC+2 studded leather +3 dex +5 int +shield disadvantage from cloak of displacement and mirror image i'm extremely hard to hit and even if you get hit you still have song of defence and absorb ellements


2 fighter action surge is good but i wouldn't dip to early or you will be way behind on spells


3 even being a glass cannon if your enemies have low hit bonus like orcs or goblins you can run in first and make them waste their turns trying to hit you

[Malifice]

Blade singers arent designed for melee. Stay out of melee.

Its there as a backup for when you're out of spells, and as a nice defensive buff, and to help deliver melee range cantrips.

Dont fool yourself into thinking you're a fighter. Youre not.

Ditto playing an EK as a Wizard. You're not one, so dont try.

[Rhaegar14]

Blade singers arent designed for melee. Stay out of melee.

Its there as a backup for when you're out of spells, and as a nice defensive buff, and to help deliver melee range cantrips.

Dont fool yourself into thinking you're a fighter. Youre not.

Ditto playing an EK as a Wizard. You're not one, so dont try.

Trying to play them as warrior-mages rather than wizards with extra AC is not badwrongfun even if it's not necessarily the most optimal way to run a Bladesinger. But Malifice does to some extent have a point, you are not a Fighter. My Bladesinger for Curse of Strahd (6th level) has the highest AC in the party -- 22 when fully buffed (Mage Armor, Bladesong, and Haste with Dex 16 and Int 18). I feel it's worth noting that this puts me at higher AC than our Fighter, who is a plate-wearing, sword-and-board Cavalier meant to be as durable as possible. But I still have Wizard hit points and I did go down hard the one time I got crit. The big thing you have to recognize is that if you're going to play a Bladesinger as a primary melee combatant it's going to show in your spell selection in a big way. Fully HALF of my character's go-to spells per day are at least partially defensive if not entirely -- and there's not a single day I don't prepare Mage Armor, Shield, Absorb Elements, and Counterspell (typical combat-oriented loadout includes these plus Misty Step and Haste -- on Misty Step, there's a lot of nasty stuff it can get you out of without you having to make a check or save, it's a "nope" spell in the same vein as Shield, Absorb Elements, and Counterspell). Now I actually find this playstyle very fun; I like playing tank characters, and it's satisfying how much of a hard time our DM has getting damage to stick to me. But when it sticks, it sticks hard, and again, I'm devoting a huge part of my spells per day to it. It's doable, but it takes more than just the Bladesong feature; know what you're getting in to.

[Citan]

1. Is a bladesinger good as I fear the hit point armor potential for melee might be bad. You get hit and your out.

2. If you went lvl 2 fighter then wizard/bladsinger
Could you cast a full spell then action surge to cast another full spell.


3. Anything else that oils be good to know
1. It's perfectly workable, as long as you think like a Rogue rather than like a Barbarian. :)
2. Yes, completely, and you could also buff yourself with a spell (*cough* Mirror Image / Haste / Greater Invisibility *cough*) then unleash an Extra Attac in the same turn.
3. See below.


Blade singers arent designed for melee. Stay out of melee.

Its there as a backup for when you're out of spells, and as a nice defensive buff, and to help deliver melee range cantrips.

Dont fool yourself into thinking you're a fighter. Youre not.

Ditto playing an EK as a Wizard. You're not one, so dont try.
Lol.
Bladesinger are as unsuited for melee as Rogues, mostly.
What's the matter about having low HP when you can plain avoid hits in the first place?

As I always point out, a Bladesinger can be a better melee damage dealer than a Fighter (and a Rogue, and many other martial characters) from level 5 to level 12. The only (significant ;)) difference is that he consumes resources for that, so in long adventuring days it's usually better to act as a plain caster.

@OP.
Bladesinger is one of the greatest schools imo because it gives you a big latitude in how to play, with the main limit being the spells you learn (a limit being lifted as soon as your DM works to give you appropriate loot, meaning extra spells).

1. Bladesinger as "defensive" like Malifice suggests. >>> Nothing special to do: just learn a weapon cantrip and be done with it (although technically Shocking Grasp would be even better tbh), or "maybe" getting a reaction-based defensive feature (Battlemaster's Parry, Defensive Duelist feat) if you want to conserve 1st level slots rather than spamming Shield. Also meaning best FS is Defense, and since you will stay in the backlines anyways, there are better things to do rather than boost DEX (Resilient, Alert come to mind).
For example, when an enemy closed into melee and you want to move away safely, combine Booming Blade and Mobile feat, or use Shocking Grasp with a free hand after having diverted the attack with Defensive Duelist (decent feat to take, but for a Wizard it's a mixed bag: at low level it's just not worth because only +2, at late levels you should have enough slots to not care that much -especially if you actively avoid being targeted-) or Parry (sure you can use reaction and slots to absorb damage at level 10, but it's kinda a waste of slot except if it's about saving your life. Imo Parry can be worth taking IF you never expect reaching level 18, otherwise don't go beyond the Action Surge: even if only for a few sessions after reaching capstone, free Shield is too good to not taste it ;)).
TBH though, there are two simpler options that just require spell learning: Misty Step (instant -> no OA) and Thunder Step (similar). With Misty Step being a 2nd level spell and bonus action, it's really a fair trade imo. TS can be useful too although it does use up action this one.

2. Pure gish, as in "I mix weapon attacks and magic depending on situation". This means that...
- You probably don't want to invest too much into melee feats-wise, so maybe even Mobile or +2 DEX would be off (1 less ASI, 2 on maxing INT already, not much space). Same with FS, may be overkill to pick an offensive one
But honestly it's a matter of taste.
- You will probably keep concentration for "classic" battlefield-defining magic (Fear, Hypnotic Pattern, Wall of Force, Animate Objects, etc).
But you can still pick a few spells helping you sustain melee weapon attacks or switch "stances" like Longstrider (cheap way to increase weapon and magic range), Earth Tremor (chance of putting prone, you attack with advantage, OA will be made at disadvantage), Thunderstep (melee > caster or pull back a friend to safety), Blink (how to attack you if you're not here? Also good for your concentration;)), Fire Shield (won't prevent you to die if a heavy hitter comes to you, but can fend off lesser creatures).
And of course Shield and Absorb Elements, but honestly these are basic imo. :)

3. Magically empowered duelist
You will rely much on spells to buff you: while still having "classic" spells for when party really needs it, you'll be rather seen as an impressive damage dealer.
First of all, you'll have to choose a "primary" buff, as it conditions the FS and feat choices, barring Mobile which will be overall a most-needed one.

- Greater Invisibility: a go-to spell, if costly, works with whatever kind of build you make, but especially good with two-weapon fighting. Also helps offense and defense at the same time. Also good for casting (not seen > easier to get into optimal position). It's the versatile choice.
Just Elven Accuracy will be enough here, then Warcaster then INT a bit before you grab the damage boost.
If you are not sure about how to go and want to keep options open, this is the simplest choice (you can still learn other spells to try out in less dangerous fights).

- Haste is great, gotten early enough, pairs with Dueling and Two-Weapon alike, but also means you really want good concentration. You already got starting Fighter for proficiency, but I'd still get Warcaster (near-mandatory if two-weapons). It's also the only spell that can dispense you from investing into Mobile feat, but it also means you will usually use the extra action on Disengage rather than Dashing or making one more weapon attack. You'll rely on high number of attacks per turn, so you'll want Elven Accuracy ASAP, then bumping DEX to at least 18 (can be done with Elven Accuracy if you start with 17 ;)).

- Shadow Blade: kinda puts a red flag on two-weapon fighting, because of bonus action cost and fact it affects only one weapon. Dueling however can be a nice choice. Interesting choice because it upcasts well, synergizes with Extra Attack, can be thrown and taken back as bonus action (situational but useful).
It does not help you any in defense though, uses up concentration (so no other spell to generate advantage), and is useless if you don't hit, so you'll need to boost attack (Elven Accuracy if someone in party can help generate advantage) and resilience (spam Shield or Defensive Duelist).

- Hold Person / Hold Monster: kinda an Action Surge combo here since you never know when the creature will succeed on later saves. Means you definitely wants to go dual-wielding, and also buff you with Longstrider possibly.
A risky bet, since you never really know if it's gonna work even at least on turn you cast it.
On the plus side, everyone profits and you can close in without risking OA or such. :)

- Tenser's Transformation: FIY as it's a very high level spell, works great with two-weapon fighting.

There are other spells that can really make you shine as a melee damage dealer or gish, either directly or indirectly (Flaming Sphere, Evard's Black Tentacles), but this would require a full dedicated guide (and for some at least a very specific build), and I don't have that kind of time. ;)

[RSP]

- Shadow Blade: kinda puts a red flag on two-weapon fighting, because of bonus action cost and fact it affects only one weapon. Dueling however can be a nice choice. Interesting choice because it upcasts well, synergizes with Extra Attack, can be thrown and taken back as bonus action (situational but useful).
It does not help you any in defense though, uses up concentration (so no other spell to generate advantage), and is useless if you don't hit, so you'll need to boost attack (Elven Accuracy if someone in party can help generate advantage) and resilience (spam Shield or Defensive Duelist).


Something I oft see forgotten with SB: it gives advantage in anything other than bright light, which is doable, ~90% of adverting time.

[Citan]

Something I oft see forgotten with SB: it gives advantage in anything other than bright light, which is doable, ~90% of adverting time.
Oups. Big miss on py part. Thanks for stressing it!

Although, while on topic, how would you do yourself to enable this? Considering most spells affecting light are concentration?

[RSP]

Oups. Big miss on py part. Thanks for stressing it!

Although, while on topic, how would you do yourself to enable this? Considering most spells affecting light are concentration?

I wouldn’t worry too much about manufacturing it, actually. The vast majority of the time adventures will either be indoors or at night (or maybe in a forest where the canopy blocks most of the light), and in either situation, there should be light sources (such as torches) to work around, if you’re not just using Darkvision. A torch is what, 20’ bright light? Fairly easy to set it up with your group, if one of the PCs needs it, to work outside that circumference. Otherwise, just use that 40’ movement to get where it’s dim or dark.

I’ve found it pretty rare to be fighting in bright light.