WgtE Arcane Focus ideas?

[Mjolnirbear]

So in the Eberron supplement, wood and crystal from manifest planes can give +1 damage to spells or reduce damage received by 1d4. The type of damage you do/reduce depends on the type of manifest zone the material comes from.

It also suggests optional two-handed rules to increase range by 50%.

How would you expand on this in your game?

Weapons differ largely via flavour and by interactions with other items or feats. For instance, any one-handed weapon fits Duelling fighting style and goes with shield. Heavy weapons with GWM, monk weapons with monk abilities, finesse with sneak attack. But there's no reason to take, say, à Wand instead of a staff or an orb, until WgtE.

I'm not ready to try building feats or fighting styles (casting styles?) at the moment, but here are some ideas:

Wand: cantrips that crit roll an additional die for damage

Rod: cantrips' range increase by 50%

Staff: once per spell, reroll any 1s rolled for damage

Orb: when you take spell damage, reduce by 1d4

Crystal: reduce one target's save roll by 1d4.

[Griswold]

You've left out the spell component pouch! It already has a benefit: a multiclass Bard/other arcane caster can use it like a focus for both classes. I don't know why every arcane class uses the same set of foci except the bard, but oh well. I think the benefit of the other focuses should be similar in strength.

Staff In addition to an arcane focus, the staff is also a weapon, equivalent to a quarterstaff.

Orb When you cast a Divination spell of 1st level or higher, you also gain the effect of a Guidance spell until the end of your next turn. This effect cannot be combined with the Expert Divination Wizard class feature.

Wand When you cast a spell of 1st level or higher, you may make an Intelligence (Arcana) check against DC 20 as a reaction. If you succeed, you regain 1 sorcery point, and the DC for this effect increases by 1 until you complete a long rest.

Rod When you cast a ritual spell, the spell only takes an additional 5 minutes to cast.

Crystal When you cast a spell of 1st level or higher, you may use your reaction to increase the spell DC by 1 for one target of the spell.

I think your Crystal effect is too powerful, so I'm suggesting a weaker one. What do you think?

[Asmotherion]

So in the Eberron supplement, wood and crystal from manifest planes can give +1 damage to spells or reduce damage received by 1d4. The type of damage you do/reduce depends on the type of manifest zone the material comes from.

It also suggests optional two-handed rules to increase range by 50%.

How would you expand on this in your game?

Weapons differ largely via flavour and by interactions with other items or feats. For instance, any one-handed weapon fits Duelling fighting style and goes with shield. Heavy weapons with GWM, monk weapons with monk abilities, finesse with sneak attack. But there's no reason to take, say, à Wand instead of a staff or an orb, until WgtE.

I'm not ready to try building feats or fighting styles (casting styles?) at the moment, but here are some ideas:

Wand: cantrips that crit roll an additional die for damage

Rod: cantrips' range increase by 50%

Staff: once per spell, reroll any 1s rolled for damage

Orb: when you take spell damage, reduce by 1d4

Crystal: reduce one target's save roll by 1d4.

Two Handed: I generally allow players to cast Two-Handed as a Full Round Action, to add their Spellcasting Modifier to the Damage of Spells. I find it a good Action Ecconomy Balance, and gives a good reason to alternate between One Handed and Two-Handed Castings of Spells.

As for Focci, I suggest the Xenathar minor magical items. Perhaps make them more special by making them Replicate a Cantrip.

-A Stuff could be a Shillelagh Staff for example, but usable by whoever is attuned to it for their own Spellcasting Stat.
-A Wand could be able to Replicate Eldritch Blast, or some other Attack Roll Cantrip of Choice.
-An Orb could be used as a Reaction to Give you your Prof, Bonus to your AC. (As per War Mage)
-A Crystal could, as a Bonus Action give you Resistance to Nonmagical Piercing, Slashing and Bludgeoning.
-A Rod coul have the Friends Cantrip. At the end of the Duration, you can make a Bluff check to prevent the Target from becoming Hostile, as an added Benefit. They instead become Confused and Distrusting of you, unsure if you used Magic to influence their Mood or Not.

Those listed are not playtested material. They might be a bit on the Broken Side.

PS: Alternative Orb: Since the Orb seems a bit too powerful of a Choice, I leave it there, and include this one:

-Orb: Glimpsing at the Future, the Orb allows to cast True Strike as a Bonus Action.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Staff In addition to an arcane focus, the staff is also a weapon, equivalent to a quarterstaff.

Just pointing out that this is already the case.

Pg140 DMG " Unless a staff's description says otherwise, a staff can be used as a quarterstaff"

[Griswold]

Pg140 DMG " Unless a staff's description says otherwise, a staff can be used as a quarterstaff"

You know, I looked around for confirmation of that, and I could not find it. Thanks!

[JackPhoenix]

Two Handed: I generally allow players to cast Two-Handed as a Full Round Action, to add their Spellcasting Modifier to the Damage of Spells. I find it a good Action Ecconomy Balance, and gives a good reason to alternate between One Handed and Two-Handed Castings of Spells.

What Full Round Action? There's no such thing in 5e, and vast majority of spells already requires your action.



Also, there's working version of a thing I've been playing with:

Wandslinger's Implement (comes in wand, rod and staff version). Common magic item
Ranged weapon, range 60', 1d6 damage, special (two-handed for the staff, versatile 1d6 for the rod). 100 gp
Special: You need to know at least two cantrips to be proficient with and to be able to use this weapon. Attacking with this weapon counts as ranged spell attack, using Int modifier for attack rolls. This weapon does 1d6+Int modifier acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison or thunder damage (selected on creation). When used in two hand, the weapon's range is 120'.

This weapon lies halfway between magical foci and "normal" magic wands or staves. Unlike most arcane foci, it's got a magical power of its own and unlike magic wands, it draws upon the user's own magical energy to achieve its effects. It was created during the Last War to make a compromise between training (or re-training) magewrights for months or even years to learn how to cast combat spells, and more expensive magical wands with limited number of charges.

Development notes: The damage and/or range is intentionally lower than most ranged weapons, as you may take advantage of different damage types, it's intentionally worse than cantrips, but offers some extra options to spellcasters, and it's still ranged weapon, with everything that goes with it, so classes with Extra Attack may get some extra effect out of it.

I wonder if "ranged spell attacks with a ranged weapon" could create some unintended consequences. It works with the third point of Sharpshooter, but not with the first two, as those require a weapon attack, it gets cover-ignoring from Spell Sniper, but you need to get spellcasting somehow, but not increased range, and it ignores disadvantage with Crossbow Expert. I think I'm fine with that.

It was made to work with the Arcaneer fighter subclass I've made after WGtE was released. Also, I may or may not have been playing Pillars of Eternity at the time.

[Mjolnirbear]

You've left out the spell component pouch! It already has a benefit: a multiclass Bard/other arcane caster can use it like a focus for both classes. I don't know why every arcane class uses the same set of foci except the bard, but oh well. I think the benefit of the other focuses should be similar in strength.

Staff In addition to an arcane focus, the staff is also a weapon, equivalent to a quarterstaff.

Orb When you cast a Divination spell of 1st level or higher, you also gain the effect of a Guidance spell until the end of your next turn. This effect cannot be combined with the Expert Divination Wizard class feature.

Wand When you cast a spell of 1st level or higher, you may make an Intelligence (Arcana) check against DC 20 as a reaction. If you succeed, you regain 1 sorcery point, and the DC for this effect increases by 1 until you complete a long rest.

Rod When you cast a ritual spell, the spell only takes an additional 5 minutes to cast.

Crystal When you cast a spell of 1st level or higher, you may use your reaction to increase the spell DC by 1 for one target of the spell.

I think your Crystal effect is too powerful, so I'm suggesting a weaker one. What do you think?

I thought it too strong too, but was casting out of my butt for that one. On the other hand, yours costs a reaction but only has a useful effect 5% of the time. Maybe bonus action + 1d4?

I really like your Rod ability though.

My thinking is not to provide spell effects but to improve your magic,like a weapon affects your attacks. Except less, though, because weapons should be superior.

[Mjolnirbear]

Two Handed: I generally allow players to cast Two-Handed as a Full Round Action, to add their Spellcasting Modifier to the Damage of Spells. I find it a good Action Ecconomy Balance, and gives a good reason to alternate between One Handed and Two-Handed Castings of Spells.

As for Focci, I suggest the Xenathar minor magical items. Perhaps make them more special by making them Replicate a Cantrip.

-A Stuff could be a Shillelagh Staff for example, but usable by whoever is attuned to it for their own Spellcasting Stat.
-A Wand could be able to Replicate Eldritch Blast, or some other Attack Roll Cantrip of Choice.
-An Orb could be used as a Reaction to Give you your Prof, Bonus to your AC. (As per War Mage)
-A Crystal could, as a Bonus Action give you Resistance to Nonmagical Piercing, Slashing and Bludgeoning.
-A Rod coul have the Friends Cantrip. At the end of the Duration, you can make a Bluff check to prevent the Target from becoming Hostile, as an added Benefit. They instead become Confused and Distrusting of you, unsure if you used Magic to influence their Mood or Not.

Those listed are not playtested material. They might be a bit on the Broken Side.

PS: Alternative Orb: Since the Orb seems a bit too powerful of a Choice, I leave it there, and include this one:

-Orb: Glimpsing at the Future, the Orb allows to cast True Strike as a Bonus Action.

I think your ideas would be great for common magic items, but my intent was "shaping your magic" not casting magic. If focuses are confiscated like weapons it would be cool if you could look at someone and say "he's carrying a wand; he favours cantrips with attack rolls" or something like that.

But what do I know? I asked how you'd do it in *your* games lol. Thanks for the suggestions, and I *am* always looking for more Common magic items

[Mjolnirbear]

What Full Round Action? There's no such thing in 5e, and vast majority of spells already requires your action.



Also, there's working version of a thing I've been playing with:

Wandslinger's Implement (comes in wand, rod and staff version). Common magic item
Ranged weapon, range 60', 1d6 damage, special (two-handed for the staff, versatile 1d6 for the rod). 100 gp
Special: You need to know at least two cantrips to be proficient with and to be able to use this weapon. Attacking with this weapon counts as ranged spell attack, using Int modifier for attack rolls. This weapon does 1d6+Int modifier acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison or thunder damage (selected on creation). When used in two hand, the weapon's range is 120'.

This weapon lies halfway between magical foci and "normal" magic wands or staves. Unlike most arcane foci, it's got a magical power of its own and unlike magic wands, it draws upon the user's own magical energy to achieve its effects. It was created during the Last War to make a compromise between training (or re-training) magewrights for months or even years to learn how to cast combat spells, and more expensive magical wands with limited number of charges.

Development notes: The damage and/or range is intentionally lower than most ranged weapons, as you may take advantage of different damage types, it's intentionally worse than cantrips, but offers some extra options to spellcasters, and it's still ranged weapon, with everything that goes with it, so classes with Extra Attack may get some extra effect out of it.

I wonder if "ranged spell attacks with a ranged weapon" could create some unintended consequences. It works with the third point of Sharpshooter, but not with the first two, as those require a weapon attack, it gets cover-ignoring from Spell Sniper, but you need to get spellcasting somehow, but not increased range, and it ignores disadvantage with Crossbow Expert. I think I'm fine with that.

It was made to work with the Arcaneer fighter subclass I've made after WGtE was released. Also, I may or may not have been playing Pillars of Eternity at the time.

Why would your player use this instead of a Cantrip? Pillars is a great game, BTW.

I could see it being useful when you need, say, acid for a troll, or cold damage to activate the macguffin. It could work in silence, I assume?

You know that paladin's and rangers could not use it, was this intended?

[Griswold]

I thought it too strong too, but was casting out of my butt for that one. On the other hand, yours costs a reaction but only has a useful effect 5% of the time. Maybe bonus action + 1d4?

Good point. I think using the bonus action would be fine. That or make it +1d6 and make it once per short rest.


I really like your Rod ability though.

Thanks! It's the kind of thing which feels really powerful. But, when I really think about it, it doesn't seem like a big deal: when is the difference between 5 and 10 minutes going to matter a lot?

[Mjolnirbear]

Good point. I think using the bonus action would be fine. That or make it +1d6 and make it once per short rest.



Thanks! It's the kind of thing which feels really powerful. But, when I really think about it, it doesn't seem like a big deal: when is the difference between 5 and 10 minutes going to matter a lot?

It's not, they're both out-of-combat times anyways. You could make it, say, one minute: enough that if you had serious need you could cast it in combat, but that seems both too op and kinda niche... When would you be so desperate for any ritual that you'd use 10 rounds casting it but not one spell slot?

So maybe the crystal and orb passively store magical energy in their matrices. Spend the orb's energy once per short rest as a bonus action to subtract 1d6 from one target's spell save; and spend the crystal's energy once per long rest to cast a ritual spell as a ritual in only one round.

[JackPhoenix]

Why would your player use this instead of a Cantrip? Pillars is a great game, BTW.

I could see it being useful when you need, say, acid for a troll, or cold damage to activate the macguffin. It could work in silence, I assume?

You know that paladin's and rangers could not use it, was this intended?

Multiple possible reasons. They may need different energy type (as you've mentioned, not only because the enemy may be vulnerable, but also if the enemy is immune to what you have.. less of a problem for warlocks (because Eldritch Blast) and sorcerers (because more cantrips) than for wizards or EK/AT. Or, as the fluff suggests, they have utility instead of combat cantrips... not that unusual from my experience. Also works for people with Magic Initiate, NPC magewrights and wandslingers as described in the WGtE.

Paladins and rangers not being able to use it isn't a purpose, but it's not a problem either. They aren't really the intended audience.

[Griswold]

So maybe the crystal and orb passively store magical energy in their matrices. Spend the orb's energy once per short rest as a bonus action to subtract 1d6 from one target's spell save; and spend the crystal's energy once per long rest to cast a ritual spell as a ritual in only one round.

Those both sound perfect. The flavor is good too. I was a bit worried about why you wouldn't just carry around all the different foci, and switch when you wanted each bonus. But if it's building up from ambient leftover energy as you cast spells, you can make it that you can only use one of the foci per short rest.

[Tetrasodium]

So in the Eberron supplement, wood and crystal from manifest planes can give +1 damage to spells or reduce damage received by 1d4. The type of damage you do/reduce depends on the type of manifest zone the material comes from.

It also suggests optional two-handed rules to increase range by 50%.

How would you expand on this in your game?

Weapons differ largely via flavour and by interactions with other items or feats. For instance, any one-handed weapon fits Duelling fighting style and goes with shield. Heavy weapons with GWM, monk weapons with monk abilities, finesse with sneak attack. But there's no reason to take, say, à Wand instead of a staff or an orb, until WgtE.

I'm not ready to try building feats or fighting styles (casting styles?) at the moment, but here are some ideas:

Wand: cantrips that crit roll an additional die for damage

Rod: cantrips' range increase by 50%

Staff: once per spell, reroll any 1s rolled for damage

Orb: when you take spell damage, reduce by 1d4

Crystal: reduce one target's save roll by 1d4.


I would not use any of your suggestions & use it exactly as written in wgte. the effect is already +1 damage to a given element when using one of the staffs & -1d4 to a given element when holding the orb with no attunement requirements on either the rod/staff when 3 handed adds 50% range to offensive cantrips that require an attack roll or saving throw & meets the somatic requirements when doing so. Combined with the lack of attunement requirement, the benefits are fine. I'm not sure why you think they need to be further improved.

edit: typo'd a 1 as a 2

[Mjolnirbear]

I would not use any of your suggestions & use it exactly as written in wgte. the effect is already +2 damage to a given element when using one of the staffs & -1d4 to a given element when holding the orb with no attunement requirements on either the rod/staff when 3 handed adds 50% range to offensive cantrips that require an attack roll or saving throw & meets the somatic requirements when doing so. Combined with the lack of attunement requirement, the benefits are fine. I'm not sure why you think they need to be further improved.

I thought it was +1?

They don't *need* to be improved.

When you build a warrior-type, how do you choose a weapon? Part of it is image, for me. I've never equipped my characters with a club. Longswords are boring. I often go with axes or polearms. Because they offer cool mental images. For arcane foci, we are left with staff and wand, depending if we want Gandalf or Harry Potter.

Then there are mechanics. A battle-axe leaves a hand free for a shield or for spellcasting,while a polearm does more damage and has more range but is less versatile.

There's also feat and fighting style, but I don't feel like making those for implements and besides, no need to take away all the martials' toys. The problem is that there's no reason to differentiate, say, a rod over a crystal. Every caster in this edition that I've made has used the component pouch. Because it's versatile. It can hold pricey material components. It hangs on the belt, easily accessed and out of the way, meaning I don't need to hold it constantly and my hand is free for other actions.

The purpose of my post is to offer a reason to choose one of the other five focuses. What makes rod different than wand, or orb different than crystal? Give choices. They needn't be strong choices, but they should be better than 'pick at random' or 'pick based on cost'.

[Tetrasodium]

I thought it was +1?

They don't *need* to be improved.

When you build a warrior-type, how do you choose a weapon? Part of it is image, for me. I've never equipped my characters with a club. Longswords are boring. I often go with axes or polearms. Because they offer cool mental images. For arcane foci, we are left with staff and wand, depending if we want Gandalf or Harry Potter.

Then there are mechanics. A battle-axe leaves a hand free for a shield or for spellcasting,while a polearm does more damage and has more range but is less versatile.

There's also feat and fighting style, but I don't feel like making those for implements and besides, no need to take away all the martials' toys. The problem is that there's no reason to differentiate, say, a rod over a crystal. Every caster in this edition that I've made has used the component pouch. Because it's versatile. It can hold pricey material components. It hangs on the belt, easily accessed and out of the way, meaning I don't need to hold it constantly and my hand is free for other actions.

The purpose of my post is to offer a reason to choose one of the other five focuses. What makes rod different than wand, or orb different than crystal? Give choices. They needn't be strong choices, but they should be better than 'pick at random' or 'pick based on cost'.


I typo'd a 1 as a 2 , fixed that. Yea thew focus options & suh on that wgte page are awesome. the only thing I'd add is make it explicit that you can use a staff as a club/quarterstaff or a rod as a club/mace too. but you can already use an arcane staff as a quarterstaff (at 10gp vrs 2sp it's hardly a concern) as that would be useful for gish types who want martial with some spells Counting them as such means that you could use them for things like parry & other while wielding a weapon abilities work for multiclass & gishy types like EK/AT.

Unfortunately there are basically no feats for those of a martial bent who have whatever reason to eschew martial weapons in favor of arcane/divine spells. They've got warcaster, crossbow expert to let them make point blank ranged spell attacks without disadvantage, & that's about it for enhancing that caster stuff

[Arvin Natsuko]

They don't *need* to be improved.

When you build a warrior-type, how do you choose a weapon? Part of it is image, for me. I've never equipped my characters with a club. Longswords are boring. I often go with axes or polearms. Because they offer cool mental images. For arcane foci, we are left with staff and wand, depending if we want Gandalf or Harry Potter.

Then there are mechanics. A battle-axe leaves a hand free for a shield or for spellcasting,while a polearm does more damage and has more range but is less versatile.

There's also feat and fighting style, but I don't feel like making those for implements and besides, no need to take away all the martials' toys. The problem is that there's no reason to differentiate, say, a rod over a crystal. Every caster in this edition that I've made has used the component pouch. Because it's versatile. It can hold pricey material components. It hangs on the belt, easily accessed and out of the way, meaning I don't need to hold it constantly and my hand is free for other actions.

The purpose of my post is to offer a reason to choose one of the other five focuses. What makes rod different than wand, or orb different than crystal? Give choices. They needn't be strong choices, but they should be better than 'pick at random' or 'pick based on cost'.

Your own post anwer the question you made: "What makes rod different than wand, or orb different than crystal?"

Well, the same thing that makes you pick an axe over a longsword, a warhammer or a war pike: "Because they offer cool mental images". It's the same with arcane foci, the "Gandalf or Harry Potter" feel.

I really don't think casters need more free power. The Eberron book offers magic items, what I think is a need, with all the magic weapons and only War Wand and Pact Rod for casters. But for non-magical equipment, seems like too much.

[Mjolnirbear]

Your own post anwer the question you made: "What makes rod different than wand, or orb different than crystal?"

Well, the same thing that makes you pick an axe over a longsword, a warhammer or a war pike: "Because they offer cool mental images". It's the same with arcane foci, the "Gandalf or Harry Potter" feel.

I really don't think casters need more free power. The Eberron book offers magic items, what I think is a need, with all the magic weapons and only War Wand and Pact Rod for casters. But for non-magical equipment, seems like too much.

Even ignoring feats and fighting styles, there is still choice involved in choosing a weapon. You choose a rapier for finesse, a glaive for range, a javelin for a strength thrown weapon, and so on. The choices matter. They need not be powerful, but I'd like it to be meaningful.

And it fits the lore. In WgtE, wandslingers 'choose their focus like a duelist chooses his weapon'.

But hey, if its not for you, that's fine

[Arvin Natsuko]

Even ignoring feats and fighting styles, there is still choice involved in choosing a weapon. You choose a rapier for finesse, a glaive for range, a javelin for a strength thrown weapon, and so on. The choices matter. They need not be powerful, but I'd like it to be meaningful.

And it fits the lore. In WgtE, wandslingers 'choose their focus like a duelist chooses his weapon'.

But hey, if its not for you, that's fine

The types of weapons (reach, finesse, etc) are like the types of cantrips. One wandslinger chooses firebolt, other eldrith blast, or even chocking grasp.

I am just debating the logic and balance of it. You can add flavor without mechanics.

But hey, if its not for you, that's fine.