Striker (Base Class, and some feats)

[boomwolf]

The striker, an expert of attack, capable of landing multiple hits with high accuracy, yet with lacking power.
these speed lunatics are the best assassin and hunters in the world, white they don't have the strength of fellow front-liners they cover it with speed, evading and accuracy. they work in the open, jest too fast for anyone to respond to them.
if you ever player "heroes of might and magic 5", look at the dungeons "blood maiden", THATS a striker. (and a good one too...)


Hit Die: d8


The Striker
{table=head]Level|Base Attack<br>Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+0|Weapon Finesse feat

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+0|Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+3|
+1|-

4th|
+4|
+1|
+4|
+1|+5 base movement speed.

5th|
+5|
+1|
+5|
+1|Striker's Speed.

6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+5|
+2|Evasion

7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+6|
+2|-

8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+6|
+2|Striker's Swiftness

9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+7|
+3|+5 base movement speed

10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+8|
+3|+1 Striker's Speed.

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+8|
+3|-

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+9|
+4|Improved Evasion

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+9|
+4|+5 base movement speed

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+4|
+10|
+4|-

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+11|
+5|+1 Striker's Speed.

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+11|
+5|Improved Striker's Swiftness

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+12|
+5|-

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+12|
+6|+5 base movement speed

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+13|
+6|-

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+14|
+6|+1 Striker's Speed.[/table]


Weapon and Armor Proficiency
Strikers are proficient with all Small weapons (including exotics), plus the rapier ,scimitar ,whip and spiked chain. Strikers are proficient with light armor, but not with shields.

Class Skills:
Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Jump (Str), Sleight Of Hand (Dex), Tumble (Dex), Spot (Wis), Search (Int).

Points for first level: (4+Int modifier)x4
Points for each other level: 4+Int modifier


Special Abilitys:

Strikers Speed:
At 5th level, once per day, a Striker can make a full attack and move his base speed. He may move before, after, or in between attacks.
Every five levels thereafter, the Striker gains another use of this ability (2/day at level 10, 3/day at level 15, and so on.)

Strikers Swiftness:
when an opponent misses a non-ranged attack on you you may take an instant attack upon him while using no BAB, taking a -2 penalty on the attack. if you choose not to you gain +2 dodge bonus against that target to this round.

Improved Strikers Swiftness:
when an opponent misses a non-ranged attack on you you may take an instant attack upon him while using no BAB, taking a no penalty on the attack. if you choose not to you gain +3 dodge bonus against that target to this round. (in short, Strikers Swiftness but taking no penalty on attack and getting a bigger dodge bonus.)



New Feats:

Superior Cleave [General]

Prerequisites
Dex 17, Great Cleave, base attack bonus +10.

Benefit
This feat works like Great Cleave, except that you also gain an additional attack after each critical hit.

Special
A fighter may select Superior Cleave as one of his fighter bonus feats.


Improved Dodge [General]

Prerequisites
Dex 17, Dodge.

Benefit
This feat works like Dodge, except that you gain the dodge bonus from all opponents you are aware of.


Rusher Magic [general]
speed and intelligence lead some to the natural ability to cast speed controlling spells.

Prerequisites
Dex 17, Int 17.

Benefit
Having this feat allows you to cast the spell haste once per day. if counts as though as the user's caster level is 5, regardless of what it really is.

Special
Non-spellcasters may use this feat as well.



Bloody Fighting [General]
some people thing the best way to disarm a man is to stab him in his hand.

Prerequisites
Base Attack Bonus +10, Int 15+.

Benefit
upon every attack you may choose to take a -10 penalty on your attack roll and choose an arm of the opponent, if you hit that opponent drops whatever he hold in that arm (he is disarmed.)

Special
A fighter may select Bloody Fighting as one of his fighter bonus feats.

[StickMan]

Well I think you need to fix the base attack bonus, what you have is well award and game changing. Give them a fighters base attack bonus and a monks furry of blows usable with weapons. Strikers speed seems like a lot all at once, I think you should tone it down a bit at low levels and increases it in more steps. Lastly you have a lot of dead levels it would be nice to see them filled in.

Over all I like the idea, I think it just needs a little more development.\

Stickman

[Reptilius]

Your Rusher Magic feat is not metamagic. Metamgic feats alter existing spells, while this spell gives one of two (spell-like?) abilities every day. Simply remove the metamagic tag. Also, what is the caster level/spellcasting stat of the spells? Is it meant for everyone, or just casters?

[Spiryt]

Well, running with insane speed and making big amount of attacks in 6 seconds?

Kinda weird, even for D&D. General idea of this class is better for PrC in my opinion. Yes, i think it could be great prestige class, but it doesn't fit as base class.

I really like your feats, I always liked something that require high intelligence, yet is useful in combat ( 0 such feats in most books, I think)

However, Bloody Fighting is little too good, I think. 1 full round with no power attack and other stuff, and every enemy with not too insane AC is disarmed.

Rusher Magic is a little not worth it on the othe hand. Needs work. Indeed, you should say how long it last (usually depends on level).

Also, while whole idea is good, you should change mechanic a little I think. It doesn't seem reasonable that having high Int allows somebody who can't cast any other spell ability to slow somebody.
My humble proposition is to make it haste (self only) but instead with longer duration/more times per day.

[JackMage666]

It's too much. Too many attacks and too much movement. The fact you can move your full speed and make a full attack makes it too powerful, especially at only level 10. It's not that I don't like the Striker's Speed/Improved version, it's that there isn't a limit. You can do it 1000 times a day. At the same time, theres items or spells that let you do it as well, but they're limited to daily uses. I'd set them up with something like...

Striker's Speed (Ex.) - At 5th level, once per day, a Striker can make a full attack and move his base speed. He may move before, after, or in between attacks.
Every five levels thereafter, the Striker gains another use of this ability (2/day at level 10, 3/day at level 15, and so on.)

Should be alot more balancing. Also, no 5-foot step, as the 5-foot step is only allowed when no other movement is done.

EDIT: And fix the BAB and Reflex save. Stick to the common standards for these things.

[KillianHawkeye]

Also, why do you suddenly start to get +Initiative starting at level 17? It kinda feels like it was just thrown in at the end. The abilities should be spread out more evenly, or make it a 10-level PrC.

[Finerty]

Per day = gross.
Make it once per encounter or once every 2d4 rounds.

[boomwolf]

many intresting comments....

giving him fighter BAB? nope. the whole point is having it higher. if it would be same as fighter they you could jest build an avarage fighter to have about the same abilitys.

flurry of blows? nope...i am not for that...the point is having a lot of ACCURATE blows, in the expense of the ability to take hits. (your low armor proficiency and hit points forces you to Dex over Con.)

rusher magic-you are absolutely right. fixed it. (and i think the true worth of it is allowing non-casters to gain these spells.)

bloody fighting- you suggest higher then 10 penalty for the attacks? the first attack will be good with it, second pretty bad, third really lucky, and forth/fifth will take a natural 20 to actually get it. perhaps it too good, but i dont see how to make it weaker yet not usless.

+2 initiative-i admit, its a filler. handy one due...and quite fitting...

strikers speed-JackMage666, i'll take your suggestion. seems more fair.

added an additional ability (and improved version) for making it more unique, Striker's Swiftness. now all that dodging really pays off.

[Finerty]

My comment against per/day referred to Striker's Speed. Once per encounter or once every xd4 rounds are very underused ways of granting limited access to abilities.

[boomwolf]

true. but "once per encounter" is a troublesome effect, as you need to define encounter. when does one end and second start? if a second group joined in the middle, then you killed the first group, is that a new encounter?
if you fight non-stop enemy's while advancing, where is the new encounter?
besides its a powerful ability, no reason why not to limit it to per day usage, it is only NEEDED a few times every fight. with level 20 having 4 uses of it, its quite all you ever need.

[Vadin]

I kind of hate saying this, but D8 HD and light armor is NOT the same thing as not being able to take hits. Maybe if he had a D4 HD I could see a shimmer of justification in giving him this ludicrous and game-breaking BAB, but as it stands he's a fighter with a broken reflex save, average HD, and an unexplainable BAB.

Might I suggest instead (in the sake of this being at all balanced) taking a fighter, giving him a gradual speed increase like the monk, and a flurry of blows ability usable with all weapons?

[Spiryt]

I agree with Vadin, with weapon finesse and his silly attack bonus he can even dump strenght if he like. With 20 dex (not so hard) leather armor is only 1 AC worse than full plate. Also much cheaper and you at least have any touch AC (against mages f.e.). And 8sided hit dice also doesn't make him fragile. In fact with any balanced system of hit points it's only av. 4/lev against 5/lev. 15 Hp less on 15 level? Not so much. And with standard "blind luck" HP rolling system he can as well have more hit points than barbarian.


And about Rusher magic... I still think that it should be only haste and only self, beacuse slowing/speeding someone else cannot be explained by speed and intelligence.

If not, then you know, intelligent and dexterous fisherman can catch fishes without rod, just slow them down.

About isnpiration...

Well Heroes 5 is much better game than I expected, with many great ideas, but blood maidens aren't one of them. Run whole battlefield, strike a guy, turn around and return to starting position ?
Maybe as well fix a boot lace on a way back. It certainly had unbind during it...

EDIT: Oh, and I still think that it is good material for prestige class not base class.

[boomwolf]

hummm....

what will happen if i take his hit die to d6? will that be more balanced or still wont cut?

you seem to be right on the rusher magic...but then i should increace its "cast level" to make it cover-up for no choice. ok...done that..

anyway, what do you think of the new "Strikers Swiftness" ability?

BTW- every heroes game had a variant of these...the heroes 3 harpies were the REAL troublemaker (fly nearly full screen, hit hard, go back.)

[Spiryt]

Well I'm not good at this, but maybe more times per day than one would be better? 5 rounds per day is not so great after all. But about it should deem some more experienced gamer.


Yeah, but harpies were flying and don't have range of whole map... They were interesting (although v. annoying - my father hated them :smallwink: ). And I don't recall anything like that in H1 or H2
Blood maidens are just ridiculous. *


*Look kids, thats how off topic looks like (http://www.connectwithkids.com/images/landing/education-teacher.gif)

[Vadin]

Honestly, man, at this point hp isnt the problem. You need saves that follow the rules, BAB that follows the rules, and abilities that don't let the class kill absolutely everything with no way of ever being stopped beforehand.

In short, stop giving him abilities are very powerful that cover his only possible weaknesses and then claiming that those weaknesses justify the abilities. That would make the class more balanced.

[Spiryt]

Well, I wouldn't say that this class is so powerfull, but indeed with such base attack bonus have cheese potential.

However I really wonder what
instant attack upon him while using no BAB

means?

[Generic PC]

one other point... you said that the Predator can only wear light Armour, no shields. I assume you mean Striker? yes. also, i agree this would make an amazing PrC

[boomwolf]

yea...i knew i forgot to change the name somewhere...tnx for pointing it out...

that "with no BAB" means you ignore your BAB for it, considering it as though as you have 0 for that attack.

[JackMage666]

Also, you skill's are off... It should only be 2+Int modifier for skills, not 4. They only have 8 class skills. Clerics have 10 (or more) and only have 2+Int, so a class with only 8 skills should not get 4+int.

Also, the BAB is a problem. You get an extra attack over every other class in the game, in every way. You even get more attacks as an 18th level Striker than a 30th level Fighter would get. It's not totally gamebreaking, when you start thinking about Wizards, but it is pushing aside all other Melee classes, dramatically. Reflex also needs to be reduced to normal levels, as it, too, is too high. For example, a Scout, who gets better when he moves,has good reflex saves, and the Striker's is higher than a Scouts. Strikers don't get more precise with movement, but they do move more. So, while I agree to Good Reflex saves, Highest reflex saves available isn't fair.

[boomwolf]

i fail to see why you must have more class skills to have more skill points. the normal agenda is "more skills, but not well focused" nobody really uses it and everybody takes a few well focused skills, so is the striker, few skills, but lots of point to put into them.


Vadin-saw it only now...and i dont understand what abiltys cover his only possible weakness.
also-why wont lower hit die matter? he will be more valuable to aggressive spells.


jack-somebody always has "best scores available" its a question of who. and the striker has "worse scores available" for a front-liner hit-die. striker is DESINGED to be the fastest, so making him "in par" losses the point. what i am trying to do is to cover it out with weaknesses other front-liners don't have.
the question is finding how to put it in the balance, and i KNOW currently in needs tuning down.
even lower fort/will saves?
even lower hit-die?
if you compare lvl 20 striker to lvl 20 fighter, the striker has only 4 more BAB and 2 more ref, yet lower fort and far less feats. am i missing something on the striker? some unintentional synergy that i didn't see and is too powerfull?

[StickMan]

if you compare lvl 20 striker to lvl 20 fighter, the striker has only 4 more BAB and 2 more ref, yet lower fort and far less feats. am i missing something on the striker? some unintentional synergy that i didn't see and is too powerfull?

That 4 extra BAB is game breaking. Why cause the game is not set up for it. You take feats and get in to prestige classes earlier because of it, which is just very trouble some. There is a reason that no publish class has a BAB higher than the fighters. The same things go for the Reflex save to a lesser degree.

You need more class skills, that is just a really small list its not your biggest issue in the least, but its still a little off.

At the end of the day if you have a DM who will let you play thing class great for you. But about 98% of DND players are going to look at your class and think it is poorly written or at least broken, as long as you have the Base Attack Bonus and Reflex as you do.

[boomwolf]

sigh.

i thought YOU people are not so systematic. once something is slightly different you all go "wha! its different! cant be!"

and the "prestige classes earlier" thing, most poeple take them BEFORE level 10 anyway right? untill level 10 you have 1 more BAB, in 10 its 2, not 4. 4 is a level 20, no more prestige classes for you at that level. at least say stuff that are fitting.

the REAL reason nobody has greater BAB then fighters is because they wanted fighters to have the best. not because it makes problems, as it dosent, BAB is NEVER a problem for getting them. usually it holds you for an additional level after the skill requirements at most, and most times you dont even NEED a BAB, or you can get the amount needed before you can get the skills.


any way...after looking through the posts again i see that its quite disreable as a prestige class version...so i am working on a 10-lvl prestige class version, then i could truly compare them.

[Vadin]

the REAL reason nobody has greater BAB then fighters is because they wanted fighters to have the best. not because it makes problems, as it dosent, BAB is NEVER a problem for getting them. usually it holds you for an additional level after the skill requirements at most, and most times you dont even NEED a BAB, or you can get the amount needed before you can get the skills.

It's not that the fighter has the highest BAB, as there many many classes with a full (+1 BAB/+1 level) BAB. But that's it. The game isn't setup up to have 5/4 BAB characters running around.

At this point, are you actually open to changing the class, or do you feel that it is done and complete and shouldn't be revised?

[StickMan]

Ok I'm just going to bring Flurry of blows back up for one second.

Your classes attacks at level 20 +24/+19/+14/+9/+4.
A Flurry of Blows with fighter BAB +20/+20/+20/+15/+10/+5.

Now are you still sure you don't like Flurry. Ask your self which set of attacks you want, cause I would want the second one as it gets more attacks that are over all more accurate. Plus its game legal, well kind of.

[boomwolf]

and it will be even STRONGER, and over-power seems like the problem.

the point is-i want to tune down power WITHOUT changing the core of the class, and all you do is say "change the whole idea", THAT wont work...

[JackMage666]

But we're not saying change the whole idea, we're saying fix it to the common standard. The fact that he gets two things higher than everyone else in the game is absurd. I get you want something powerful, but if you want to make something to go with a pre-built system, you need to follow the standards. There are 3 Kinds of BAB (Poor, Average, and Good), and 2 Kinds of saves (Poor and Good). Make a whole other tier to it pushes it beyond what it should be. Also, it's removing several of the core (and some non-core) classes. It's faster than the Scout, moves more, and hits harder. It's more accurate than the Fighter, is more mobile, and often going to be better protected - Dex is his most important stat, easily, which helps him hit more often, gives him AC, and increases almost all of his class skills.
And his skills are still too high. He has 1/2 his class skills mastered with only 10 Int (8 if Human), and has them all mastered with 18 (16 if human). Plus, I never noticed before, but you gave him proficiency with the most broken weapon in the game - the Spiked Chain, for free. Two Feats (Combat Expertise and Improved Trip), and this guy is easily dominating most battlefields. By 1st level, even, a Human Striker can do this, easily a well, due to being able to apply Weapon Finesse to the spiked chain.
It's not that we don't like your idea, it's just you have to stick to certain standards. That's one of the problems with the d20 system, is that it's rather rigid. But, seriously, if you give it standard good BAB and a standard good Reflex save, would it change the class that much, really? It would be the same thing, a mobile fighter who hits hard, without automatically outshining all the other meleeists.

[Vadin]

Giving it a rules-legal BAB and save isn't 'changing the whole class'. In fact, all it is is toning it down to an acceptable and legal level.