[3.5] Boots of Just Striding

[Allanimal]

I have a player in the game I DM who's character wants boots of striding and springing, but without the springing part. In other words, +10 movement speed always on, but doesn't care about a bonus to jumping. I'm OK with that, but trying to figure out the pricing.

Normally, it's 5500 gp. The guidelines of magic item creation suggest the +5 jump bonus is priced at 2500 and the +10 movement speed is 2000 gp (always on 1st level spell Longstrider with hours/level duration in an appropriate body slot.). The multiple abilities should x2 the higher cost part making it 7000. So using the item pricing guidelines is a bit off from the price in the DMG (as is typical, I know).

I find 2000 to low for the speed bonus, and I probably wouldn't pay 2500 (definitely not 5000) for +5 to jump...

I'm thinking that the "Boots of Just Striding" should be about 4000 gp.

Three examples from the MiC:
* The Quickness property of armour adds +5 to speed for 5000 gp.
* The Crystal of Alacrity adds +5 bonus to land speed for 3500 gp.
* Then there is the panther mask, adds +5 bonus to land speed for 2700 gp.

There may be others, but I think these three justify my thoughts that 2000 gp is much too low.

What do you think? Is there an item I missed that is closer to what I'm looking for?

Thanks for your help.

[Bronk]

There may be others, but I think these three justify my thoughts that 2000 gp is much too low.

What do you think? Is there an item I missed that is closer to what I'm looking for?

Thanks for your help.

Well, on the one hand, you have the Arms and Equipment Guide telling us that adding a feat to a magic item is worth 10000 gold, and there are a bunch of feats out there that will grant you +5ft to speed.

On the other hand, the Horseshoes of Speed - right in the PHB/SRD along with the Boots of Striding and Springing you mentioned - grant +30ft to speed for only 3000 gold.

So, its a bit all over the place.

[Malimar]

Nobody has ever bought a Boots of Striding and Springing for the springing. It's like the bonus to Heal checks from the Belt of Healing: nobody ever even remembers it's there; it would be functionally the same item without it.

I wouldn't go any lower than 5000 for Boots Of Just Striding.

[Troacctid]

Boots of the Unending Journey are 4000 gp for +10 enhancement to speed.

[zlefin]

I agree 4k is about right given the game's typical formulas plus some adhoc adjustment.
It occurs to me that the +10 speed itself gives a +4 bonus to jump checks.

5k would be fine too really; as the boots are mostly taken for the striding part, and jump checks just don't scale well enough for jump to be a good skill.

[PrismCat21]

Normally, it's 5500 gp. The guidelines of magic item creation suggest the +5 jump bonus is priced at 2500 and the +10 movement speed is 2000 gp (always on 1st level spell Longstrider with hours/level duration in an appropriate body slot.).
I was given this formula. I don't know if this is right or not, but seems good. -
1(spell lvl)*1(caster lvl)*2000(perm)*2(1min/level)=4000g


Three examples from the MiC:
* The Quickness property of armour adds +5 to speed for 5000 gp.
* The Crystal of Alacrity adds +5 bonus to land speed for 3500 gp.
* Then there is the panther mask, adds +5 bonus to land speed for 2700 gp.
Be sure the check the type of bonus provided. Enhancement, moral, inherent, ect...
The more uncommon ones 'should' be more expensive than easy to find ones.


On the other hand, the Horseshoes of Speed - right in the PHB/SRD along with the Boots of Striding and Springing you mentioned - grant +30ft to speed for only 3000 gold.
Don't they also specify that all four must be worn on hooves, and the creature an animal?


Boots of the Unending Journey are 4000 gp for +10 enhancement to speed.
Good find. Also has a restriction of being at least partially Neutral.

-
I personally wouldn't go lower than 5k for boots of just striding.
I would suggest an absolute minimum of 4k for you.
Keep an eye on the different types of bonuses. They can add up quick.

[Bronk]

Don't they also specify that all four must be worn on hooves, and the creature an animal?


Sort of! They say they have to be worn by the same animal. Still, it's quite a jump up in bonus for a much reduced price, and the effect can be added to other magic items using the rules in the MIC.

[CharonsHelper]

Nobody has ever bought a Boots of Striding and Springing for the springing. It's like the bonus to Heal checks from the Belt of Healing: nobody ever even remembers it's there; it would be functionally the same item without it.

I wouldn't go any lower than 5000 for Boots Of Just Striding.

This.

Outside of niche builds and the very occasional circumstance - the only reason anyone picks up the boots is for the +10 movement speed.

I'd just say that they aren't available, but if he's a caster with Craft: Wondrous Object he can spend a few weeks researching it at the cost of 500gp or so and eventually get a 5k price on it.

Frankly - it's like asking for cheaper magic weapons/armor if the enchantment doesn't increase their hardness. That's not what they're purchased for - so losing it shouldn't be a significant discount.

[Deophaun]

Normally, it's 5500 gp. The guidelines of magic item creation suggest the +5 jump bonus is priced at 2500 and the +10 movement speed is 2000 gp (always on 1st level spell Longstrider with hours/level duration in an appropriate body slot.)
Longstrider grants an enhancement bonus, which won't stack with things like a monk's speed bonus, expeditious retreat, or haste. The bonus granted by the boots is untyped. That at least warrants a doubling of the cost.

[PrismCat21]

Sort of! They say they have to be worn by the same animal. Still, it's quite a jump up in bonus for a much reduced price, and the effect can be added to other magic items using the rules in the MIC.

But wouldn't the limitation still be part of the effect? It wouldn't work on those other magic items unless they were on all four hooves of the same creature: type Animal.

We could come up with some fun combinations with this.
Cloak of Elvenkind with the horseshoe's effect, cut into four pieces. Each piece wrapped around a hoof.
Makes the horse super sneaky and super fast at the same time.
Just a blur in the woods... :P

[Bronk]

But wouldn't the limitation still be part of the effect? It wouldn't work on those other magic items unless they were on all four hooves of the same creature: type Animal.

We could come up with some fun combinations with this.
Cloak of Elvenkind with the horseshoe's effect, cut into four pieces. Each piece wrapped around a hoof.
Makes the horse super sneaky and super fast at the same time.
Just a blur in the woods... :P

That sounds totally awesome.

[Allanimal]

Boots of the Unending Journey are 4000 gp for +10 enhancement to speed.

Excellent, thanks. What book is that from?


I was given this formula. I don't know if this is right or not, but seems good. -
1(spell lvl)*1(caster lvl)*2000(perm)*2(1min/level)=4000g

Longstrider, the spell that is needed for the boots, is hours per level, so the pricing guidelines don't use the last *2. But in this case I think everyone agrees it should, if not more.



Be sure the check the type of bonus provided. Enhancement, moral, inherent, ect...
The more uncommon ones 'should' be more expensive than easy to find ones.


Excellent point that I didn't even think about.



I personally wouldn't go lower than 5k for boots of just striding.
I would suggest an absolute minimum of 4k for you.
Keep an eye on the different types of bonuses. They can add up quick.

Thanks - good advice!


Longstrider grants an enhancement bonus, which won't stack with things like a monk's speed bonus, expeditious retreat, or haste. The bonus granted by the boots is untyped. That at least warrants a doubling of the cost.

This is excellent advice.

So, what about 4000 gp as an enhancement bonus, 5000 gp as some other type, or untyped bonus?

[PrismCat21]

So, what about 4000 gp as an enhancement bonus, 5000 gp as some other type, or untyped bonus?

For untyped, I'd say at least 10k.
Some type other than enhancement, at least 5k.

[Troacctid]

Excellent, thanks. What book is that from?

Magic Item Compendium.


For untyped, I'd say at least 10k.
Some type other than enhancement, at least 5k.
Shaundakul's Boots (Magic of Faerun) are right there for 6300 gp giving a +10 untyped bonus to speed and other bonuses, so I don't think so.

You're also assuming that Boots of Striding and Springing are priced correctly to begin with, which I think is a pretty bold assumption.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I'd just go with the 3k for pulling the skill boost. No need to over-complicate things.

[Zaq]

Longstrider grants an enhancement bonus, which won't stack with things like a monk's speed bonus, expeditious retreat, or haste. The bonus granted by the boots is untyped. That at least warrants a doubling of the cost.

Erm, what?


Boots of Striding and Springing
These boots increase the wearer’s base land speed by 10 feet. In addition to this striding ability (considered an enhancement bonus), these boots allow the wearer to make great leaps. She can jump with a +5 competence bonus on Jump checks.

Emphasis mine. Am I misreading you?

[Deophaun]

Emphasis mine. Am I misreading you?
Question: Is it Berenstein or Berenstain? Because I swear to Pelor I checked this a week ago and those words were not there.

[Goaty14]

Don't they also specify that all four must be worn on hooves, and the creature an animal?

I know I sound stupid saying this, but couldn't you use UMD to act like you were an animal for the horseshoes to work?

[Troacctid]

I know I sound stupid saying this, but couldn't you use UMD to act like you were an animal for the horseshoes to work?
You'd still have to have hooves.

[Glimbur]

Sort of! They say they have to be worn by the same animal. Still, it's quite a jump up in bonus for a much reduced price, and the effect can be added to other magic items using the rules in the MIC.

Better yet, just use your handy Use Magic Device skill to wear them anyway. The nails will hurt but it's worth it.

[KillianHawkeye]

Normally, it's 5500 gp. The guidelines of magic item creation suggest the +5 jump bonus is priced at 2500 and the +10 movement speed is 2000 gp (always on 1st level spell Longstrider with hours/level duration in an appropriate body slot.). The multiple abilities should x2 the higher cost part making it 7000. So using the item pricing guidelines is a bit off from the price in the DMG (as is typical, I know).

Nobody else has mentioned this, so I just wanted to let you know you have the formula for adding multiple powers to a magic item wrong. It's the cost of the most expensive ability plus 1.5x the cost of any cheaper power (Magic Item Compendium, pg. 232).

Using the correct formula with your examples actually does render the item's listed price of 5,500 gp.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Better yet, just use your handy Use Magic Device skill to wear them anyway. The nails will hurt but it's worth it.Or you could do the easy-slash-smart thing and use the rules for multiple magic item properties on a single slot in the MIC?

There's also the boots of skating, in the SRD.


Boots of Skating
These boots allow the wearer to slide along the ground at will as if using the skate power.

Faint psychoportation; ML 1st; Craft Universal Item, skate; Price 7,000 gp; Weight 1 lb.


Skate
Psychoportation
Level: Psion/wilder 1, psychic warrior 1
Display: Material and visual
Manifesting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal or touch; see text
Target: You or one willing creature or one unattended object (total weight up to 100 lb./level); see text
Duration: 1 min./level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Power Resistance: Yes (harmless, object)
Power Points: 1
You, another willing creature, or an unattended object can slide along solid ground as if on smooth ice. If you manifest skate on yourself or another creature, the subject of the power retains equilibrium by mental desire alone, allowing her to gracefully skate along the ground, turn, or stop suddenly as desired. The skater’s land speed increases by 15 feet. (This adjustment is treated as an enhancement bonus.) As with any effect that increases speed, this power affects the subject’s maximum jumping distance.

The subject can skate up or down any incline or decline she could normally walk upon without mishap, though skating up an incline reduces the subject’s speed to normal, while skating down a decline increases her speed by an additional 15 feet. (This adjustment is treated as a circumstance bonus.)

If you manifest skate on an object, treat the object as having only one-tenth of its normal weight for the purpose of dragging it along the ground.

[Quertus]

Nobody else has mentioned this, so I just wanted to let you know you have the formula for adding multiple powers to a magic item wrong. It's the cost of the most expensive ability plus 1.5x the cost of any cheaper power (Magic Item Compendium, pg. 232).

Using the correct formula with your examples actually does render the item's listed price of 5,500 gp.

So, by the books, it really should be 2k? Good to know.

[CharonsHelper]

So, by the books, it really should be 2k? Good to know.

Thought that does NOT mean that it should actually be a mere 2k. Those numbers are to ballpark - not as concrete formulas. It specifically says that it's for estimating.

After all, going by the table you could make a ring of constant true strike for less than 10k (I forget the exact number). Obviously no GM worth their salt should allow such a thing.

[ericgrau]

I have a player in the game I DM who's character wants boots of striding and springing, but without the springing part. In other words, +10 movement speed always on, but doesn't care about a bonus to jumping. I'm OK with that, but trying to figure out the pricing.

Normally, it's 5500 gp. The guidelines of magic item creation suggest the +5 jump bonus is priced at 2500 and the +10 movement speed is 2000 gp (always on 1st level spell Longstrider with hours/level duration in an appropriate body slot.). The multiple abilities should x2 the higher cost part making it 7000. So using the item pricing guidelines is a bit off from the price in the DMG (as is typical, I know).

I find 2000 to low for the speed bonus, and I probably wouldn't pay 2500 (definitely not 5000) for +5 to jump...

I'm thinking that the "Boots of Just Striding" should be about 4000 gp.

Three examples from the MiC:
* The Quickness property of armour adds +5 to speed for 5000 gp.
* The Crystal of Alacrity adds +5 bonus to land speed for 3500 gp.
* Then there is the panther mask, adds +5 bonus to land speed for 2700 gp.

There may be others, but I think these three justify my thoughts that 2000 gp is much too low.

What do you think? Is there an item I missed that is closer to what I'm looking for?

Thanks for your help.

Your player and everyone else who has ever looked at those boots. No one wants the jumping part. So I think simply taking off the jump to get 3,000 gp is too low. Yes I'd go with 4,000 gp and call it a day. In the end the primary deciding factor in the price of a magic item is how much a player is willing to pay for it and for it to still be a tough choice compared to other items. So 4,000 gp hits that mark.

Now if you were playing higher optimization then the player might not be interested in the boots at all and then you would lower the price of it and almost every core item. But since the player seems so interested in the boots I'm betting you aren't playing high optimization.

[Troacctid]

Thought that does NOT mean that it should actually be a mere 2k. Those numbers are to ballpark - not as concrete formulas. It specifically says that it's for estimating.

After all, going by the table you could make a ring of constant true strike for less than 10k (I forget the exact number). Obviously no GM worth their salt should allow such a thing.
I'd allow it. It seems balanced enough IMO.

[Kelb_Panthera]

The more I read this thread, the more I wonder; is 2k -really- that unacceptable? We're talking about a 10ft speed increase that won't stack with most other speed increases outside of -some- class features.

[ericgrau]

The more I read this thread, the more I wonder; is 2k -really- that unacceptable? We're talking about a 10ft speed increase that won't stack with most other speed increases outside of -some- class features.

For a low enough optimization game where players actually care about speed and are asking for it? Absolutely. Speed is hard to come by in those games. I don't think you can even exceed a permanent 10' in core. Only temporarily. For 2k most of my characters would have it by levels 5-6.

[Troacctid]

The more I read this thread, the more I wonder; is 2k -really- that unacceptable? We're talking about a 10ft speed increase that won't stack with most other speed increases outside of -some- class features.
Tooth of Savnok is basically that. 🤷

[CharonsHelper]

I'd allow it. It seems balanced enough IMO.

You'd allow a ring which constantly had True Strike turned on for around 10k? Lol.

[Crake]

You'd allow a ring which constantly had True Strike turned on for around 10k? Lol.

Except that's not how true strike works. It gets discharged on use, so it wouldn't be "constant", you'd have to keep reapplying it. If my players wanted to spend every second standard action re-applying true strike, and only getting it on the first attack in each full attack routine, then good on them, they basically have a wand of true strike in a wand chamber. I'd let them have that for 2k (1st level spell at CL 1, use activated at will), not a problem.

[sleepyphoenixx]

For a low enough optimization game where players actually care about speed and are asking for it? Absolutely. Speed is hard to come by in those games. I don't think you can even exceed a permanent 10' in core. Only temporarily. For 2k most of my characters would have it by levels 5-6.
Speed is no harder to come by in a low-op game than in a high-op one, all you have to do is open the books. +10ft also doesn't do much, especially if it's an enhancement bonus which stacks with nearly nothing.
If you want to blow 2k on +10ft move speed with characters who really don't need it that's your business, but it's still a pretty significant chunk of WBL at that level.
I'd probably buy something else with the vast majority of characters.

Or in other words 2k is fine. No need to overprice it.


Except that's not how true strike works. It gets discharged on use, so it wouldn't be "constant", you'd have to keep reapplying it. If my players wanted to spend every second standard action re-applying true strike, and only getting it on the first attack in each full attack routine, then good on them, they basically have a wand of true strike in a wand chamber. I'd let them have that for 2k (1st level spell at CL 1, use activated at will), not a problem.

What you're describing is command word activation.
Use-activated items don't take an action to activate, they function automatically when you use them. A sword that casts True Strike on hit would be use activated.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Here's a list of potential speed boosts for y'all, the best I've found for each bonus type (with stacking untyped types, of course). Didn't include any class-based ones, though barbarian and monk are obvious. And don't forget lots of ACFs.

Speed Boosts
20'/30' base
+50' + 5' Footsteps of the divine (Fharlanghn) / Complete Champion special holy symbol (any) [untyped]
+30' + 5' Worg Pelt / psionic open chakra / Complete Champion special holy symbol (base) [untyped]
+30' Epic Divine Vigor (base) [sacred]
+30' Horseshoes of speed (base) [enhancement]
+20' Rapid Swimming (swim only) [untyped]
+10' Astral vambraces (Celerity) (base) [untyped]
+10' Burst of the Cheetah (base, 1 min after regaining psionic focus) [untyped]
+10' Cavalryman's saddle (base) [untyped]
+10' Celerity domain (base) [untyped]
+10' Dark creature template (any) [untyped]
+10' Divine Vigor (base) [untyped]
+10' Fleet of Foot (PGtF) (base) [untyped]
+10' Freedom mantle [untyped]
+10' Improved Speed (any but flight) [untyped]
+10' Initiate of Fharlanghn [untyped]
+10' Quick trait (base) [untyped]
+10' Savage Mobility feat (any) [untyped]
+10' Shaundakul's boots (base) [untyped]
+10' Shadahkar's swift wind (base) [untyped]
+10' Skin of the Construct (Celerity) (base) [untyped]
+10' Speed of Thought (any) [untyped]
+10' Sprinter (3/day, 1 round per Con bonus) [untyped]
+10' Magebred Animal's Swift Breed (base) [untyped]
+5' Quickness armor (any) [untyped]
+5' Boots of hustling (any) [untyped]
×2 Rapid wrath weapon enhancement (any)
×2 Horned helm (A&EG) (base)
×3 Paragon creature's speed boost (any)

[Quertus]

Except that's not how true strike works. It gets discharged on use, so it wouldn't be "constant", you'd have to keep reapplying it. If my players wanted to spend every second standard action re-applying true strike, and only getting it on the first attack in each full attack routine, then good on them, they basically have a wand of true strike in a wand chamber. I'd let them have that for 2k (1st level spell at CL 1, use activated at will), not a problem.

There is, in point of fact, a bow which does almost exactly that, for almost exactly that price. 4k total, iirc, for a +1 bow which allows casters to cast True Strike at will as a standard action.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

There is, in point of fact, a bow which does almost exactly that, for almost exactly that price. 4k total, iirc, for a +1 bow which allows casters to cast True Strike at will as a standard action.That'd be great for a psion with synchronicity and the appropriate metapsionics.

[Crichton]

There is, in point of fact, a bow which does almost exactly that, for almost exactly that price. 4k total, iirc, for a +1 bow which allows casters to cast True Strike at will as a standard action.

You speak, of course, of the Bow of True Arrows, from Sword and Fist pg 76. 3.0 material, but your description is pretty exactly accurate. 4000gp. Spell trigger activation of True Strike (which means standard action activation, and the spell has to be on your spell list, unless you UMD it, right?), with unlimited charges, but the spell can only be applied to arrows from this bow, so you can't use it on other weapons. It's a +1 mighty composite longbow(+1 Strength bonus required), though, not a longbow with a +1 magical enhancement.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You speak, of course, of the Bow of True Arrows, from Sword and Fist pg 76. 3.0 material, but your description is pretty exactly accurate. 4000gp. Spell trigger activation of True Strike (which means standard action activation, and the spell has to be on your spell list, unless you UMD it, right?), with unlimited charges, but the spell can only be applied to arrows from this bow, so you can't use it on other weapons. It's a +1 mighty composite longbow(+1 Strength bonus required), though, not a longbow with a +1 magical enhancement.Convert spell-to-power erudite with true strike it is, then.

[PrismCat21]

Shaundakul's Boots (Magic of Faerun) are right there for 6300 gp giving a +10 untyped bonus to speed and other bonuses, so I don't think so.
Un-updated Setting specific 3.0 material. You can think what you want, my opinion is that Boots of Striding with other bonus types, or no type at all, should be relatively more expensive.
Are you suggesting that Shaundakul's Boots are priced correctly? Seems like a pretty bold assumption...


You're also assuming that Boots of Striding and Springing are priced correctly to begin with, which I think is a pretty bold assumption.

....say what? When did I suggest anything like that? I have given no opinion on that at all.
I suggest not making things up to try and discredit other people. Lying is bad. It never feels good to be lied to, or have lies told about you.

Common courtesy isn't so common anymore it seems.

[Troacctid]

What you're describing is command word activation.
Use-activated items don't take an action to activate, they function automatically when you use them. A sword that casts True Strike on hit would be use activated.
Any item that casts a spell on activation defaults to that spell's casting time as the action to activate it unless otherwise stated. A custom use-activated item of True Strike would therefore have a standard action activation, unless you used the quickened version of the spell, in which case it would be significantly more expensive!

I was referring to the continuous version, though, which I think is perfectly fine at the price the guideline suggests. Extending the spell's duration alleviates the action cost, which is fine, but most of my characters would probably spring for a smaller bonus that applies to more than one attack.


Un-updated Setting specific 3.0 material. You can think what you want, my opinion is that Boots of Striding with other bonus types, or no type at all, should be relatively more expensive.
Are you suggesting that Shaundakul's Boots are priced correctly? Seems like a pretty bold assumption...
Honestly, yeah, they probably are priced correctly. They're a 10th level item, which seems okay to me. And I'd say a significant portion of the value is in the Find the Path ability, not the speed boost. Other items in the same range include Ring of Anticipation, Horn of Goodness/Evil, Shirt of Wraith Stalking, Amulet of Emergency Healing, Metamagic Wandgrip, and Greater Crystal of Energy Assault. I think Shaundakul's Boots hold up well against them.


....say what? When did I suggest anything like that? I have given no opinion on that at all.
I suggest not making things up to try and discredit other people. Lying is bad. It never feels good to be lied to, or have lies told about you.

Common courtesy isn't so common anymore it seems.
???

[ericgrau]

Speed is no harder to come by in a low-op game than in a high-op one, all you have to do is open the books. +10ft also doesn't do much, especially if it's an enhancement bonus which stacks with nearly nothing.
It makes a huge difference in tactical combat, preventing many turns where you wouldn't be able to attack except with a range weapon. Or allowing you to position yourself better to protect others, especially with a reach weapon. Or letting the rogue set up his flanks or otherwise gets where he needs to be, especially if tumbling at half speed. Even casters and other ranged will use it to kite to a safe distance and still act. In other words it buys you actions, and actions are king in D&D.

If your DM positions you in a 40' room and doesn't start the fight until everyone enters the room like a video game then I suppose it's different. If you're level 13 and everyone has some form of haste it's also different, but 2k or even 4k makes it available at low level when it's much harder to get a permanent speed boost. I did a quick Google and it seems non-trivial: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?191026-3-5-Boosts-in-base-land-speed

[Deophaun]

If you're level 13 and everyone has some form of haste it's also different, but 2k or even 4k makes it available at low level when it's much harder to get a permanent speed boost. I did a quick Google and it seems non-trivial: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?191026-3-5-Boosts-in-base-land-speed
Longstrider and snowshoes come at level 1 and are hours/level. If you just want it for the speed and you have a druid or cleric in your party, that makes the boots overpriced versus a 1st level pearl of power.

A 10' enhancement bonus is trivial at low levels.

[sleepyphoenixx]

If you're level 13 and everyone has some form of haste it's also different, but 2k or even 4k makes it available at low level when it's much harder to get a permanent speed boost.
Aside from what Deophaun said i wonder what you define as low level? Because for me it's maybe up to level 5, at the highest.
6th level WBL is 13k gp. 2k is still a big chunk of that, and i certainly have a lot of better things to buy with those limited funds before a +10ft speed boost even enters consideration.

[Elkad]

I always want speed. Of course sometimes a fast mount is good enough.

The ability to control the battlefield through maneuver is just too useful.

If I'm melee DPS, I have to be able to get to the enemy. If I'm the squishy ranged DPS/support, I have to be able to stay away from the enemy. If I'm the healer (yuck) I have to be able to get to anyone in the party in a single move action.

Plus all kinds of edge cases. Why would I engage a troll (or any other pile of claws&fangs) in melee if I can just shoot it to death, even if I only do ¼ my normal damage? Arrows are FAR cheaper than CLW charges. If I'm 2x the speed of the troll, it can't even charge and get to me. Of course flying works on the troll, but not on a griffon. That is even more critical vs a creature with secondary effects like level drain or poison or Swallow Whole.

And when the DM get frustrated and and starts giving everything tactical teleportation, Anticipate Teleport becomes a requirement. (Never Greater though, 3 rounds is too long if you are using it defensively)

40' base, plus 5' per character level is a ballpark figure for merely adequate speed (switching to flight in the midlevels). I'll still want some swift/immediate movement options on top of that, like Dimension Hop, Belt of Battle, etc.
Sudden Leap is a favorite because it's benefiting from your existing speed boosts. 7th level Shadow Blink 50'? Or just make a Jump check at +50 or more from your existing speed boosts with a mere 1st level maneuver and the same swift action requirement for even more distance. Then carry a teleport item (anklet, tattoo, etc) for getting out of forcecages and grapples.

Yeah, I buy the boots. Even paying for the Jumping (which I might want if I have sudden leap), they are worth it.

[ericgrau]

Longstrider and snowshoes come at level 1 and are hours/level. If you just want it for the speed and you have a druid or cleric in your party, that makes the boots overpriced versus a 1st level pearl of power.

A 10' enhancement bonus is trivial at low levels.

Why does snowshoes do everything longstrider does and way more at the same spell level? Is that severe power creep or is the intent only for snow use? The sentence grammar is ambiguous.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Why does snowshoes do everything longstrider does and way more at the same spell level? Is that severe power creep or is the intent only for snow use? The sentence grammar is ambiguous.

Why does Flesh to Ice do everything Flesh to Stone does at a spell level lower?
Though it's probably more a matter of different authors not knowing all the material than intentional power creep.

[ericgrau]

If it works, isn't questioned for severe power creep and you have a druid, at 6th+ level the druid could blow all his 1st and 2nd level spells to 12 hour buff spam the party. Two 3,000 gp lesser rods of extend spell gets it up to 24 hours but only on 3 ppl. So you might need a 7th level druid or etc. In any other situation I'd still auto-buy the 2k boots. Or I might buy them anyway to save the druid a couple spell slots. Not at 5th level, but at 6th or 7th they become a pretty easy choice, close to automatic. Like I said at the start this is at weak optimization which is the only time the OP's player would even ask about the boots. I'm sure you could find 943 crazy tricks that are a better use of your gold. But core or similar power level options that aren't insta-banned NI/uncapped loops are a lot harder to come by.

[Deophaun]

If it works, isn't questioned for severe power creep and you have a druid, at 6th+ level the druid could blow all his 1st and 2nd level spells...
I don't understand. Why is he blowing all his 1st and 2nd level spells when the party is buying pearls of power in lieu of boots of striding and springing? And at sixth level, the ranger can now do it, too.

But core or similar power level options that aren't insta-banned NI/uncapped loops are a lot harder to come by.
Pearls of power are core. Druids and rangers are core. Longstrider is core.

[ericgrau]

I don't understand. Why is he blowing all his 1st and 2nd level spells when the party is buying pearls of power in lieu of boots of striding and springing? And at sixth level, the ranger can now do it, too.

Pearls of power are core. Druids and rangers are core. Longstrider is core.

4 pearls of power for 24 hours. Same price but at least it adds ranger as a practical source. But 1x works for a dungeon at least.

Longstrider is personal only. Not every party has a druid/ranger.

You could make an argument against nearly every core item, or heck 90% of non-core items, with some splatbook trick that does it twice as good (though snowshoes is only part way there). I don't take that as a base assumption, I take that as the exception that leads down a dark road. If the OP wants to play that way it's fine, but I don't see a reason to lead him down that path. Actually I think he should pick 2k-4k based on his specific situation. Maybe he's partway in between and should do 3k.

[Deophaun]

4 pearls of power for 24 hours. Same price. But 1x works for a dungeon at least.
That's the big thing. You only need one, maybe two. You don't need 4, because it's a very rare instance where you're not spending 8 hours resting.

Longstrider is personal only.
OK. I missed that.

Not every party has a druid.
Which brings us to the ranger and cleric with snowshoes (or any spontaneous caster via UMD and knowstones; knowstone+memento magica = 2500 gp). Yeah, not every party has a cleric, favored soul, ranger, druid, archivist, artificer, bard, sorcerer, beguiler, warmage, or dread necromancer, but we're now starting to talk about edge cases.

And "it's insta-banned" is BS. I've yet to be in a non-core-only game where the spell's been questioned.

[sleepyphoenixx]

I'm sure you could find 943 crazy tricks that are a better use of your gold. But core or similar power level options that aren't insta-banned NI/uncapped loops are a lot harder to come by.
With 13k gp at my disposal i'd probably start with a Vest/Cloak of Resistance +1 and a +2 item for my main stat.
Then comes a Handy Haversack, mwk weapon, a Healing Belt and some cheap essentials like a Scout's Headband, a Shadow Cloak, Third Eye:Clarity/Freedom, Chronocharms, Anklet of Translocation and so on.
I'd set aside 1k or so for some consumables like scrolls of Magic Weapon in case i run into something incorporeal, Trollbane, Silversheen etc.
You know, one-shot counters to things i really can't afford a permanent solution for yet.

That's hardly "insta-banned NI/uncapped loops". Just normal items - almost all of them from the MIC - that are more useful and more important than +10ft move speed.

And to come back to the point, that's at 2k for the boots. Which some people are saying is too cheap.
Sure, they have to cost something, but i don't think the bonus is really worth much more. Maybe 3k if you're feeling stingy, but that should really be the limit.

[Kelb_Panthera]

For a low enough optimization game where players actually care about speed and are asking for it? Absolutely. Speed is hard to come by in those games. I don't think you can even exceed a permanent 10' in core. Only temporarily. For 2k most of my characters would have it by levels 5-6.

How low a level of optimization are we talking if haste isn't being cast pretty regularly at level 5 and onward? It's a core spell that affects the whole party. I'd happily pitch 1k into the party pot to make sure the party wizard has plenty of castings for the day. Hell, I'd have to really think for a bit to decide between 2 pearls or the boots if I had to choose one or the other.

[Quertus]

With 13k gp at my disposal i'd probably start with a Vest/Cloak of Resistance +1 and a +2 item for my main stat.
Then comes a Handy Haversack, mwk weapon, a Healing Belt and some cheap essentials like a Scout's Headband, a Shadow Cloak, Third Eye:Clarity/Freedom, Chronocharms, Anklet of Translocation and so on.
I'd set aside 1k or so for some consumables like scrolls of Magic Weapon in case i run into something incorporeal, Trollbane, Silversheen etc.
You know, one-shot counters to things i really can't afford a permanent solution for yet.

That's hardly "insta-banned NI/uncapped loops". Just normal items - almost all of them from the MIC - that are more useful and more important than +10ft move speed.

And to come back to the point, that's at 2k for the boots. Which some people are saying is too cheap.
Sure, they have to cost something, but i don't think the bonus is really worth much more. Maybe 3k if you're feeling stingy, but that should really be the limit.

When I first played 3.0, I prioritized the Boots of Striding rather hard. Then I discovered just how rarely movement actually really matters - and that's as someone who will play characters who actually will run away! Heck, Quertus, my signature academia mage, for whom this account is named, has Run and Endurance to boot.

Currently, I prioritized getting a +1 weapon on the party's primary striker, preceded only by a few charges on Wands of Lesser Vigor, and possibly a war horse.

Speaking of which, a war horse is +10-20 movement, extra attacks, and a pile of extra HP to boot, all available at first level. That seems way more broken than Boots of Striding at 2k.


How low a level of optimization are we talking if haste isn't being cast pretty regularly at level 5 and onward? It's a core spell that affects the whole party. I'd happily pitch 1k into the party pot to make sure the party wizard has plenty of castings for the day. Hell, I'd have to really think for a bit to decide between 2 pearls or the boots if I had to choose one or the other.

At the level of My First Wizard? It's pretty common to never see Haste.