Circle of Spores will be going into Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica

[nickl_2000]

Per link from JC https://twitter.com/JeremyECrawford/status/1030143963024347137


Personally, ick.... I don't like it, but then I have never cared about MTG

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hey, sweet! The Circle of Spores is one of my favorite UAs-- it opens up a new conceptual space (non-Wildshape Druid gish) that was difficult to manage otherwise... although I bet you that Halo of Spores has been downgraded to a Bonus Action, making it somewhat less beefy.

[Vogie]

Hey, sweet! The Circle of Spores is one of my favorite UAs-- it opens up a new conceptual space (non-Wildshape Druid gish) that was difficult to manage otherwise... although I bet you that Halo of Spores has been downgraded to a Bonus Action, making it somewhat less beefy.

Seconded

My main issue is that poison is so resisted that it isn't that useful. I mean, a DM could easily allow a refluff into a Wildfire Druid, Blizzard Druid, Blight druid, et cetera with that subclass skeleton... but it would require that DM fiat.

I sometimes wish they'd put little refluff/retype suggestions like that in a box to the side so it doesn't sound as cray-cray.

[ad_hoc]

Seconded

My main issue is that poison is so resisted that it isn't that useful. I mean, a DM could easily allow a refluff into a Wildfire Druid, Blizzard Druid, Blight druid, et cetera with that subclass skeleton... but it would require that DM fiat.

I sometimes wish they'd put little refluff/retype suggestions like that in a box to the side so it doesn't sound as cray-cray.

Poison is one of the only interesting damage types as many creatures interact with it.

As long as the damage is higher than what is typical of the ability, then it is fine.

Or in other words, poison is a good damage type if it does more damage than similar costed options. It is interesting because the character will need to change tactics when fighting something immune to poison, but is stronger than average when not.

[Foxhound438]

I think the bonus action is probably right for halo of spores. Reacting to actual nothing is just so janky. I wouldn't be opposed to giving it extra attack at 6th, just to double down on this being the "gish druid".

speaking of that particular UA, I wouldn't be at all surprised if inventor wizard got a decent re-work and was in for the izzet.

[PeteNutButter]

Very cool. Love the idea of a druid that can make use of melee without wildshaping.

I wonder if we'll be lucky enough to see a subclass clearly associated with each of the 10 guilds...

{W}{U} Azorius Senate - Mystic Theurge?
{U}{B} House Dimir - feels like a great artificer, but probably something wizardy
{B}{R} Cult of Rakdos - Something warlocky
{R}{G} Gruul Clans - definitely a barbarian
{G}{W} Selesnya Conclave - A working beastmaster?
{W}{B} Orzhov Syndicate- maybe treachery paladin
{U}{R} Izzet League- School of invention reworked (as suggested above)
{B}{G} Golgari Swarm - Spores obviously
{R}{W} Boros Legion - Brute?
{G}{U} Simic Combine - I'm feeling a sorcerer for some reason

[Beechgnome]

Very cool. Love the idea of a druid that can make use of melee without wildshaping.

I wonder if we'll be lucky enough to see a subclass clearly associated with each of the 10 guilds...

{W}{U} Azorius Senate - Mystic Theurge?
{U}{B} House Dimir - feels like a great artificer, but probably something wizardy
{B}{R} Cult of Rakdos - Something warlocky
{R}{G} Gruul Clans - definitely a barbarian
{G}{W} Selesnya Conclave - A working beastmaster?
{W}{B} Orzhov Syndicate- maybe treachery paladin
{U}{R} Izzet League- School of invention reworked (as suggested above)
{B}{G} Golgari Swarm - Spores obviously
{R}{W} Boros Legion - Brute?
{G}{U} Simic Combine - I'm feeling a sorcerer for some reason

Not being a magic player my decision on whether to buy this book is likely to come down to how many of these player options we get. I'm hoping for a bit more choices than SCAG. I'm also hoping they expand on the 'how to run a city adventure' vibe they have suggested Dragon Heist will offer. That might be enough.

[the_brazenburn]

Very cool. Love the idea of a druid that can make use of melee without wildshaping.

I wonder if we'll be lucky enough to see a subclass clearly associated with each of the 10 guilds...

{W}{U} Azorius Senate - Mystic Theurge?
{U}{B} House Dimir - feels like a great artificer, but probably something wizardy
{B}{R} Cult of Rakdos - Something warlocky
{R}{G} Gruul Clans - definitely a barbarian
{G}{W} Selesnya Conclave - A working beastmaster?
{W}{B} Orzhov Syndicate- maybe treachery paladin
{U}{R} Izzet League- School of invention reworked (as suggested above)
{B}{G} Golgari Swarm - Spores obviously
{R}{W} Boros Legion - Brute?
{G}{U} Simic Combine - I'm feeling a sorcerer for some reason

Azorius is definitely Order Cleric. I think Brute was probably designed for Gruul (being the most barb-like fighter). It would be better to see a summoning-based ranger rather than a Beastmaster for Selesnya.


That's just my two cents there.

[Sception]

Treachery paladin isn't a great fit for Orzhov. The banking guild is extremely orderly and lawful, owing to the white mana half of its heritage, where the treachery paladin is extremely anti-lawful by nature. Frankly, I doubt we'll ever see the treachery paladin printed, owing to it's conceptual overlap with oathbreaker (even if the treachery paladin is a dramatically better mechanical manifestation of that concept), but if we did see it as part of ravnica, it would be a better fit for rakdos or even dimir.

If I were to associate any classes with orzhov, it would be death cleric, oathbreaker paladin (completely wrong fluff, but very much the right mechanics - again there is an unfortunate disconnect between the two), conquest paladin, necromancer wizard, diviner wizard, mastermind rogue, order cleric, undying warlock, long death monk, etc.

Most of those also work equally well with other guilds, as there is naturally a lot of thematic overlap between guilds that share a color.

[Exocist]

Very cool. Love the idea of a druid that can make use of melee without wildshaping.

I wonder if we'll be lucky enough to see a subclass clearly associated with each of the 10 guilds...

{W}{U} Azorius Senate - Mystic Theurge?
{U}{B} House Dimir - feels like a great artificer, but probably something wizardy
{B}{R} Cult of Rakdos - Something warlocky
{R}{G} Gruul Clans - definitely a barbarian
{G}{W} Selesnya Conclave - A working beastmaster?
{W}{B} Orzhov Syndicate- maybe treachery paladin
{U}{R} Izzet League- School of invention reworked (as suggested above)
{B}{G} Golgari Swarm - Spores obviously
{R}{W} Boros Legion - Brute?
{G}{U} Simic Combine - I'm feeling a sorcerer for some reason

I figure they wouldn't double-up on classes, but there's 12 base classes and only 10 guilds. Maybe need to add Gateless and Guildpact?

Azorius - Order Cleric for sure
Dimir - Rogue
Rakdos - Bard. Let's face it - we all want a Death Metal Bard.
Gruul - Brute Fighter sounds good, but it wasn't viewed upon very favourably (which is a shame, because it's actually a nice upgrade to the champion as the "simple" fighter). Therefore, I assume Barbarian (Path of Disaster?)
Selesnya - Ranger (better beastmaster probably) would fit well here.
Orzhov - I think Warlock would fit best here. They're all about selling your soul for money (sort of)
Izzet - I assume reflavoured invention wizard here
Golgari - Spores Druid
Boros - I'm thinking Paladin here. They seem all righteous.
Simic - Sorcerer seems like a good fit here, you could definitely flavour the magic to work with the biological enhancements. Maybe something like the Sea Sorcerer reflavoured to be ooze-y.
Gateless - Fighter seems like a good "Common Man" or "Hero of the People" class.
Guildpact - Leaves Monk here, which makes sense I guess.

[DragonBaneDM]

Very cool. Love the idea of a druid that can make use of melee without wildshaping.

I wonder if we'll be lucky enough to see a subclass clearly associated with each of the 10 guilds...

{W}{U} Azorius Senate - Mystic Theurge?
{U}{B} House Dimir - feels like a great artificer, but probably something wizardy
{B}{R} Cult of Rakdos - Something warlocky
{R}{G} Gruul Clans - definitely a barbarian
{G}{W} Selesnya Conclave - A working beastmaster?
{W}{B} Orzhov Syndicate- maybe treachery paladin
{U}{R} Izzet League- School of invention reworked (as suggested above)
{B}{G} Golgari Swarm - Spores obviously
{R}{W} Boros Legion - Brute?
{G}{U} Simic Combine - I'm feeling a sorcerer for some reason

I love speculation like this! A lot of the stuff you have feels on point.

I'd give my left hand for a Rakdos Bard.
I could see a new Rogue subtype for Dimir. Something akin to the Shadow Monk.
For Orzhov I could see a new Cleric domain, dealing with undeath and/or wealth.
I'll echo that Brute fits more with Gruul.
Maybe a Fighter subclass that is sort of a Divine version of the EK? Boros is tough, they're kind of straight up and down paladins.
Selesnya feels more Cleric/Paladin than Ranger for me, but I hope you're right!
Simic is so weird. So so so weird. I think you're right though. Warlock seems fitting too, but Sorcerer fits way better. Maybe Wizard school.

[PeteNutButter]

I figure they wouldn't double-up on classes, but there's 12 base classes and only 10 guilds. Maybe need to add Gateless and Guildpact?

Azorius - Order Cleric for sure
Dimir - Rogue
Rakdos - Bard. Let's face it - we all want a Death Metal Bard.
Gruul - Brute Fighter sounds good, but it wasn't viewed upon very favourably (which is a shame, because it's actually a nice upgrade to the champion as the "simple" fighter). Therefore, I assume Barbarian (Path of Disaster?)
Selesnya - Ranger (better beastmaster probably) would fit well here.
Orzhov - I think Warlock would fit best here. They're all about selling your soul for money (sort of)
Izzet - I assume reflavoured invention wizard here
Golgari - Spores Druid
Boros - I'm thinking Paladin here. They seem all righteous.
Simic - Sorcerer seems like a good fit here, you could definitely flavour the magic to work with the biological enhancements. Maybe something like the Sea Sorcerer reflavoured to be ooze-y.
Gateless - Fighter seems like a good "Common Man" or "Hero of the People" class.
Guildpact - Leaves Monk here, which makes sense I guess.

You're spot on about the rogue. I wonder what it would be like though? We already have assassin and arcane trickster. What other design space is there?

[the_brazenburn]

You're spot on about the rogue. I wonder what it would be like though? We already have assassin and arcane trickster. What other design space is there?

Something along the lines of Shadow Monk? A rogue that can teleport via shadows or hurl blades of darkness would be fantastic (Shadow Slice and Way of the Thief, for you Return to Ravnica players).

[Vogie]

Very cool. Love the idea of a druid that can make use of melee without wildshaping.

I wonder if we'll be lucky enough to see a subclass clearly associated with each of the 10 guilds...

WU Azorius Senate - Order/Light/Knowledge/City Cleric, Cavalier Fighter, Crown Paladin, Abjuration/Divination Wizard, Stone Sorcerer
UB House Dimir - Treachery Paladin, Assassin/Mastermind/AT Rogue, Trickery Cleric, Shadow Monk/Sorcerer
BR Cult of Rakdos - Fiend Warlock, Pyromancer Sorcerer, Swashbuckler Rogue, Death Cleric, Conquest Paladin
RG Gruul Clans - Berzerker/Ancient Guardians Barbarian, Brute Fighter, Scout Rogue, Ancients Paladin, Tranquility/4E Monk
GW Selesnya Conclave - Beastmaster/Primeval Guardian Ranger, Valor Bard, Shepherd Druid, Nature/Life Cleric, Redemption/Ancients Paladin
WB Orzhov Syndicate- Necromancer Wizard, Hexblade Warlock, Grave Cleric, Divine Soul Sorcerer, Long Death Monk
UR Izzet League- Artificer, Invention/Evocation/Technomancy Wizard, Draconic/Storm Sorcerer, Ghost of the Machine Warlock
BG Golgari Swarm - Spores Druid, Oathbreaker Paladin, Tempest Cleric, Undying Warlock
RW Boros Legion - Battlemaster Fighter, Celestial Warlock, War Wizard/Cleric, Sun Soul Monk, Forge/Light Cleric, Vengeance Paladin
GU Simic Combine - Wild Magic Sorcerer, Spores Druid, Transmutation Wizard

The Simic's playstyle - hybridizations of animals, evolution, and magically grafting abilities to self and others - is sadly not yet a thing we can do in 5e yet

[Sception]

As a counter proposal to Rogue for Dimir, what about psion? Their boss was a psychic vampire at one point, they steal thoughts and secrets more than gold & treasure, and a shadow-themed psion subclass/discipline would have a lot less overlap with the shadow monk and arcane trickster.

[Sception]

On the subject of psions, the current mystic's wu jen build focusing on the mastery of light and darkness discipline would be a great fit for orzhov. I hope some of that design will make it into the next playtest version of the psion.

[the_brazenburn]

BG Golgari Swarm - Spores Druid, Oathbreaker Paladin, Tempest Death Cleric, Undying Warlock

Not sure that tempest really fits Golgari that well. I could maybe see it in Gruul...

[Rebonack]

Glad to see the Circle of Spores getting a second pass.

Though it still feels like a huge missed opportunity to make Spore Druids the 'I'm okay with undead' subclass rather than the 'undead have violated the cycle of decay and regrowth and must be mulched' subclass. Giving them Extra Attack at level 6 instead of fungal zombies along with an exception that their spores deal radiant damage to undead rather than poison would have made for a massively thematic druid gish.

The fungal zombies are cool and all, but I don't feel like the ability is great for PCs. It's amazing for a villain going around zombifying whole villages, though.

[Millstone85]

Hopefully, GGtR will have other great player options.

[Beechgnome]

They don't source it but this link says Order Domain is also confirmed. Which makes sense.

http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2018/08/dd-breaking-theres-mushroom-for-new-subclasses-in-ravnica.html

I also expect centaurs and minotaurs to pop up too, but others who know MtG would have a better idea how they might fit.

Any notion of what monsters we might expect in this world?

[Vogie]

Not sure that tempest really fits Golgari that well. I could maybe see it in Gruul...

Yeah, I knew they had an Insect Plague ability, and thought there was more in there... but now that I'm looking it up, there really isn't.

Death cleric also doesn't fit them (which is why I put it in Rakdos). There really isn't a good cleric class that works with the Golgari.

Maybe that Destruction domain MM posted a while ago?

[Mikaleus]

The ravnica setting / cards were my favourite.

I’m really looking forward to content in the book.

The Simic hybrid was an absolute surprise and exciting - my fav guild.

Looking at past UAs has got me thinking whether we will get a subclass per guild.

And especially excited for the Simic combine - will we get a supersolider class for the mutant? Or will I get to play a biomancer wizard who has a Krasis I can evolve as I level up?


Looks at krasis

Eh needs more toad

[Snowbluff]

Very cool. Love the idea of a druid that can make use of melee without wildshaping.

I wonder if we'll be lucky enough to see a subclass clearly associated with each of the 10 guilds...

{W}{U} Azorius Senate - Mystic Theurge?
{U}{B} House Dimir - feels like a great artificer, but probably something wizardy
{B}{R} Cult of Rakdos - Something warlocky
{R}{G} Gruul Clans - definitely a barbarian
{G}{W} Selesnya Conclave - A working beastmaster?
{W}{B} Orzhov Syndicate- maybe treachery paladin
{U}{R} Izzet League- School of invention reworked (as suggested above)
{B}{G} Golgari Swarm - Spores obviously
{R}{W} Boros Legion - Brute?
{G}{U} Simic Combine - I'm feeling a sorcerer for some reason
I dunno, I get Arcane+Divine from Orhoz. Treachery could work, I guess.
Dimir is hardcore Rogue+Wizard, though.

[Finback]

{W}{B} Orzhov Syndicate- maybe treachery paladin

Nah, domain of $$$.

[Sception]

Again, the banking guild is super lawful, and treachery paladins are literally the opposite of that. Almost anything would be a better fit.

[Speely]

Feels a lil weird for a giant city setting, but I guess it kinda makes sense when you consider you still want druids to be relevant in said setting, and the Circle of Spores makes more sense than, say, a Land Druid in that case.

Hell, I could see it working really well.

Edit: could Barbarians basically be gang members or something? I am largely unfamiliar with Ravnica as a setting, but I do get that it's basically a megalopolis with powerful guilds. Seems a bit incongruous with some classes/subclasses.

Are they gonna do some flavor fudging?

[Sception]

It is a giant, planet-wide city, but some huge regions of it are basically crumbled, semi abandoned wilderness overrun by beasts grown monstrous on the multifaceted magic that permeates the plane, or controlled by mercenary barbarian tribes associated with either the Gruul (life and destruction) or Rakdos (death and destruction) guilds.

It's also highly vertical, with looming towers built over surface streets built over undercity built over sewers built over crypts built over god knows what. And it's huge, again, planet wide. Some great arching halls or massive subterrainean tunnels are large enough to have their own weather patterns, while some city parks are large and wild enough to get lost in and never find your way out.

Druids of Selesnya (life and order) tend to such parks and gardens. In terms of the spores druids in particular, the Golgari (death and life) are in charge of garbage collection, sewage processing, the handling of physical remains of dead civilians (spiritual remains are handled by the banking guild Orzhov, death and order, which also serves as basically the official state religion of Ravnica).

The golgari also provide the majority of food for the vast majority of the planet city's population, using necromantic magic and gigantic fungal blooms to break down waste into compost from which the city's food is grown, with undead providing much of the physical labor of farming, since the work is backbreaking, tedius, and endless, not to mention exceptionally smelly.

[Finback]

Edit: could Barbarians basically be gang members or something? I am largely unfamiliar with Ravnica as a setting, but I do get that it's basically a megalopolis with powerful guilds. Seems a bit incongruous with some classes/subclasses.



That'd be the Gruul. They're effectively anarchists who want to smash civilisation, live in the ruined parts of town, and tend to hold political debates with their fists. And in terms of "wait, how does a group of anarchists hold a guild together", it's because they often get hired to, yeah, smash stuff up. Orzhov needs some people to move out of their building, so they can invest and redevelop? Boy, it would sure be a shame if the Gruul were to go on a rampage there, with their ragebeasts and anger-wurms, right?

[Sception]

While the city is planet-wide, civilization isnt. Vast stretches of land are wildernesses of after-the-fall style crumbled city-structures, layers of abandoned city half a mile tall collapsing into each other forming cliffs, ravines, massive cave networks, while on the surface you have crumbling streets and overgrown towers, and yeah, there's plenty of room for wilderness adventures and barbarian tribes in all that.