Human varient vs demihuman

[Whit]

Anyone have info on this
1. Human varient with feat
2. Demihuman
From lvl 1-3 I believe human varient is stronger with feat.
Lvl 4(6) fighter human edges out as well
Lvl 8 it begins to equal out
And above I think some demihuman edge out by 1 point or equal out

Anyone know this is for stats feats. Not adding racial extras

[Unoriginal]

What are you talking about? Sorry, I can't understand what you mean.

[Whit]

Sorry for that. If you take human varient ability modifier vs Demi humans ability modifier
And had each class raise to lvl 16 or 20
Would human varient be better in abilities and feats if you tried to mirror image each other.
Using the AL 15,14,13,12,10,8 stats.
Example dwarf fighter 17/16 stat human varient 16/15 stat but gets feat.
At lvl 4 dwarf gets same feat. And human increases stats to 18/15.
At 8 dwarf gets 19/16. Human gets 20/15
At 12 dwarf gets 20/16/14 human gets 20/16/14
At 16 they both get feat
At 20 they both get 20/18/14

Following this method does a demihuman get less than varient human during progression or does human just get lvl 1-3 advantage.

[Unoriginal]

Dwarves aren't demihumans, though.

[Whit]

Well maybe tats old school. The races in phb

[Occasional Sage]

For the majority(?) of readers: "demihuman" is the old-school term for nonhuman races, particularly PC races. It is not exclusive to actual human hybrid races like half-elves.

[JDanton]

Demihuman is derogatory to us high elves, we are far more refined and cultured than those petty humans. But in all seriousness no, variant humans aren't more powerful than the other races at higher levels, while at low levels having a feat can be incredibly powerful, definitely putting varient humans above the other races, at higher levels feats tend to become more of a novelty, they're still useful but are more of an afterthought by that point and typically having higher stats becomes more relevant. So it all evens out in the end.

[Exocist]

Generally demihuman races become better around level 12ish. This is because Fighters and Rogues generally want to have 2 feats to make their builds the best, so the progression looks like this


1. Demihuman starts with 2 16s, Vuman is 16+14 and Feat
4. Demihuman buys feat, Vuman is 18+14
(6.) Demihuman buys second feat (Fighter), Vuman would have bought second feat at 4th and levelled primary here
8. Demihuman is 18+16, Vuman is 20+14
(10.) Demihuman would have bought 2nd feat at 8, Vuman would have bought 2nd feat at 4. No change from 8 here.
12. Demihuman becomes 20+16, Vuman now must take another feat (Alert, Lucky, Resilient, whatever) or become a 20+16 (at which point they would be inferior to demihuman due to worse racials)


However, considering most games only go for the 4-12 range, this generally means that Vuman is much better than Demihumans outside of specific races (Yuan-Ti, WGtE, Goblins & Kobolds in the campaigns/with right DMs) or niche circumstances (Darkvision).


Demihuman is derogatory to us high elves, we are far more refined and cultured than those petty humans. But in all seriousness no, variant humans aren't more powerful than the other races at higher levels, while at low levels having a feat can be incredibly powerful, definitely putting varient humans above the other races, at higher levels feats tend to become more of a novelty, they're still useful but are more of an afterthought by that point and typically having higher stats becomes more relevant. So it all evens out in the end.

OP is a human supremacist

[Rebonack]

Generally demihuman races become better around level 12ish. This is because Fighters and Rogues generally want to have 2 feats to make their builds the best, so the progression looks like this


1. Demihuman starts with 2 16s, Vuman is 16+14 and Feat
4. Demihuman buys feat, Vuman is 18+14
(6.) Demihuman buys second feat (Fighter), Vuman would have bought second feat at 4th and levelled primary here
8. Demihuman is 18+16, Vuman is 20+14
(10.) Demihuman would have bought 2nd feat at 8, Vuman would have bought 2nd feat at 4. No change from 8 here.
12. Demihuman becomes 20+16, Vuman now must take another feat (Alert, Lucky, Resilient, whatever) or become a 20+16 (at which point they would be inferior to demihuman due to worse racials)


However, considering most games only go for the 4-12 range, this generally means that Vuman is much better than Demihumans outside of specific races (Yuan-Ti, WGtE, Goblins & Kobolds in the campaigns/with right DMs) or niche circumstances (Darkvision).



OP is a human supremacist

I've seen more or less the opposite take place in my experience.

Most players start by maxing out a primary stat and then snag their first feat at level 12 (or take a half feat at level 4) assuming the game gets that high.

[Exocist]

I've seen more or less the opposite take place in my experience.

Most players start by maxing out a primary stat and then snag their first feat at level 12 (or take a half feat at level 4) assuming the game gets that high.

Yeah, a lot of people do that. It's not really the optimal progression, but it isn't really that much worse than taking the feat and damn does it feel good to max out your stat.

In that case, we end up with a progression like this

Fighter

1. Vuman takes feat
4. Both have 18 primary
6. Both have 20 primary
8. Vuman takes 2nd feat, Demihuman takes 1st feat
12. Demihuman takes 2nd feat, Vuman takes 3rd feat or pumps secondary

End result: They're still only evening out at level 12 because of the power boost the second part of the 2-part feat combos gives. In this case, it would have actually been better for the demihuman to rush his double feats as the -1 penalty doesn't impact his gameplan as much as not having the second part of his feat combo (CE/SS, PAM/GWM, PAM/Sentinel, etc.)

Rogue

Kind of a unique case - there aren't many great feats for rogues, and elves are required for Elven Accuracy (Which is a half-feat anyway).

1. Vuman takes feat (Likely Sentinel, which is amazing on a rogue)
4. Both have 18 primary (This includes the elf, who uses Elven Accuracy to turn his 17 DEX into an 18 DEX)
8. Both have 20 primary
10. Vuman takes secondary feat, other race takes first feat (secondary feat if Elf, which would be Sentinel).


Seems a bit more even, given that Sentinel isn't really great to be having at 1st level on a Rogue - you really want another party member to have a feature that dissuades attacking you (such Unwavering Mark or Ancestral Barbarian), which come online at 3rd level or you want Uncanny Dodge (which comes online at 5th level). Otherwise the monsters are going to be targetting your squishy self. In this case, Elf is probably better than Vuman.

Anyone else

1. Vuman takes feat (Without knowing specific class, this is hard to tell, but all the Full-Spellcasting classes can use War Caster and/or Res Con)
4. Both have 18 Primary
8. Both have 20 Primary
12. Vuman takes second feat, other race takes 1st feat. Again, without knowing what your class is, it's hard to know exactly what the merit of the second feat will be.


This... doesn't seem that even actually. There's plenty of feats that are good for the other 10 classes to have at 1st level (GWM or PAM for Barbs/Paladins, Mobile for Monks, Don't really know for rangers, War Caster or Res Con for all the fullcasters). There's also plenty of good feats for them to have at 12th (Other part of PAM/GWM for Barb/Paladin, Monk doesn't need the Feat, still don't know with ranger, the other of Res Con or War Caster for non-sorcerers). In this case, the other race does "catch up" to Vuman at 12th, but it's questionable if their +2 stat points in a secondary stat is really worth Vuman's secondary feat.