Thought experiment: All Feats for everyone!

[Schopy]

Hi!

Using feats is optional, so some tables don't use them. How about the other extreme?

What would a game be like if every character in it had all feats (maybe limit it to the PHB ones and ignore the attribute increase of half feats)? What kind of character would you play in such a scenario? Further feats from other sources would not be used in that case.

Thanks for your input!

[CTurbo]

PAM + Sentinel + Warcaster + Magic Initiate + Spell Sniper + Mobile + Res(Wis) Fighter

[Beelzebubba]

Good luck building a challenging encounter

[Exocist]

Hi!

Using feats is optional, so some tables don't use them. How about the other extreme?

What would a game be like if every character in it had all feats (maybe limit it to the PHB ones and ignore the attribute increase of half feats)? What kind of character would you play in such a scenario? Further feats from other sources would not be used in that case.

Thanks for your input!

Hexblade Probably

Lets see what bonuses we get mechanically

PAM + War Caster (Repelling Blast)
PAM + Sentinel before that
Shield Master for those pesky DEX saves (We will probably use Quarterstaff + Shield over Glaive or Halberd).
Resilient (Constitution) - Maintain concentration, also CON saves are common and disable semi-frequently.
Alert and Lucky - Go first, reroll anything super bad.
Advantage on a bunch of things we don't really care about
+2 HP/Level from Tough
Inspiring Leader - Bit more durability for the party throughout the day.
Mage Slayer - Melee threat to casters.
Magic Initiate (not great)
Mobile (Makes your PAM + War Caster combo even more broken. Just attack and back away without fear of reprisal, then repelling blast if they try to engage)
Ritual Caster for out of combat
Spell Sniper for long range - I think this + Eldritch Spear lets you outrange pretty much any caster option to deal with you. Sharpshooter longbow users are the only things that can hit you reliably at this range.
Proficiency in 3 more skills (Skilled), all armors and you get both "Armor Master" feats. You can't really use heavy though.


So lets see, this character really can't be engaged in melee at all due to PAM + Sentinel + War Caster basically forcing out any melee opponents. Has proficiency in the 2 best saving throws (CON and WIS), is decent against DEX saves (Shield Master) and has backup (Lucky) in case he fails anything badly. He has good initiative (Alert) and can support the party (Inspiring Leader + Ritual Caster). He can also take on spellcasters at short (Mage Slayer) and long (Spell Sniper) range. Also, he is a bit more durable from tough.

Seems like it would be really difficult to ever scratch a character like this, let alone take them down. His INT and STR saves will probably be a bit weak - maybe can take 6 levels of Paladin to shore that up - you really don't need 20 Warlock levels.

[MeimuHakurei]

Here's the amount of bonus stats you get from getting all non-UA, non-racial feats:

+2 Str
+1 Con
+2 Int
+1 Cha

Plus a number of feats where you can choose the stat gained:

+4 Str/Dex
+1 Str/Con
+1 Int/Wis
+1 any (Resilient)

So before point-buy, you're already starting with:

10-16 Str
8-13 Dex
9-11 Con
10-12 Int
8-10 Wis
9-10 Cha

[ImproperJustice]

Well the only logical choice in this situation is to be “Abserd”!

Check the Puffin Forest Youtube Vid for a guy that made a level 14 character with all the classes.

[JackPhoenix]

PAM bonus attack needs to be done with the polearm in question. Combining it with Warcaster only works with BB/GFB, not Eldritch Blast. "Luckily", thanks to Spell Sniper, it works with reach weapons too.

[Exocist]

PAM bonus attack needs to be done with the polearm in question. Combining it with Warcaster only works with BB/GFB, not Eldritch Blast. "Luckily", thanks to Spell Sniper, it works with reach weapons too.

Ah yeah forgot that got Sage Advice'd.

Still can BB + Sentinel with Spell Sniper though

[Schopy]

Here's the amount of bonus stats you get from getting all non-UA, non-racial feats: <snip>



... and ignore the attribute increase of half feats...

Yes, getting the attribute increases too would be even more absurd. :-)

[Derpaligtr]

Good luck building a challenging encounter

They say that about Superman but it can be done.

Just don't make the goal = kill the sack of HP. Set it up where the goal ia to protect a target or item. Fighter can't do squat to protect an NPC from an arrow unless they took the protection fighting style (no one seems to like taking it).

[Ganymede]

What would a game be like if every character in it had all feats (maybe limit it to the PHB ones and ignore the attribute increase of half feats)?

I can imagine the PCs would each have either really weird backstories in order to account for it, or no backstories and the game is just a silly one-shot.

It sounds like the kind of game where someone is going to try to hug the final boss.

[Derpaligtr]

I can imagine the PCs would each have either really weird backstories in order to account for it, or no backstories and the game is just a silly one-shot.

It sounds like the kind of game where someone is going to try to hug the final boss.

Really qeird backstories work just as well in one shots XD.

Also, you should meet the totemist from 3e, they ~~grapple~~ hug the final boss all the time ;)

[LudicSavant]

Following the assumptions of "PHB-only" and "ignore attribute gains," a player with all feats would have...

1) Generally reduced penalties from many effects. These include:
- Cannot be surprised.
- Enemies don't gain Advantage from being hidden from you.
- Getting up from Prone takes only 5 feet of movement.
- Climbing doesn't halve your speed (essentially, you now have a Climb speed equal to your Move speed).
- You can make a running long jump or a running high jump after moving only 5 feet on foot, rather than 10 feet.
- Elemental resistances no longer matter to you.
- Can perform somatic components even with a shield or weapons in both hands.
- Your ranged spells and weapon attacks ignore cover.
- Ignore difficult terrain when Dashing.
- Missing a ranged attack while hidden doesn't reveal your position.
- Dim light doesn't impose disadvantage on your Wisdom (Perception) checks.
- Being within 5 feet of an enemy doesn't impose disadvantage on your ranged attacks.

2) New proficiencies:
- All armor and shields
- Unarmed strikes and improvised weapons
- Four weapons of your choice
- Three skills or tools of your choice
- A saving throw of your choice
- Three languages of your choice

3) Several straight numbers boosts beyond that. These include:
- +5 Initiative
- +10 movement speed
- +(Level*2) hit points.
- +5 to passive Perception and passive Investigation.
- The range of your spells that require attack rolls are doubled.
- Advantage on attack rolls against a creature you are grappling.
- Advantage on saving throws against traps.
- Advantage on saving throws against spells cast by creatures within 5 feet of you.
- Advantage on Constitution saves to maintain Concentration.
- Resistance to damage against traps.
- Advantage on Charisma (Deception) and Charisma (Performance) checks to pass oneself off as a different person.
- Advantage on Intelligence (Investigation) and Wisdom (Perception) checks to notice secret doors.
- All 1s on spell damage rolls become 2s.
- Your minimum hit die recovery roll equals twice your Constitution modifier.
- You get 3 "luck points" per long rest that let you roll an additional d20 and pick the best of the set when making an ability check, saving throw, or attack roll.
- Unarmed strikes do 1d4 points of damage.

4) Numerous new non-combat abilities:
- You can mimic the speech and sounds made by other creatures that you have heard for at least 1 minute, if you make a successful Charisma (Deception) check.
- You can ably create written ciphers, which take an Intelligence check against your Intelligence+Proficiency to read (or use magic to decipher).
- If you can see a creature's mouth while it is speaking a language you understand, you can read its lips.
- You can search for traps while moving at a normal pace.
- You always know which way is north, the number of hours left before the next sunrise or sunset, and can accurateely recall anything you have seen or heard within the past month.
- You can take ten minutes to give an inspiring speech which gives up to 6 creatures temporary hp equal to (level+Cha). A creature that benefits from this can't benefit again until they take a short rest.
- Various selectable magical abilities (see 7).

5) New combat maneuvers:
- You can try to hide when only lightly obscured from the creature from which you are hiding (questionable usefulness given the errata).
- The ability to Charge, which lets you take the Dash action then use a bonus action to attack with a +5 bonus damage or shove for a 10 foot knockback. Many still wonder why this is a feat instead of a capability for all martial characters.
- You can use your action to try to pin a creature grappled by you (restraining both you and the creature). Not a notable improvement over just shoving them prone, in many cases.
- Creatures that are one size larger than you don't automatically succeed on checks to escape your grapple. Psych! This actually does nothing, since larger creatures don't automatically break your grapple without the feat! Dammit WotC.
- When you use a healer's kit to stabilize a dying creature, that creature also regains 1 hit point.
- As an action. you can spend one use of a healer's kit to tend to a creature and restore 1d6 + 4 hit points to it, plus additional hit points equal to the creature's maximum number of Hit Dice. The creature can't regain hit points from this feat again until it finishes a short or long rest.
- When you hit a creature with an opportunity attack, the creature's speed becomes 0 for the rest of the turn.
- When a creature within 5 feet of you makes an attack against a target other than you (and that target doesn't have this feat), you can use your reaction to make a melee weapon attack against the attacking creature. Oddly the weird "and that target doesn't have this feat" line might suddenly be a lot more relevant.
- Creatures provoke OAs from you even if they use Disengage before leaving your reach.
- You can use single target spells for opportunity attacks.
- If you make a melee attack against an enemy, you don't provoke OAs for that turn, whether you hit or not.
- You may use your reaction to make a melee attack against a creature who casts a spell within 5 feet of you. Notably this isn't an OA, so it doesn't synergize with a lot of your other feats.
- When mounted, you have Advantage on melee attack rolls against any unmounted creature that is smaller than your mount.
- When mounted, you can force an attack against your mount to target you instead.
- When mounted, if your mount is subjected to an effect that allows it to make a Dexterity saving throw to take only half damage, it instead takes no damage if it succeeds on the saving throw, and only half damage if it fails.
- When you damage a creature that is Concentrating on a spell, that creature has disadvantage on the Concentration save.
- You learn two maneuvers from the Battle Master archetype and gain an extra superiority die (which is a d6 if you didn't have any before).
- When you hit with an unarmed strike or improvised weapon, you can attempt to grapple as a bonus action.
- Various selectable magical abilities (see 7).

6) Every "weapon style" feat, which essentially creates the following weapon styles you can switch between at will (in addition to all the general combat benefits listed above):

Shield and Rapier:
- You can use your reaction when an opponent would hit you to add your proficiency bonus to AC for an attack.
- On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action. That's right, you get this from GWM but you don't actually need a heavy weapon to have the benefit.
- Bonus action shove following your Attack action.
- Add shield's AC to any Dex save against effects that target only you.
- Use reaction to take no damage instead of half damage when succeeding on Dex saves for half damage.

Dual Wielding Rapiers:
- You gain a +1 to AC
- You can dual-wield two non-light weapons (which is why you have two rapiers).
- You can draw or stow both weapons when you would normally be able to draw or stow only one.
- You can use your reaction when an opponent would hit you to add your proficiency bonus to AC for an attack.
- On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.

Crossbow:
- Ignore Loading quality.
- Ignore cover.
- Ignore long range penalty.
- You can take -5 to hit to get +10 to damage (which, incidentally, combos nicely with not being revealed when missing a ranged attack).

Hand Crossbow:
- As Crossbow, but can use a bonus action to attack after using the Attack action with a one-handed weapon.

Heavy Weapon:
- On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
- Before you make a melee attack with a heavy weapon that you are proficient with, you can choose to take a -5 penalty to the attack roll. If the attack hits, you add +10 to the attack's damage.

Polearm:
- On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
- Bonus action 1d4+str attack.
- You can take -5 to hit to get +10 to damage.
- You get an OA against anything that enters your reach (and OAs are a lot better in general, because of reasons stated in 5)

5e Spiked Cha--I mean, Quarterstaff and Shield:
- On your turn, when you score a critical hit with a melee weapon or reduce a creature to 0 hit points with one, you can make one melee weapon attack as a bonus action.
- Bonus action shove following your Attack action.
- Bonus action 1d4+str attack.
- Add shield's AC to any Dex save against effects that target only you.
- Use reaction to take no damage instead of half damage when succeeding on Dex saves for half damage.
- You get an OA against anything that enters your reach (and OAs are a lot better in general, because of reasons stated in 5)

Throwing:
- Nope, you still suck at throwing.

7) Magical abilities!
- 2 cantrips and a first level spell (usable 1/long rest) all from the same spellcasting class of your choice.
- Ritual Casting from a spellcasting class of your choice (but at half level). This gives you a spellbook that can be expanded by pumping gold into it.
- You learn one cantrip that requires an attack roll (from Spell Sniper).

8) The benefits of various kinds of armor are increased.
- In Heavy Armor, you take 3 less damage from bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing.
- In Medium armor, you don't get disadvantage on stealth checks and your max AC bonus from Dexterity becomes 3.

[JakOfAllTirades]

Excellent list.

Under Crossbow, the benefit of attacking within 5 feet without disadvantage should apply to all ranged attacks. This falls under the general list of ignored penalties.

[LudicSavant]

Excellent list.

Under Crossbow, the benefit of attacking within 5 feet without disadvantage should apply to all ranged attacks. This falls under the general list of ignored penalties.

Thanks, moved it to the general list of ignored penalties.

[furby076]

maybe restrict this to the 3.x feats? Ever 4 character levels you get a feat (irrespective of asi). So at 20th you have 5 feats. At 20th level, 5 feats aint ground breaking

[Grod_The_Giant]

I think the main result would be ability overload-- you'd have so many different things you could do, in so many different situations, that you'd get overwhelmed and either forget stuff or slow everything to a crawl pouring through your list of abilities.

[CTurbo]

I think the main result would be ability overload-- you'd have so many different things you could do, in so many different situations, that you'd get overwhelmed and either forget stuff or slow everything to a crawl pouring through your list of abilities.

This could potentially be true, but not necessarily.

The aforementioned combo of PAM, Sentinel, Spell Sniper, and Warcaster synergize very well together with Booming Blade.

You could take a bunch of generalized feats that make every character better like Alert, Mobile, Lucky, Ritual Caster, Tough, and Observant. I'd love for any of my characters to have all of those at once.

[strangebloke]

The feats will compose a larger portion of your characters power than your class features do until you get to high levels.

In other words, every character built this way would be not very distinguishable.

I mean, the paladin wears plate mail and wields a polearm, but so does the wizard.

[Sariel Vailo]

Swords bard drow
With
Elven accuracy
Defensive duelist
Magic intiate get them tasty scagtrips
Maybe inspiring leader
And for funsies grab the cooking
And medical feats .

[Talionis]

I think the main result would be ability overload-- you'd have so many different things you could do, in so many different situations, that you'd get overwhelmed and either forget stuff or slow everything to a crawl pouring through your list of abilities.

I think this... Plus, with every character having every feat, no character feels special. It promotes everyone to a Jack of All Trades.

I am not the biggest fan of ASI including your attribute increases or a feat, I feel like if that is the case characters probably should get more, especially the martial characters that want multiple attributes very high... Barbarian and Monk especially seem like they could use built in attribute bonuses or extra ASI's like Rogue and Fighter get...

But I don't think the answer is everyone gets everything... D&D is about making choices, having opportunity costs, and allowing different characters to shine in different situations.

Generally 5E is pretty darn good at getting balance improved.

[Derpaligtr]

I think this... Plus, with every character having every feat, no character feels special. It promotes everyone to a Jack of All Trades.

I am not the biggest fan of ASI including your attribute increases or a feat, I feel like if that is the case characters probably should get more, especially the martial characters that want multiple attributes very high... Barbarian and Monk especially seem like they could use built in attribute bonuses or extra ASI's like Rogue and Fighter get...

But I don't think the answer is everyone gets everything... D&D is about making choices, having opportunity costs, and allowing different characters to shine in different situations.

Generally 5E is pretty darn good at getting balance improved.

Ability overload is based on the player, not the character.

Some people get overloaded with the Warlock and others with the Wizard and i've seen some people play a high level wizard and a high level druid in one game.

Ability overload is only a thing If the player makes it a thing, even with a bunch ofnoptions.

[Schopy]

I think a lot of the feats would more or less translate to "rule changes". Dual wielding would just work with two one-handed weapons without needing to check if both of them are light or not for example.

As for having the chars be less diverse, i believe that heavily depends on the table. Not everyone minmaxes all the time and i'm sure there would be wizards without plate and shield.

Other feats could lead to a (homebrew) setting, where every hero has at least a little bit magic (through Magic Initiate and Spell Sniper), would be a bit like Earthdawn.

Thanks everyone for your opinions, might be fun to try that for a less serious one-shot (note to self: thats "fun idea to try" number 326 on an ever growing list)! :-)

Special Thanks to LudicSavant for that awesome list!