Exemplars of Evil

[Person_Man]

The excerpt is up (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20070912a). Noteworthy feats:

Maiming Strike: Sacrifice 2d6 sneak attack damage to deal 1 Cha damage. Highly useful in certain situations. Many enemies have very low Cha, and enemies with high Cha sometimes depend on it for spellcasting. For example, golems have a Cha of 1. So buy that gem-thingy from the magic item compendium that allows you to Sneak Attack constructs, and kill a flanked iron golem in 1 hit. Ability damage is also multiplied on a critical hit. This is definitely going in my next Psychic Assassin build, and perhaps I should take another look at Telling Blow?

Twist the Knife: Forego critical damage to impose a penalty on foe's attacks, damage, saves, and checks. I wonder how steep the penalty will be?

Slippery Skin: Substitute Escape Artist check result for touch AC. Skills are very easy to boost, and Touch AC is a huge weak point for almost every build. A must have for any mage slayer.

Proteus: Exchange a prepared spell for an illusion (glamer) spell. Lots of great potential here. For example, Invisibility is a glamer spell, which means you no longer have to memorize it but always have it handy if you're in need of escape.

Uncanny Forethought: Reserve slots to cast Spell Mastery spells. Might have a lot of potential, if its worded right.


Also, there's apparently even more alternate class features, which have been popular and useful in the past.

Discuss.

[goat]

Taking Charisma to 0 results in helplessness, not death. Also, it may well stop you from reducing the score below 1, some things do.

Slippery skin could make touch attacks more difficult, but is not really worth taking until you're certain you can get a significant boost. It's another feat gone, and unless you know you're going to get a hefty boost, it might not be worth it. Now, if you're a level 10 rogue with 13 ranks, +3 dex bonus and Escape artist taken with Skill Mastery, that 26 touch AC could certainly come into play...

The one that interests me most is "Beloved of Demons", which requires 6 caster levels AND power attack. It's designed for the evil Gish, and could be a good thing to give your BBEG or some of his mooks.

[Telonius]

I'm liking the spells (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20070912a&page=2). Alibi? That would be incredibly handy for some situations. Alliance Undone could be really nasty, depending on how they word it.

Very interesting that the villains get a bit of additional fluff for both Eberron and Faerun.

[Person_Man]

Taking Charisma to 0 results in helplessness, not death.

That's true, but its a nitpick. Being helpless is the same as being dead, for all intents and purposes. You stay helpless (until you heal at least one point of ability damage), and anyone can walk up to you coup de grace you at their leisure.


Also, it may well stop you from reducing the score below 1, some things do.

Possibly. And if that's true then its useless. But I don't think that will be the case.


Slippery skin could make touch attacks more difficult, but is not really worth taking until you're certain you can get a significant boost. It's another feat gone, and unless you know you're going to get a hefty boost, it might not be worth it. Now, if you're a level 10 rogue with 13 ranks, +3 dex bonus and Escape artist taken with Skill Mastery, that 26 touch AC could certainly come into play...

Agreed. Also, 1 level of Exemplar at ECL 10 will give you a +4 bonus to any 1 Skill and the ability to take 10 on (Int modifier + 1) Skills. When combined with this feat, its a great dip for a lot of different builds, especially ToB builds that rely on various Skill checks.

[Zherog]

That's true, but its a nitpick. Being helpless is the same as being dead, for all intents and purposes. You stay helpless (until you heal at least one point of ability damage), and anyone can walk up to you coup de grace you at their leisure.

And just as important, try again if you happen to roll a 20 on your save.


Possibly. And if that's true then its useless. But I don't think that will be the case.

I don't think it would be totally useless. It would just have limited uses. Hit the sorcerer or bard to screw up their spellcasting. Hit the cleric so he'll have a harder time turning your undead minions. Hit the paladin so her saves go down. It definitely limits the usefulness, but it doesn't completely kill it.

It would be best used by somebody who could dish (and hit with) multiple attacks in a round, obviously. Otherwise, a single point of Cha damage isn't very useful.

[Emperor Tippy]

Some of those spells look nice, depending on the specifics.

Infallible Servant looks like it could be particularly fun.

[Jasdoif]

Maiming Strike: Sacrifice 2d6 sneak attack damage to deal 1 Cha damage. Highly useful in certain situations. Many enemies have very low Cha, and enemies with high Cha sometimes depend on it for spellcasting. For example, golems have a Cha of 1. So buy that gem-thingy from the magic item compendium that allows you to Sneak Attack constructs, and kill a flanked iron golem in 1 hit.Constructs are immune to ability damage, though, as is anything else without a Con score.

Or does the gem-thingy bypass that, too?

[Person_Man]

Constructs are immune to ability damage, though, as is anything else without a Con score.

Or does the gem-thingy bypass that, too?

I forget, not having my books in front of me.

If it doesn't, then obviously its not useful against constructs. Though it'd still be very useful against Sorcerers, Bards, animals, vermin, dwarves, PCs dumb enough to dump their Cha too low, etc.

Have a friend pick up Ego Whip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm), and you could be a tremendous tag team, starting as soon as level 3.

[Fax Celestis]

I forget, not having my books in front of me.

If it doesn't, then obviously its not useful against constructs. Though it'd still be very useful against Sorcerers, Bards, animals, vermin, dwarves, PCs dumb enough to dump their Cha too low, etc.

Have a friend pick up Ego Whip (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/egoWhip.htm), and you could be a tremendous tag team, starting as soon as level 3.

Or, play a Joystealer out of MM-IV. Whenever they drain an opponent's Cha score to 0, they get to dominate them. Ego whip and that feat would be mighty awesome.

[BlackStaticWolf]

Twist the Knife: Forego critical damage to impose a penalty on foe's attacks, damage, saves, and checks. I wonder how steep the penalty will be?

Meh... I like the Twist the Knife feat from the Rokugan "Way of the Ninja" sourcebook better.

[AtomicKitKat]

Twist the blade+Hexblade+Blackguard+Pandemonic Silver Curse-spewing Weapon of Subjugation. That should render them pretty much unsavable. Maim is also useful against anything not immune with Supernatural or SLAs, since the DCs are Cha-based. Rapes anyone who tried to be SAD with Charisma.

[goat]

Still, for maiming strike, spending a whole feat to have the potential of doing 1 point of ability damage per round, to an ability that's almost irrelevant for a lot of opponents. It's expensive.

If you knew you were going up against CHA-dependant things, poisons are available (But admittedly saveable), you could tap them with a touch of idiocy, hit them with ego-whip... All without feat investment, and that's without going outside the SRD. It just doesn't seem "cost effective" to me.

[AtomicKitKat]

Still, for maiming strike, spending a whole feat to have the potential of doing 1 point of ability damage per round, to an ability that's almost irrelevant for a lot of opponents. It's expensive.

It's 1 point in the surprise round, and then a full-attack away(if flanked or beat them in the Initiative) to remove 2-10 more points. Coupled with Hamstring, Staggering Strike, etc. to keep them from fleeing.

1 point instantly lowers their Spell DCs(if they munchkin for even numbers, and let's face it, who doesn't with spells?). More than that, and they're beginning to lose their highest level spells. It even works on those who don't rely on Cha, since they typically dump it, and then become even more susceptible to this tactic, going down in fewer hits.

[Person_Man]

Still, for maiming strike, spending a whole feat to have the potential of doing 1 point of ability damage per round, to an ability that's almost irrelevant for a lot of opponents. It's expensive.

If you knew you were going up against CHA-dependant things, poisons are available (But admittedly saveable), you could tap them with a touch of idiocy, hit them with ego-whip... All without feat investment, and that's without going outside the SRD. It just doesn't seem "cost effective" to me.

You are absolutely correct when it comes to fighting normal enemies, but I would argue that you are can still be very helpful when fighting in certain situations.

When fighting normal enemies, ability damage is usually a huge waste, because you should be able to kill them with one or two normal attacks (usually via Power Attack, a maneuver, high Sneak Attack, etc). If you can't do this reliably most of the time, then there's something wrong with your build, and feats like this one are probably why.

When fighting boss enemies, ability damage is usually one of the quickest ways to kill them. They probably have tons of hit points and special protections. But if you can hit them with ability damage, you can often kill or nerf them quite quickly. For example, an ogre, troll, hydra, some giants, anyone who dumps Cha, etc. It also denies Cha based casters access to their high level spells. Also note that ability damage is multiplied on a critical hit. So with a high threat weapon, its easy to get in an extra point of Cha damage every round.

This isn't a great feat. It's a good situational feat. A Whatever 5/Psychic Assassin 5 with Maiming Strike and a Wounding weapon could deal 2 points of Int, 1 point of Cha, and 1 point of Con with each Sneak Attack (ie, every attack you make if you're smart and your enemy isn't immune). with the right poison, you could do even more ability damage on your first hit (which is presumably also a Death Attack). Or you could go Rogue 10/Psychic Warrior 1/Psychic Assassin 5 and add on 2 points of Str damage as well. Certainly its not nearly as effective in combat a charge build of the same ECL that can deal 200 damage per hit and has Pounce. But its a good way for a Skill Monkey class to be useful in certain situations. And really, as a Skill Monkey, that's all you can ask for.