How to make a Bard that's the main caster

[Heloski]

In my group's upcoming campaign we have an odd group composition, we have a large group that will consist of a Fighter, Rogue, Tempest Cleric, Warlock, Artificer, Bard (myself) and a Ranger. The common trend here is that pretty much everyone is a high damage dealing character, focusing on combat. I as the Bard am pretty much alone the face (We're using some homebrew for the warlock so her casting stat is INT to better fit her character) and the main caster, since the cleric is playing her as a blaster. Before knowing this i wanted to play a Swords bard but looking back it seems that a Lore bard (or possible Glamour) will help with casting which our group seems to severely need. This begs the question which I've had lots of troubling answering for myself: How do i make my bard have the role of something like a Wizard, using his spells for versatility and not just combat?

I've looked a bit into this for options like multiclassing and what not (very accessible and easy for my character because we use rolled stats and i rolled exceptionally well with (17,16,16,13,10,10) for my Ability scores the only options that come to mind for me are a Knowledge cleric 2 dip or possibly a Sorcerer dip. The ultimate extreme would be changing him to an enchantment wizard (Enchantment to fit his character, maybe my DM would allow changing the casting stat to CHA considering what the warlock did) but i really like the bard theme and kit, just saying that that is an option though.

Are there any other possible options i missed that would benefit my party and also don't delay my casting too much?

[Nifft]

I personally favor Lore Bards and haven't seen one disappoint a player yet.

First: get to level 6 before multi-classing. You want level 3 spells on time, and the level 6 class feature might be sufficient to dissuade you from multi-classing at all -- but if you still want to multi-class after playing through level 6, you're doing so fully informed of the awesomeness that is the Lore Bard.

Second: look for gear that compensates for your perceived gaps -- for example a Wand of Fireballs can be attuned by any spellcaster, and tossing around up to 6 Fireballs per day makes you somewhat Wizard-like.

Third: consider taking Magic Initiate to pick up two Sorcerer or Warlock cantrips and one extra spell; or take Spell Sniper, which gets you one attack cantrip and makes your spell attacks more likely to hit.

[MarkVIIIMarc]

Why multi class when you want to cast spell and magic initiate exists.

Suggestions

1 have fun with your Bard, pick fun spells.

2 Healing Word rocks! Use it when a party member drops to zero hp as a ranged bonus action and you can still cast a cantrip or attack!

3 Thunderwave, Dissonant Whispers, Fear, Beat Metal, Counterspell, and Shatter are some of my favorites.

4 Phantasmal Force is great, DM dependant

5 The Magic Iniatite Feat can give you the Warlock attack cantrips and the cool but not super powered Hellish Rebuke at less of a cost than multiclassing.

Lore Bards rock.

[Snivlem]

Just pick ritual caster (wizard) and you are good to go (or is that artificer the wizard-subclass? In that case I can't imagine what kind of magic your group is lacking). Go with swords if that is what you want to play. PS your group does not severly need casting when you already have 3/4 full-caster, but ritual caster will take care of most of the utility-wizard spells you may want.

[SirBellias]

Bard's have full casting in 5e anyways, so you can focus on utility spells, I suppose? I'm not sure I understand the question. If you want the bard kit, play a bard.

With that many people, taking a few off the wall things to get yourselves out of weird situations is a good plan, as the rest is covered. You could multiclass, I suppose, but if you want to be the main caster then keeping to one class maximizes your high level spell gain, if I remember my 5e correctly.


Don't worry, you won't have to try very hard to make people wonder what bards can't do.

[Aaron Underhand]

I was in a similar situation. War cleric, Thief rogue, Barbarian, Hunter ranger, Moon druid

I'm lore bard with one level dip in wizard...int 14, shield featherfall and magic missile as typical wizard load, plus most lv1 rituals available and expertise in arcana and investigation. With a few level 1 scrolls I'm a flexible utility caster, plus only need to keep healing word as 1st level bard known spell. This frees up a lot of opportunities to pick interesting higher level utility spells.

Also have the wizard cantrips of course....



Having a blast...

[Finger6842]

Start with STR 10, DEX 17, CON 13, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 16
Add Half-Elf for STR 10, DEX 18, CON 14, INT 16, WIS 10, CHA 18
Take Lore Bard for all the skills, Additional Magical Secrets, Cutting Words, and Jack of all Trades
For party Face duties, take Persuasion (or intimidation), Insight and Investigation. Round out with Performance, Acrobatics, Stealth. Take Expertise in Persuasion +1 more based on role, stealth will help a lot if you will sneak, performance if you will make money in downtime, Acrobatics helps with Saves.

Pick up 1 level of Wizard at level 2 (or level 7 after Additional Magical Secrets) for Shield, Find Familiar, Utility and Ritual spells (From a book). The survivability boost from Shield, Help action from your Familiar, Expanded spell list from Rituals, and Ranged spell options really help round out some bard weak spots (Bow skills will not grow with you to be a viable range attack option). minor illusion, mold earth, mage hand, plus a ranged or control (fire bolt, toll the dead, shocking grasp) make great cantrip choices.

Some people will tell you to go variant Human for the feat but every DM I've ever played with will attack the vision weakness over and over so unless everyone is Human, don't do it, it's a trap.

There are many choices here since it's such a large party. But with your MS picks you can get Haste and make the Warrior, Rogue or Ranger Uber, Counterspell, Banishing Smite, Awaken, Fireball, etc. The choices seem endless but who knows, maybe a Staff or Robe of the Magi will show up later, now you can use them if they do.

[Louro]

Either bard or illusionist will do great there.
Bard offers some nice CC and party face capabilities.
Forget damage. You know, someone must be in charge and remain alert when everyone is jumping over the foes.

[RSP]

If you want to play Swords Bard, play Swords Bard. That said, Lore is better and very fun to play; Cutting Words is probably my favorite Ability in the game.

Regardless of Swords or Lore, you don’t need to multiclass: you get all the support spells you need and you don’t want to push back Bard abilities for 1st level abilities. If you really want a specific spell or cantrip, use a feat: your stats are great and you’ll survive passing on an ASI just fine.

The Bard list is already perfect for support: Sleep, Heroism, Phantasmal Force, Enhance Ability, Suggestion, Fear, Hypnotic Pattern, etc... (you don’t need Fear and Hypnotic, I prefer Fear but there are situations where Hypnotic is better).

Basically: play what you want, and Bards are so good you don’t want to multiclass.

[Derpaligtr]

Why multi class when you want to cast spell and magic initiate exists.

Suggestions

1 have fun with your Bard, pick fun spells.

2 Healing Word rocks! Use it when a party member drops to zero hp as a ranged bonus action and you can still cast a cantrip or attack!

3 Thunderwave, Dissonant Whispers, Fear, Beat Metal, Counterspell, and Shatter are some of my favorites.

4 Phantasmal Force is great, DM dependant

5 The Magic Iniatite Feat can give you the Warlock attack cantrips and the cool but not super powered Hellish Rebuke at less of a cost than multiclassing.

Lore Bards rock.

Beat Metal
Level 2
Range: 5'
Component: Metal weapon, metal pipe, or metal tool

As an action you beat a weapon, metal pipe, or metal tool against the face or body of a creature.

The target has disadvantage on any roll of a d20 they attempt before the start of your next turn. A successful Constiution saving throw reduces this penalty to just having disadvantage on their next d20 roll before the start of your next turn.

[the secret fire]

Crikey! A seven person party, and you're worried about how to fit in a bard?

Just play what you want, have fun, and be nice to your DM (huge parties are the worst).

[Toadkiller]

Yeah - play what you want to play and have fun. It’s the DM’s job to figure out how to take the characters and have a story.

[Louro]

Yeah - play what you want to play and have fun. It’s the DM’s job to figure out how to take the characters and have a story.
Heck NO!
It is your job to create your character. Put at least a bit of effort into it.

I fukin hate those players who want to play a samurai ninja assassin dual wielding katanas in an European fantasy scenario.

[Derpaligtr]

Heck NO!
It is your job to create your character. Put at least a bit of effort into it.

I fukin hate those players who want to play a samurai ninja assassin dual wielding katanas in an European fantasy scenario.

As a fellow player, it's really none of your business what my character is. Keep your *badwrongfun* to yourself.

[the secret fire]

Heck NO!
It is your job to create your character. Put at least a bit of effort into it.

I fukin hate those players who want to play a samurai ninja assassin dual wielding katanas in an European fantasy scenario.

If you're DMing, it's perfectly reasonable to exclude certain aesthetics from your game (I do it all the time). If you're a player, however, the only good way to deal this problem is to vote with your feet (which I have also done).

[Derpaligtr]

If you're DMing, it's perfectly reasonable to exclude certain aesthetics from your game (I do it all the time). If you're a player, however, the only good way to deal this problem is to vote with your feet (which I have also done).

As a DM it's your job to work with the players to make sure they're having fun. You can have aesthetics but if you run off players for something so trivial... I would leave too (and have done).

Ir you're a player who gets whiney because someone else's character doesn't fit what you want it too... Good riddance.

Maybe my ninja/samurai's shogun was digraced and killed by another shogun and im biding my time before I get revenge by traveling to a new continent?

Just about anything can be justififed. A rogue and a ninja are the same thing except for fluff.

You have no right to run off another player because of **FLUFF**

[Heloski]

I personally favor Lore Bards and haven't seen one disappoint a player yet.

First: get to level 6 before multi-classing. You want level 3 spells on time, and the level 6 class feature might be sufficient to dissuade you from multi-classing at all -- but if you still want to multi-class after playing through level 6, you're doing so fully informed of the awesomeness that is the Lore Bard.

Second: look for gear that compensates for your perceived gaps -- for example a Wand of Fireballs can be attuned by any spellcaster, and tossing around up to 6 Fireballs per day makes you somewhat Wizard-like.

Third: consider taking Magic Initiate to pick up two Sorcerer or Warlock cantrips and one extra spell; or take Spell Sniper, which gets you one attack cantrip and makes your spell attacks more likely to hit.

Thank you so much, this will be massively helpful. The magic Initiate feat seems like a really good option, i had no idea about that wand or most want magic items (I've only played martial characters in 5e). I actually was planning on the cleric dip for 7th level then i can use Magical secrets to cast higher level spells even though i don't get them as a Bard. The additional utility and spells known will round my Bard out with something like 36 spells by the end so that is plenty versatile for me!

[Keravath]

I would also suggest considering the lore bard possibly with a multi class dip.

By the time the lore bard reaches level 6 they can have a good selection of spells.

Healing Word
Faerie Fire
Dissonant Whispers
Suggestion
Blindness
Phantasmal Force
Shatter
Hypnotic Pattern
Fireball
Counterspell

This list covers crowd control (hypnotic pattern - amazing spell in many cases), area damage (fireball), single target debuff (blindness ... which does NOT use concentration), dissonant whispers which does decent damage but can also force an opponent to flee triggering multiple op attacks, faerie fire lights up everyone who fails giving all the single target direct damage folks you your team advantage to hit each and counterspell which can be very useful against enemy casters.

However, the lore bard also picks up 3 additional skill proficiencies at level 3, expertise in 2 skills (I like persuasion and perception but others ar good too) cutting words which can save you or your allies from being hit at the cost of your reaction (... or use it to reduce the damage on an area of effect spell since it will prevent that damage for anyone affected).

Lore bard is extremely versatile.


The one area they lack is single target direct damage. One way to remedy this is by taking a 2 level multiclass into hexblade warlock (in my case, it fitted my characters back story really well). However, this mechanically adds the ability to use charisma if you need to roll an attack roll with a one handed weapon, proficiency with shields and medium armor, hexblade's curse, 2 invocations (agonizing blast and devil's sight are popular), hex, shield, 2 short rest first level spell slots and eldritch blast/toll the dead ... two very effective single target damage cantrips that scale (one of the biggest weaknesses for bards). The down side is that it will slow your spell progression. You can wait to take the levels until after level 6 or bite the bullet and take them early in which case level 3 spells from magical secrets won't be available until level 8 ... however, you will be able to contribute a lot more single target damage in combat over the intervening levels, and will be a lot less squishy with medium armor + shield + shield spell for defence.

[Nidgit]

Honestly? Don't even worry about multiclassing to fill in for your party. If your Warlock is INT-based, there's a good chance she's going Tomelock and taking the improved ritual casting invocation. Rogue has your back on skillmonkeying. Tempest Cleric can at least take some healing and buffing duties.

As a Bard in your firepower-heavy party, focus on battlefield control and buffs/debuffs, with healing as a secondary focus. This is easiest to accomplish with Lore Bard but can still be perfectly functional with a Swords Bard. Utility spells are nice but shouldn't be a priority; you have enough magical backup that your party will be fine either way. Play what you want- you'll have time later to fill in any gaps you find.

[the secret fire]

As a DM it's your job to work with the players to make sure they're having fun. You can have aesthetics but if you run off players for something so trivial... I would leave too (and have done).

I dunno. I tend to run campaigns which are in some ways mechanically restrictive, with certain options in the PHB (e.g. races, classes) altered or banned. I am especially hard on races. Yes, I am a fantasy racist, and no, your tabaxi does not belong in my campaign. I do not understand what people like about kitchen sink settings.

[KorvinStarmast]

Maybe my ninja/samurai's shogun was digraced and killed by another shogun and im biding my time before I get revenge by traveling to a new continent? Nice little Hollywood western from the 70's that fits this theme: Red Sun: Charles Bronson, Toshiro Mifune, Ursula Andress

By the time the lore bard reaches level 6 they can have a good selection of spells.

Healing Word
Faerie Fire
Dissonant Whispers
Suggestion
Blindness
Phantasmal Force
Shatter
Hypnotic Pattern
Fireball
Counterspell

This list covers crowd control (hypnotic pattern - amazing spell in many cases), area damage (fireball), single target debuff (blindness ... which does NOT use concentration), dissonant whispers which does decent damage but can also force an opponent to flee triggering multiple op attacks, faerie fire lights up everyone who fails giving all the single target direct damage folks you your team advantage to hit each and counterspell which can be very useful against enemy casters.

The lore bard also picks up 3 additional skill proficiencies at level 3, expertise in 2 skills (I like persuasion and perception but others ar good too) cutting words which can save you or your allies from being hit at the cost of your reaction (... or use it to reduce the damage on an area of effect spell since it will prevent that damage for anyone affected).

Lore bard is extremely versatile. And in this party, need not worry about the direct damage issue since there are plenty of damage dealers.

[Nifft]

Thank you so much, this will be massively helpful. The magic Initiate feat seems like a really good option, i had no idea about that wand or most want magic items (I've only played martial characters in 5e). The Wand of Fire is especially good, and it's in core (DMG), so it's probably available. Talk to your DM about what other items might be available -- there might be a Staff or Rod which is good for you, or something from another source.



I actually was planning on the cleric dip for 7th level then i can use Magical secrets to cast higher level spells even though i don't get them as a Bard. The additional utility and spells known will round my Bard out with something like 36 spells by the end so that is plenty versatile for me! Just don't actually make any decisions about multi-classing until you've played through 6 levels of Bard. You might not need to multi-class at all -- and if you take Bard through level 8, you have another opportunity for either +2 Cha or Magic Initiate.

If you do multi-class, also consider Paladin 2. Two levels gets you more spells available than Cleric would have gotten (since you're using Cha mod instead of Wisdom), and you can use your slots to Smite. It's a smaller list, and it's not as front-loaded as a Domain, but it's quite good Charisma synergy.

Finally, as mentioned before, Warlock 2 gets you impressive ranged damage, and Hexblade 2 gets you great melee in addition. I suspect you won't need that -- your party seems quite capable of delivering damage -- so you might get significantly more value out of staying a pure Bard and using Cutting Words etc. to save your friends & control the encounter rather than being yet another dedicated damage dealer.

[ErHo]

I dunno. I tend to run campaigns which are in some ways mechanically restrictive, with certain options in the PHB (e.g. races, classes) altered or banned. I am especially hard on races. Yes, I am a fantasy racist, and no, your tabaxi does not belong in my campaign. I do not understand what people like about kitchen sink settings.

Modern generations dont like to be told "No" ?