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Rhody
2018-08-18, 05:47 PM
Okay, for starters, I've never homebrewed a class before. So I'm probably awful at it. Which is why I'm looking mostly for feedback regarding balance/power level, and
then secondarily whether it's interesting or clearly explained.

Anyway, this is my idea for a Wildshape subclass that focuses even less on spells, and even more on Wildshape combat, than a Moon Druid. What I did was simply take the levels that a Ranger gets its subclass features, and switch them out for Wildshaping abilities. So, without further ado, and lacking any flavor text for the Subclass, here is the Wild-Morph Ranger.

Level 3: Wild Form:
Starting at 3rd level, you can use a bonus action to magically assume the shape of a beast that you have seen before. The beast you change into may not have a fly speed. You can transform into a beast with a challenge rating as high as 1. You can stay in a beast shape for a number of minutes equal to your ranger level. Using Wild Form uses a level 1 spell slot.

Level 7: Starting at 7th level, you can transform into a beast with a challenge rating as high as your ranger level divided by 3, rounded down.
Starting at 7th level, your attacks in beast form count as magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance and immunity to nonmagical attacks and damage.
Starting at 7th level, the beast you change into can now have a fly speed.
If you use Wild Form to change into a beast with a challenge rating as high as your ranger level divided by 3, rounded down, it uses a level 2 spell slot.

Level 11: Your Wild Form choices can now include plant forms, and you may choose a beast or plant with a CR of up to half of your level.
Using Wild Form to change into a beast or plant with up to half your challenge rating uses a level 3 spell slot.
Also, if you expend an extra spell slot of the corresponding required level, your Wild Form now lasts a number of hours equal to half your ranger level (rounded down), instead of a number of minutes equal to your ranger level.

Level 15: Each time you use Wild Form, you gain temporary hit points equal to your level + Wisdom modifier. These temporary hit points are lost if you leave your Wild Form. Furthermore, once per long rest, you can use Wild Form to change into a beast or plant with a challenge rating of less than half your ranger level without using a spell slot.

And that's that.

Vogie
2018-08-20, 08:44 AM
Okay, it really depends on what you really want to do with it.

Right now, it's significantly worse than a moon druid dip, save you get a fly speed 1 level earlier.

Because you're having it as an archetype, you're going to be severely limited, which I do see you've done by limiting it to mere minutes (instead of hours) and spell slots (only max 10-ish/day).

If you want a more versatile WildShaping Ranger, you could use the skeleton of the Spell-less ranger- that is, replace the spellcasting ability completely with Wild shape feature from druids, allowing some unique interactions as you'd be able to get hunter archetype features mixed in with a wild shaped brawler.

If you'd want a more unique archetype, perhaps limit the shapeshifting in particular ways to focus your content:

Limit the shapeshifting to a single animal, giving a Were- feel (Werewolf, weretiger, werebear, wereraven, et cetera) that could be magic, or lycanthrope, or being cursed by Lolth to turn into a giant spider, or whatever
Limit the shapeshifting to only animals of a certain size, locking it into either utility forms (small/tiny only) or just combat form (medium/large+)
Expand the Natural explorer/Favored terrain feature, using things like the land druid domains, to put bounds on the shapeshifting - a Desert Ranger won't be able to shift into a Gorilla, but a Jungle Ranger could.
Limit the shapeshifting to a small list of animals (not unlike the Patron of Gaia archetype in my sig)
Limit the shapeshifting to the Hybrid forms. This could be something like the actual Hybrid forms (in the DMG under Weretiger, for example) or an ability to take on the Aspects of Animals (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Animal Aspect) (in addition to things like Aspect of the Bear, Eagle Eye, Aboleth's Lung, Cat's Grace, Lockjaw, Owl's Wisdom) (these are all Pathfinder Spells that would need to be ported, but you can see the style).
Make the shapeshifting in name only, such as giving the animal-based bonuses that the Totem barbarian have.

Rhody
2018-08-20, 10:37 AM
Okay, it really depends on what you really want to do with it.

Right now, it's significantly worse than a moon druid dip, save you get a fly speed 1 level earlier.

Because you're having it as an archetype, you're going to be severely limited, which I do see you've done by limiting it to mere minutes (instead of hours) and spell slots (only max 10-ish/day).

If you want a more versatile WildShaping Ranger, you could use the skeleton of the Spell-less ranger- that is, replace the spellcasting ability completely with Wild shape feature from druids, allowing some unique interactions as you'd be able to get hunter archetype features mixed in with a wild shaped brawler.

If you'd want a more unique archetype, perhaps limit the shapeshifting in particular ways to focus your content:

Limit the shapeshifting to a single animal, giving a Were- feel (Werewolf, weretiger, werebear, wereraven, et cetera) that could be magic, or lycanthrope, or being cursed by Lolth to turn into a giant spider, or whatever
Limit the shapeshifting to only animals of a certain size, locking it into either utility forms (small/tiny only) or just combat form (medium/large+)
Expand the Natural explorer/Favored terrain feature, using things like the land druid domains, to put bounds on the shapeshifting - a Desert Ranger won't be able to shift into a Gorilla, but a Jungle Ranger could.
Limit the shapeshifting to a small list of animals (not unlike the Patron of Gaia archetype in my sig)
Limit the shapeshifting to the Hybrid forms. This could be something like the actual Hybrid forms (in the DMG under Weretiger, for example) or an ability to take on the Aspects of Animals (http://www.archivesofnethys.com/SpellDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Animal Aspect) (in addition to things like Aspect of the Bear, Eagle Eye, Aboleth's Lung, Cat's Grace, Lockjaw, Owl's Wisdom) (these are all Pathfinder Spells that would need to be ported, but you can see the style).
Make the shapeshifting in name only, such as giving the animal-based bonuses that the Totem barbarian have.


First, thank you very much for the feedback!

Secondly, I want to address the weaknesses of it. I'm not sure if I completely understand some of your points. Is it weaker as a dip than Moon Druid is as a dip? Or is it in its entirety weaker than Moon Druid is as a dip? Any chance you could specify that?

Also, it's meant to be somewhat more combat-oriented than the Moon Druid. Hence more uses, but more limited in time.

Lastly, at level 12, the Wild Morph Ranger can access forms as strong as a level 18 Moon Druid, and they only increase from there. At lvl 14, CR 7, at lvl 16, CR 8, and at lvl 18, CR 9. Those are creatures that the Moon Druid can never access.

Now, as far as the flavor/mechanics aspect, such as limiting it to certain environments, or hybrid forms, they are certainly interesting. But I'm not sure how that makes it LESS weak than the Moon Druid. I think I missed that part too.

But mostly, I'm just grateful for the feedback! So thank you!

Shmeebly
2018-08-20, 06:51 PM
Secondly, I want to address the weaknesses of it. I'm not sure if I completely understand some of your points. Is it weaker as a dip than Moon Druid is as a dip? Or is it in its entirety weaker than Moon Druid is as a dip? Any chance you could specify that?


I think Vogie means that this archetype is weaker because Moon Druid gets (theoretically) infinite uses per long rest since they recharge on a short rest (then they do get infinite uses at level 20). To be a shifting Ranger you could just take two levels in Druid and get a lot of uses of Wild Shape (sure no flight/swimming but they recharge on a short rest) without using spell slots. This also lasts at a minimum for an hour. Also while Wild Shaped the Ranger can't use spells or weapons (unless you shift into an Ape I guess but then you're really only trying for an HP buffer) so why would a Ranger focus on this besides flavor?



Also, it's meant to be somewhat more combat-oriented than the Moon Druid. Hence more uses, but more limited in time.


I think this could be good as a separate class, not a specialization. If there was a class centered on shifting forms (they could shift into, like Vogie said, different beasts based on terrain OR give each shifting type a different monster type to shift into [celestial, fiend, beast, aberration, etc] though I'm not sure that's really balanced) then it would be better than sort of... removing the Ranger combat aspect of being a Ranger? But that's just my opinion I suppose.



Lastly, at level 12, the Wild Morph Ranger can access forms as strong as a level 18 Moon Druid, and they only increase from there. At lvl 14, CR 7, at lvl 16, CR 8, and at lvl 18, CR 9. Those are creatures that the Moon Druid can never access.


I don't think there are any beasts CR above 8, and only two (T-Rex which, might not be possible since you might never get the chance to see one, and Giant Ape) above 6 CR (the cut off for Moon Druid). So I suppose this becomes a "Do I REALLY want to be a Ranger who gets a kind of more free form, but also not as free Wild Shape as my SPECIALIZATION for essentially two more monsters? Or should I be a Druid who eventually gets limitless Wild Shapes (granted this argument is a little... iffy considering that's a level 20 capstone) and full spellcasting?"
If that's what really piques your interest then that's that I suppose.
To me, though, this seems more like a different class that could be made.

I think if you make it so that there are different Were-forms the Ranger could take that would be better, like Vogie said. Like:
At level 3 you gain the ability to shift into a Were-form as a bonus action. This form lasts for 10 minutes or until you end it as a bonus action. This duration increases to an hour at level 7 and only ends when you fall unconscious or willingly end it at level 17. While in this form your unarmed strikes deal 1d6+STR piercing damage instead of 1+STR. You can do this twice per short rest when you gain this feature and gain another use at level 7, level 11, level 15, and level 17. While in any of these ground forms you gain a 10 foot increase to your walking speed. The forms you can take are:

Boar - if you take damage equal to your Ranger level+5 that drops you to 0, you can instead drop to 1 [once per shift]; increase AC by +2 (if not in heavy armor); you gain temporary hit points equal to level+CON (minimum of 1 temporary hit point gained)
Tiger - you gain 60 foot Darkvision; advantage on PER checks that rely on smell; whenever you move more than 20 feet in a straight line before hitting a creature with a melee weapon attack you can make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, on a hit you heal for half of the damage you dealt (minimum of 1).
Snake - you gain 30 foot Blindsight; whenever you hit a creature with an unarmed strike they must make a CON save against your Ranger spell save DC or take an additional 2d10+CON poison damage; as a bonus action you can coat a weapon with your poison, the poison must be used before the end of your next turn or the poison dries/falls off the weapon [recharge 5-6].

When you reach level 7 you gain the ability to shift into an aquatic form. In any of these forms you have a swim speed equal to your walking speed or 30 feet, whichever is higher, and can breathe water and air. The forms are:

Shark - you gain 30 foot Blindsight; you have advantage on the first strike per turn you make against a creature that is not at max HP; each attack that hits causes the creature to bleed for another 2d4 damage (piercing/slashing of the same type as the initial strike) at the start of its turn.
Alligator - your AC increases by +2 (if not in heavy armor); on a critical you deal an additional damage die; whenever you have a creature grappled you can use a bonus action to make an unarmed strike against it, this strike crits on an 18-20.
Electric Eel - whenever you hit a creature with an unarmed (melee, maybe?) strike they must make a CON save against your Ranger spell save DC or be unable to take reactions until its next turn and take 2d6+CON lightning damage, you have advantage on any attempts made to escape a grapple or other restraint, you are immune to lightning (maybe resistance? Or something else entirely?).

At level 11 you gain the ability to shift into forms that allow flight. While in any of these forms you grow wings capable of flying at a speed equal to your walking speed or 30 feet and, whichever is higher, your wings may cause the clothes you wear to be destroyed if they are not tailored to fit the growth of wings. The forms are:

Eagle - you have advantage on any PER checks relying on sight and dim light doesn't impose disadvantage on perceptions checks for you; your fly speed increases by 10 feet, you can carry four small creatures, or two medium creatures, or one large creature without any drop in speed.
Hawk - you have advantage on any attacks made against a creature while one of your allies are within 5 feet of it and not incapacitated, as an action you can dive onto a creature if you plummet 20 feet your attack deals 2d8+STR bludgeoning damage and the creature must make a STR save against your spell DC (if Large or smaller) or be knocked prone, ranged attacks are no longer at disadvantage if your target is prone.
Owl - you gain 120 foot Darkvision, your movement no longer provokes opportunity attacks, you have advantage on STL checks, you can not be surprised.

At level 15 your Beast Forms have permanent effects and you gain resistance while in the forms.

Ground - your walking speed increases by 10 feet permanently. You gain resistance to poison damage while in a Ground form.
Water - you gain the ability to breathe air and water and gain a swim speed equal to your walking speed. You gain resistance to cold damage while in a Water form.
Air - you grow wings capable of a flight speed equal to your walking speed (OR falling 50 feet or less does not harm you since perma-flight may or may not be too strong). You have resistance to lightning damage while in an Air form.

I'm not sure if you'll like these or if they are balanced or anything. Maybe use it as a skeleton and work from there? Or decide this is stupid all around. This way the Ranger can still cast spells and use weapons. I tried to put in some melee options for melee Rangers (sort of oxymoronic but hey, they exist).

Vogie
2018-08-20, 08:10 PM
Also, it's meant to be somewhat more combat-oriented than the Moon Druid. Hence more uses, but more limited in time.

Lastly, at level 12, the Wild Morph Ranger can access forms as strong as a level 18 Moon Druid, and they only increase from there. At lvl 14, CR 7, at lvl 16, CR 8, and at lvl 18, CR 9. Those are creatures that the Moon Druid can never access.

Now, as far as the flavor/mechanics aspect, such as limiting it to certain environments, or hybrid forms, they are certainly interesting. But I'm not sure how that makes it LESS weak than the Moon Druid. I think I missed that part too.

You have less uses, until higher levels, (assuming 2 SRs per LR) and a moon druid dip is going to be stronger, across the board... they'd get more wild shapes at low levels, more spell slots (which aren't consumed by wild shape uses) and the addition of whatever ranger features you have - favored enemy, Gloom Stalker's extra attack, hunter's extra damage, PG's guardian form, et cetera. And you only get wild form for minutes on end until it randomly jumps, at level 11 to 5 hours, inexplicably.

However, if you do a spell-less ranger, replacing the spellcasting completely with a wild form, that gives you the ability to pump more power into the wild shape features.

I do like the idea of having it combat-oriented, and short. I think you could actually expand on it, but using the rage template from the barbarians - one minute durations of wild shape, and have it grow in number equal to your proficiency bonus.

You could boilerplate the barbarian rage feature skeleton, including a damage increase and advantage of saving throws, if you wanted it to keep it at X per Long rest, or you can dial it down to 1-minute bonus action Wild Forms, and have them refresh on Short Rests.

Those are the Limitations I was referring to: Things like duration, amount use, how often it recharges, added bonuses, et cetera. These are all levers that allow you to adjust the power level of the classes/archetypes that you are creating. Being able to shift into CR 9 beasts sounds really cool, provided that there are CR 9 beasts to actually shift into.

If you were to limit the Ranger to only a handful of wild shapes, you can pump up the power level. If you wanted to do a single shape (or hybrid form), a la lycanthrope, you can also crank up the power to a high level (and use the Primeval Guardian archetype as a template).

Rhody
2018-08-20, 09:01 PM
I'll address the rest, but I just wanted to say first that while there may be no CR 9 beasts, there are CR 9 plants... Or plant, rather. The Treant.

Rhody
2018-08-20, 09:21 PM
Also, it is interesting that you mention another class altogether, because I initially wanted a class that was COMPLETELY spell-less and shapeshifted. But into more extraordinary forms that that of a druid. Namely, the choice between a Draconic Form, a Celestial Form, and a Fiendish Form. But I wasn't sure how to design the class...
That would be something I'd like to do, but I don't think my knowledge is sufficient. And obviously it would need a different thread. :)