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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next Generic Classes [Warrior, Expert and Spellcaster]



Jormengand
2018-08-20, 03:23 AM
These classes are designed to minimise character-building decisions needed to play them, making them perfect for new players or to whip up a new character or semi-unique NPC in a hurry.

The Expert
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d8 per expert level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 8 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d8 (or 5) + your Constitution modifier per expert level after 1st.

Proficiencies
Armour: Light armour
Weapons: Simple weapons
Tools: Alchemist's supplies, plus any 2
Saving Throws: Dexterity, Intelligence
Skills: Any 3

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:


(a) a simple weapon or (b) a light crossbow and 20 bolts
(a) a simple weapon or (b) a shortbow and 20 arrows
(a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
Leather armour, two flasks of alchemist's fire, alchemist's supplies and two daggers.





Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features


1st
+2
Alchemist, Expertise


2nd
+2
Jack of All Trades


3rd
+2
Extra Proficiencies


4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement


5th
+3
Extra Attack


6th
+3
Expertise


7th
+3
Master Crafter


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement


9th
+4
The Right Tools


10th
+4
Competitive Spirit


11th
+4
Reliable Talent


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement


13th
+5
Quickened Skill


14th
+5
Extra Proficiencies


15th
+5
Iron Heart


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement


17th
+6
Expertise


18th
+6
Exceptional Crafting


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement


20th
+6
True Expert



Class Features
As an expert, you gain the following class features.

Alchemist
You are highly skilled at alchemy, to the following benefits:

You are proficient in alchemical weapons (acid, alchemist's fire, holy water and oil), and don't treat them as improvised weapons.
You can throw alchemical weapons at a short range of 30 feet and a long range of 120 feet.
When you throw an alchemical weapon, even if you miss, you it immediately deals an extra point of damage per expert level you have, of the same type of its normal damage. You may either have this extra damage only dealt to the target, or to each creature within 5 feet of them as well (holy water still only damages fiends and undead).
You can produce a potion of healing in 1 hour, a vial of acid, alchemist's fire or antitoxin or a healer's kit in 10 minutes, or a flask of oil or basic poison in 1 minute, at no cost to yourself. These items last for 16 hours before becoming useless, and only function when used or administered by you.

Expertise
At 1st level, and again at 6th and 17th level, choose two of your skill or tool proficiencies. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses either of the chosen proficiencies.

Jack of All Trades
Starting at 2nd level, you can add half your proficiency bonus, rounded down, to any ability check you make that doesn't already include your proficiency bonus.

Extra Proficiencies
At 3rd level and again at 14th level, choose three extra skills and/or tools to become proficient in.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Master Crafter
From 7th level, any item you craft (including with your alchemist feature) takes half as long to craft.

The Right Tools
From 9th level, you can make a check with tools at no penalty or disadvantage when using improvised tools.

Competitive Spirit
From 10th level, creatures have disadvantage on opposed skill checks against you.

Reliable Talent
By 11th level, you have refined your chosen skills until they approach perfection. Whenever you make an ability check that lets you add your proficiency bonus, you can treat a d20 roll of 0 or lower as a 10.

Quickened Skill
From 13th level, whenever a skill or tool would require your action to use, you can use your bonus action or your action to use that skill.

Iron Heart
From 15th level, you are proficient in all saving throws.

Exceptional Crafting
From 18th level, any item you craft (including with your alchemist feature) takes half as long to craft.

True Expert
From 20th level, you have advantage on skill checks.

Spellcaster
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d6 per spellcaster level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 6 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d6 (or 4) + your Constitution modifier per spellcaster level after 1st.

Proficiencies
Armour: None
Weapons: Simple weapons
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Wisdom, Charisma
Skills: Arcana, Religion

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:


(a) a simple weapon or (b) a light crossbow and 20 bolts
(a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack
An arcane focus.





Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features
Cantrips Known
1st
2nd
3rd
4th
5th

6th

7th
8th
9th


1st
+2
Spellcasting

4
2
-
-
-

-

-

-

-

-



2nd
+2
Spell Retention (1d6)

4
3
-
-
-

-

-

-

-

-



3rd
+2

4
4
2
-
-

-

-

-

-

-



4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement
5
4
3
-
-

-

-

-

-

-



5th
+3

5
4
3
2
-
-

-

-

-

-



6th
+3
Spell Retention (2d6)

5
4
3
3
-
-

-

-

-

-



7th
+3

5
4
3
3
1
-

-

-

-

-



8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement
5
4
3
3
2
-

-

-

-

-



9th
+4

5
4
3
3
3
1

-

-

-

-



10th
+4
Spell Retention (3d6)

6
4
3
3
3
2

-

-

-

-



11th
+4

6
4
3
3
3
2
1

-

-

-



12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement
6
4
3
3
3
2
1

-

-

-



13th
+5

6
4
3
3
3
2
1

1

-

-



14th
+5
Spell Retention (4d6)

6
4
3
3
3
2
1

1

-

-



15th
+5
Iron Heart
6
4
3
3
3
2
1

1

1
-



16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement
6
4
3
3
3
2
1

1

1

-



17th
+6

6
4
3
3
3
2
1

1

1

1


18th
+6
Spell Retention (5d6)

6
4
3
3
3
3
1

1

1

1



19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement
6
4
3
3
3
3
2

1

1
1



20th
+6
Irresistible Spell

6
4
3
3
3
3
2

2
1

1




Class Features
As a spellcaster, you gain the following class features.

Spellcasting
You have, one way or another, obtained the power to cast spells.

At 1st level, you know four cantrips of your choice from the sorcerer spell list. You learn additional sorcerer cantrips of your choice at higher levels, as shown in the Cantrips Known column of the Spellcaster table.

The Spellcaster table shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell's level or higher. You regain all expended slots when you finish a long rest.

Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher
You know all spells of a level you can cast from the sorcerer spell list.

Spellcasting Ability
Charisma is your spellcasting ability for your spellcaster spells, since the power of your magic relies on your ability to project your will into the world. You use your Charisma whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Charisma modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a spellcaster spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.
Spell Save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier
Spell Attack Modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Charisma modifier

Spellcasting Focus
You can use an arcane focus as a spellcasting focus for your spellcaster spells.

Spell Retention
From 2nd level, whenever you cast a non-cantrip spell, you can roll 1d6. If the die comes up equal to or lower than the spell slot's level, the slot is expended as normal and you can't use this feature again until you complete a long rest. Else, the slot isn't expended. At each of 6th, 10th, 14th and 18th level, you get an extra d6. From 6th level, if all the dice come up equal to or lower than the spell slot's level, the slot is expended as normal and you remove one die; if all dice come up higher than the spell slot's level, the slot isn't expended and no dice are expended; if some dice come up higher and some the same or lower, the slot isn't expended but one die is. You regain all expended dice when you complete a long rest.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Irresistible Spell
When you reach 20th level, you have advantage on spell attack rolls and creatures have disadvantage on saving throws against your spells.

Divine Spellcaster
You can modify the spellcaster to use divine spellcasting by using the cleric spell list, changing the spellcasting ability to wisdom, and having it use a holy symbol instead of an arcane focus.

The Warrior
Hit Points
Hit Dice: 1d10 per warrior level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + your Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + your Constitution modifier per warrior level after 1st.

Proficiencies
Armour: All armour, shields
Weapons: Simple weapons, martial weapons
Tools: None
Saving Throws: Strength, Constitution
Skills: Perception

Equipment
You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:


(a) chain mail or (b) leather armor, longbow, and 20 arrows
(a) a martial weapon and a shield or (b) two martial weapons
(a) a light crossbow and 20 bolts or (b) two handaxes
(a) a dungeoneer's pack or (b) an explorer's pack





Level
Proficiency Bonus
Features


1st
+2
Fighting Style


2nd
+2
Hard to Kill


3rd
+2
Juggernaut


4th
+2
Ability Score Improvement


5th
+3
Extra Attack


6th
+3
Ability Score Improvement


7th
+3
Backswing


8th
+3
Ability Score Improvement


9th
+4
Deadly Force (1d6)


10th
+4
Ability Score Improvement


11th
+4
Extra Attack (2)


12th
+4
Ability Score Improvement


13th
+5
Deadly Force (2d6)


14th
+5
Ability Score Improvement


15th
+5
Iron Heart


16th
+5
Ability Score Improvement


17th
+6
Deadly Force (3d6)


18th
+6
Very Hard to Kill


19th
+6
Ability Score Improvement


20th
+6
Extra Attack (3)




Class Features
As a warrior, you gain the following class features.

Fighting Style
You adopt a particular style of fighting as your speciality. Choose one of the following options. You can't take a Fighting Style option more than once, even if you later get to choose again.

Archery: You gain a +2 bonus to attack rolls you make with ranged weapons.
Defence: While you are wearing armor, you gain a +1 bonus to AC.
Duelling: When you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons, you gain a +2 bonus to damage rolls with that weapon.
Great Weapon Fighting: When you roll a 1 or 2 on a damage die for an attack you make with a melee weapon that you are wielding with two hands, you can reroll the die and must use the new roll, even if the new roll is a 1 or a 2. The weapon must have the two-handed or versatile property for you to gain this benefit.
Protection: When a creature you can see attacks a target other than you that is within 5 feet of you, you can use your reaction to impose disadvantage on the attack roll. You must be wielding a shield.
Two-Weapon Fighting: When you engage in two-weapon fighting, you can add your ability modifier to the damage of the second attack.

Hard to Kill
From 2nd level, you gain a measure of resistance to lesser injuries. The damage dealt by an attack against you is reduced by half your warrior level, after accounting for resistance or vulnerability to that type of damage.

Juggernaut
From 3rd level, by paying 10% of your current hit points, you can negate an effect which would blind, charm, deafen, frighten, incapacitate, paralyse, petrify, poison, restrain or stun you, knock you prone or unconscious, or cause any levels of exhaustion.

Ability Score Improvement
When you reach 4th level, and again at 6th, 8th, 10th, 12th, 14th, 16th, and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.

Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn. The number of attacks increase to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class.

Backswing
Beginning at 7th level, the first time per round that you miss with an attack, you can re-roll the attack roll to see if you actually hit.

Deadly Force
At 9th level, and every 4th level thereafter, you add 1d6 points of true damage to any attack you make. True damage is a special damage type that cannot be prevented, resisted or mitigated by any means.

Iron Heart
From 15th level, you are proficient in all saving throws.

Very Hard to Kill
From 18th level, you have advantage on death saves. Further, when you are reduced to 0 hit points, you may choose to keep on fighting. You continue to take death saves as normal (with advantage) and being struck while at 0 hit points causes you to fail death saves automatically as normal.

noob
2018-08-20, 04:52 AM
If it was 3.5 I would say the warrior gets deadly force too late.
But I do not know which kind of damage benchmark a fighter should reach in dnd 5e.
At the same time I am comparing to the https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/classes/brute
Which gives 1d4 extra damage at level 3
in fact the brute is probably more front-loaded in offence than your archetype and offence is really needed for fighting.
Since people rarely go at very high levels having some offence boosting ability at low level is quite needed.

Derpaligtr
2018-08-20, 07:28 AM
I think the warrior and expert, if going generic class, should be the same class. Then allow the player to pick n choose how much expert and warrior they want.

Much like how a spell caster will pick n choose between utility and raw power.

Amnoriath
2018-08-20, 09:09 AM
The Warrior outclasses almost every other extra attack base class except maybe a well played Paladin. 3d6 on every attack with a Fighter's Extra Attack progression nearly doubles the damage each time each round. Addiotionally Hard to kill makes it so that numbers of smaller foes or some light attack oriented character classes can't hurt. The notion of not taking damage if hit is unheard of in 5e hold immunity as hit points are treated as stamina.

noob
2018-08-20, 09:11 AM
The Warrior outclasses almost every other extra attack base class except maybe a well played Paladin. 3d6 on every attack with a Fighter's Extra Attack progression nearly doubles the damage each time each round. Addiotionally Hard to kill makes it so that numbers of smaller foes or some light attack oriented character classes can't hurt. The notion of not taking damage if hit is unheard of in 5e hold immunity as hit points are treated as stamina.

Well it still have a problem: it does not gets features boosting its attack(other than the extra attack and weapon specialisation all fighters gets) before level 7.
Endgame damage is way less important than early damage since people usually spends less time below level 7 than time above level 7.

Amnoriath
2018-08-20, 01:18 PM
Well it still have a problem: it does not gets features boosting its attack(other than the extra attack and weapon specialisation all fighters gets) before level 7.
Endgame damage is way less important than early damage since people usually spends less time below level 7 than time above level 7.
1. Don't justify an imbalanced feature because "Well, most campaigns will never reach level 20 or around there," They made the levels go that high so the entirety must be evaluated.
2. It becomes imbalanced at level 11, I am merely stating it gets worse as it gets higher.

noob
2018-08-20, 02:04 PM
1. Don't justify an imbalanced feature because "Well, most campaigns will never reach level 20 or around there," They made the levels go that high so the entirety must be evaluated.
2. It becomes imbalanced at level 11, I am merely stating it gets worse as it gets higher.

What I say is that this class is underpowered relatively to the other generic classes and even when compared to a regular brute fighter(when at low level killing opponents is more useful than surviving or else your opponents kills allies or make you lose in non damaging ways) and it is not less underpowered at level 11 when compared to a spellcaster who can cast any sorcerer spell.
In fact at higher levels the gap between the spellcaster and the warrior increase over time as the spellcaster gets casting of higher and higher levels of spell and due to that in fact progress faster.

Derpaligtr
2018-08-20, 02:25 PM
1. Don't justify an imbalanced feature because "Well, most campaigns will never reach level 20 or around there," They made the levels go that high so the entirety must be evaluated.
2. It becomes imbalanced at level 11, I am merely stating it gets worse as it gets higher.

Counter point: 5e high levels aren't really balanced. Moon Druid capstone and quivering palm versus say... Draconic capstone or pretty much any other capstones.

Not saying this shouldn't be balanced... But it aint like 5e core is either.

Jormengand
2018-08-20, 04:17 PM
I feel like hard to kill will never actually make you invincible except at high levels against the same types of enemies that survivor will make you functionally unkillable by. I also feel like deadly force only does a little bit more damage than brute force at even the highest levels, and a fighter can action surge whereas a warrior can't, meaning that the brute fighter will deal 2d6+d10+5 damage eight times (average 140) while the warrior will do 5d6+5 four times (average 90). Even if the fighter chooses not to use an action surge, the damage is in the same kind of region and the fighter, unlike the warrior, has a variety of ways to regain hit points.

Each of warrior, expert and spellcaster absolutely excels in one particular thing: fighting, skills, or spellcasting. However, they eschew the versatility that a normal class provides via its subclasses and for the most part just in general - a spellcaster is better at casting spells than anyone else, but the bard has bardic inspiration and a ton of skills; a wizard has access to minor conjuration, one of the most bah-roken abilities in the game; a sorcerer's metamagic almost makes them better at spellcasting than the spellcaster. An expert has better skills than a rogue, but misses out on sneak attack and a variety of other roguish abilities.

Similarly, a warrior is better at fighting than the fighter because that's its only selling point. It gets proficiency in one skill that you don't even get to choose, and no out-of-combat abilities, and the fighter can still outdamage it twice per day (by taking an archetype that has no real selling points except for being good at hurting people). Honestly, it seems mostly on-par with the fighter at all levels as far as I can really see.

Derpaligtr
2018-08-20, 04:23 PM
Casters tend to have spells that negate skills or make it where said skills can't be used as then it would nefate the spell.

So casters spellcast and do skills.

Fly negates jumping, climbing, and acrobatics/athletics.

Maybe not at-will but those skills will never touch the spells at all or ever.

A charisma check ain't doing the same thing as hypolnotic patterns, despite a really good speech in the real world being able to basically do the same thing.

So generically speaking, there are two classes. Martial and Magic.

Jormengand
2018-08-20, 04:40 PM
Casters tend to have spells that negate skills or make it where said skills can't be used as then it would nefate the spell.

So casters spellcast and do skills.

Fly negates jumping, climbing, and acrobatics/athletics.

Maybe not at-will but those skills will never touch the spells at all or ever.

A charisma check ain't doing the same thing as hypolnotic patterns, despite a really good speech in the real world being able to basically do the same thing.

So generically speaking, there are two classes. Martial and Magic.

This is only sort-of true and depends on what spell list you have, what level you are, and what the skill (or tool) you're trying to emulate is.

SodaQueen
2018-08-20, 04:53 PM
I appreciate what you're trying to do but 5e is pretty dang fast in the character creation department, even for people with zero prior experience with TTRPGs. If someone really needs a character fast, it's easy to just google a quick build character generator.

Even just picking an archetype early and using the quick build options in the PHB is fairly expedient. The only thing that might slow the process down is picking spells, which unfortunately, these classes don't really remedy aside from the Spellcaster using spells comparable to the sorcerer. Maybe pre-chosen sets of spells based on theme/function? That might go a long way to speeding up character creation.

Derpaligtr
2018-08-20, 04:55 PM
This is only sort-of true and depends on what spell list you have, what level you are, and what the skill (or tool) you're trying to emulate is.

Nolot really.

Any spell list you give casters that has utility/skill based spells will be giving those spellcasters access to skill and power. Especially in a generic system

Unless you take away the genericness of said casters...

So to be legit 1:1, you can't split up expert/warrior unless you're going to split up the caster the same way.

So the spellcaster would need to be a power spellcaster class (sorcerer?) and utility/skill spellcaster (magician?).

Or else you're already putting the people who choose spellcasters on a leg up on how they design their character.

Never understood why it was taboo for a warrior to be skilled, but not a spellcaster.

Amnoriath
2018-08-20, 07:47 PM
Jormengand, you are ultimately saying the Warrior is balanced to other martial because you took an op UA subclass(made due to lack of satisfaction with the Champion) and you're claiming that even though your Warrior consistently out damages, handles more damage, has more ASI's and has better saves than the Brute. Your class is balanced because it has one less skill proficiency and may deal less damage in about 8 rounds of combat in the day? That is cherry picking.

Amnoriath
2018-08-20, 07:53 PM
Your Expert has the opposite problem, it gets to the extent where nothing has a reasonable chance in any skill to beat it, but it sucks in combat. Simple weapons and only an Extra Attack with only a bonus action skill check? All it will do is make checks against creatures which only can do light control up to Large creatures at most.

Amnoriath
2018-08-20, 08:00 PM
Supporting what Derpalightr is saying, giving knowledge of every Sorcerer spell is ultimate versatility. Then with Spell Retention you give them the chance to spam more spells will just make that versatility all the more apparent.

Amnoriath
2018-08-20, 08:38 PM
And Finally, true damage? What are you trying to kill a Barbarian, Rogue or the like?

FlameUser64
2018-08-20, 09:14 PM
Furthermore, hyperspecializing on one aspect of play is not balanced. You either end up useless for around half to two thirds of play while you dominate the remaining portion (as with the Warrior and Expert) or, if your specialization is something so broad as all magic, you dominate all aspects of play. In the former case, this results in you not having fun for half to two thirds of your time spent playing, while in the latter case it results in other players not having fun while you do everything better than they ever could.

(Or, if you're 3.5e fighter, you end up mediocre at best in one aspect of play while being useless in the others.)