M.Dwarf Champion or BM

[Whit]

What’s a better build and suggestions.
Mountain dwarf stats str 15(17),con 14(16), wis 13, Dexterity 12, cha 10, int 8.
Int&Cha&dex don’t matter much but Dex will give +1 to initiative each round which seems more important than int or cha.
1. Battlemaster s&b going to level 10 for example.
Lvl 1 defense fight style +1 ac
Lvl 4 feat shield master bonus action each round to knock prone enemy. athletics strength check vs same or Dex acrobatic.
Lvl 6 stat increase str +2 (19) or str (18) con (17)
Lvl8 feat sentinel
Lvl 10 7 maneuvers, 5 superior dice at d10
Ac 19-21 without magic bonus.
Initiative +1
Damage 1d8 +4 + superior dice

Or champion
Same stats
Lvl 1 defense fight style +1 ac
Lvl 3 Crit on 19-20
Lv 4 shield master
Lvl 6 stat increase str (19) or str 18 and con 17
Lvl 7 add 1/2 prof to str,Dex,con checks that don’t use prof (2)
Lvl 8 feat sentinel
Lvl 9 reroll save x1
Lvl 10 fight style protection
Ac 19-21 without magic bonus
Initiative +3 Dex and 1/2 proficiency bonus
Damage 1d8+4

Or would champion or BM with two handed weapon with feats GWM and sentinel be better with lower ac -2 between 17-19

[Derpaligtr]

What exactly do you want put of this character? Pretty much every option ends at the same result. Doing a little bit more damage or a little bit more utility is good at low levels but the higher you get things start becoming immune to abilities that shove (because things get weird or really big).

5e is not a game that needs to be optimized. They took a design concept of 4e and brought the floor up in most cases.

Battle Master is the better subclass, by a little. But if you want simplistic gameplay then the champion will suit you better.

Edit

One of my favorite dwarf feats is the Mobile feat. Especially when playing a fighter or rogue.

[Whit]

If I went s/b the main option is more tank with shield master I get better saves and bonus action. Shove prone or move and sentinel gives extra attack if not hitting me. Champion adds more initiative and better crit chance with small damage. And extra fight style to disadvantage enemy attack.

BM gives more versatility maneuvers more damage with superior dice with same feat shove prone shield master and hit more sentinel. But loses second fight style protection.

Or go more damage with two handed weapon and just get sentinel and GWM but lower ac and no shield mastery or protection f style.

[Kadesh]

Why do you keep making the same thread?

[sky red hunter]

battlemaster is more fun to play than champion, the manoeuvres are amazing. they offer versatility in combat, knocking enemies prone or giving advantage, even attacking as a reaction when an enemy misses you with an attack.

Im running a human variant two weapon fighter, battlemaster.

If I change the race to dwarf this is how you'd look:


Dwarves Battlemaster
Lvl 1 two weapon fighting style. 2x handaxes ( 1d6 +3) --AC 16
Lvl 4 feat:dual weilder - +1ac and can now wield two battle-axes ( 1d8 +3 ) --AC17
Lvl 6 feat: martial adept, +2 manoeuvres +1 d6 sd
Lvl8 feat sentinel/tough/+2str/+2con all are good choices
Lvl 10 maneuvers=9, superior dice=6 and now at d10 ( martial adept die also increases )

Two attacks and a bonus off hand attack per round with 6 dice and 9 options for manoeuvres

for more sd and manoeuvres you could take martial adept at level 8 too

on a side note with the stats you have, an option is to take a feat that bumps your str x1 and gives a little extra on top like squat nimbleness: +1 str, +5ft walking speed, prof in acrobatics or athletics, adv on escaping from grapples

[Willie the Duck]

Lvl 6 stat increase str +2 (19) or str (18) con (17)

Given that you haven't listed any feats you want to even these out, I would either 1) instead boost your Str to 18 with Heavy Armor Mastery or similar str-boosting 1/2 feat, or 2) put the extra +1 attribute into Wisdom.

Overall, I like champion for Shield Master builds. The marginal difference between Champion and BM drops when you aren't using BM to increase accuracy for GWM/SS attacks. Down to the point where a little simplicity is almost as useful as any marginal increase in overall DPR (and not having to decide when to best use your maneuvers).


Or would champion or BM with two handed weapon with feats GWM and sentinel be better with lower ac -2 between 17-19

There is no right answer. Does your group need a guy who hits harder (potentially ending combat quicker), or takes less damage each fight?

Also, what do you intend to do for ranged situations? If it's "I'll chuck 1 javelin" either way (or "the DM has a house-rule on drawing thrown weapons for high-level fighters"), then either works. With that 12 Dex, though, I can imagine a bow coming into play, in which case a shield-wielder is at a disadvantage.

[Derpaligtr]

battlemaster is more fun to play than champion, the manoeuvres are amazing. they offer versatility in combat, knocking enemies prone or giving advantage, even attacking as a reaction when an enemy misses you with an attack.



Ehhh... They both have issues and I wouldn't call BM amazing in yhe slightest. It's a glorified champion who has a lot of the same limitations.

[sky red hunter]

Ehhh... They both have issues and I wouldn't call BM amazing in yhe slightest. It's a glorified champion who has a lot of the same limitations.

champion is very vanilla compared to the battlemaster. depending on the manoeuvres you pick you can customise an endless variety of warriors.

tripping attack can give you immediate adv on the next attack on a target, even if it fails its an extra d8 of damage.

distracting attack gives someone else adv, used alongside a rogue this is huge!! as adv gives them sneak if they wouldn't already have it. an interesting thing to do is hit an enemy with distracting strike and then use commanders strike to have the rogue at with adv and get sneak and then when their go comes round they can attack and possibly sneak again, getting the most from your rogue.

riposte is a great use of your reaction, some enemy misses you with an attack and you can use your reaction to smack him instead

all these moves get an extra d8 damage too, some of the manoeuvres add to the atk roll or to your ac but the best ones give more damage.

on top of all this you could go with a ranged fighter, using a bow and disarming foes from 200+ feet away, shooting them from up high and knocking them prone for party members to finish off. or simple scaring them with menacing attack if you don't want them chasing or following you.

these don't seem like limitations to me and i haven't even mentioned them all. a champion crits better....great.

champion in battle:

round one - i attack!!
round two - i attack!!
round three - i attack!!

battlemaster in battle:

round one - i attack and attempt to knock him prone!!
round two - i attack and attempt to disarm him!!
round three - i attack and attempt to frighten him!!

I know which one id prefer to play as, the battle master is amazingly versatile and fun to play.

[Derpaligtr]

champion is very vanilla compared to the battlemaster. depending on the manoeuvres you pick you can customise an endless variety of warriors.

tripping attack can give you immediate adv on the next attack on a target, even if it fails its an extra d8 of damage.

distracting attack gives someone else adv, used alongside a rogue this is huge!! as adv gives them sneak if they wouldn't already have it. an interesting thing to do is hit an enemy with distracting strike and then use commanders strike to have the rogue at with adv and get sneak and then when their go comes round they can attack and possibly sneak again, getting the most from your rogue.

riposte is a great use of your reaction, some enemy misses you with an attack and you can use your reaction to smack him instead

all these moves get an extra d8 damage too, some of the manoeuvres add to the atk roll or to your ac but the best ones give more damage.

on top of all this you could go with a ranged fighter, using a bow and disarming foes from 200+ feet away, shooting them from up high and knocking them prone for party members to finish off. or simple scaring them with menacing attack if you don't want them chasing or following you.

these don't seem like limitations to me and i haven't even mentioned them all. a champion crits better....great.

champion in battle:

round one - i attack!!
round two - i attack!!
round three - i attack!!

battlemaster in battle:

round one - i attack and attempt to knock him prone!!
round two - i attack and attempt to disarm him!!
round three - i attack and attempt to frighten him!!

I know which one id prefer to play as, the battle master is amazingly versatile and fun to play.

The battlemaster moves n attacks just the same. Sure you have maneuvers, but they are new and shiny at level 3 but don't get any better going forward. Everything the battlemaster does, outside of a few things, anyone can do, just not as "fast". This is the same thing with the champion, everything thing they do can be done by anyone, just not as "fast".

Not saying you can't have fun with them, just that they both have the same issues and flaws.

If it wasn't for remarkable athlete being so badly designed, I would say the battle master is worse off than the champion.