Homebrew: the Footpad, a Strength-build Archetype for the Rogue

[Grognerd]

Hello! First time poster here! In fact, I created this account just so I could run this build by any critical eyes and see how it was received. I previously posted elsewhere on the net and have heard nothing but crickets, so after re-naming a few things and making some adjustments, I thought I'd visit the playground and see if people here are more helpful. Based on what I've seen of the boards so far, I have a feeling they will be.

While I love the traditional rogue, the sly and dexterous type, I'm open to other ideas and wouldn't mind seeing a viable Strength-build character. On the other hand, it still needs to play like a Rogue, and not just be a Fighter with underworld trappings. Also, I wanted it to be balanced with current official options so that it was viable but not twinked out. As such, I did try to error on the side of caution. So with this in mind, I developed the following. Please look it over and let me know what you think. All criticism - constructive or otherwise - is welcome!

(Disclaimer: I know there are other Strength-build archetypes out there, but I haven't looked at many of them. I wanted this one to be my own and to get an idea of this one's viability before checking out others' approaches. Plus, the few that I looked at seemed to keep ignoring the rogue aspects of the character and essentially just tried to make it into a pseudo-Fighter. I'm trying to keep the stealthy rogue aspect alongside the Strength aspects.)

The Footpad


The footpad is a thief, a con artist, and a sneak, just like any other rogue. But unlike other rogues, footpads do not shy away from the rougher aspects of the underworld. They are not thuggish fighters, but they are ruthless, efficient, and as brutally violent as they need to be to accomplish whatever mission they have set before them.

Level 3:
Dole it Out, Take it Back
Masters of the art of pain and intimidation, footpads gain proficiency in all one-handed, non-Heavy martial melee weapons. They may also use these weapons when conducting a Sneak Attack, and double the weapon’s damage die when doing so.
Further, footpads’ background in violence has taught them both to roll with punches as well as to brace and take a hit. They may choose to substitute their STR modifier for their DEX modifier when determining Armor Class, with the same restrictions (ie. Light Armor receives the full modifier, Medium Armor only up to +2 [+3 with Medium Armor Mastery], and Full Armor receives no benefit).
Finally, footpads may always opt to use their Strength rather than their Charisma for Intimidation checks.

Level 9:
Mugging Mastery
At 9th level, footpads have become so adept at the art of “forceful withdrawal” from their targets that when conducting a Sneak Attack, they may use a Bonus Action to either make a second attack (without the Sneak Attack bonus) or use their Sleight of Hand skill to pick the victim’s pocket or plant an item on the target. If the Sleight of Hand skill is used, the target has Disadvantage to notice the skill use due to the distraction of the attack.

Level 13:
Frightening Implications
At this level, the footpad has practiced “aggressive negotiations” enough that they always use Intimidation with Advantage unless something would otherwise make it impossible (where they cannot use Intimidation) or Disadvantaged (in which case they use Intimidation as normal). Those intimidated by the footpad also suffer the same penalties as if they were Frightened until the end of the footpad’s next turn.

Level 17:
Lingering Pain
The footpad has mastered not only the ability to inflict pain, but also the ability to make that injury linger. They may choose to inflict lingering pain on the target of a successful Sneak Attack, requiring a CON Save against DC (8+Proficiency Bonus+Strength Modifier). If the victim fails the save, they immediately gain one level of Exhaustion. The footpad may do this three times; the ability is reset after a Long Rest.

[Mourne]

Welcome to the forum!


(Disclaimer: I know there are other Strength-build archetypes out there, but I haven't looked at many of them. I wanted this one to be my own and to get an idea of this one's viability before checking out others' approaches. Plus, the few that I looked at seemed to keep ignoring the rogue aspects of the character and essentially just tried to make it into a pseudo-Fighter. I'm trying to keep the stealthy rogue aspect alongside the Strength aspects.)


JNAProductions has a post for a full class Enforcer that covers some similar ground – a strength based rogue. Probably a good thread to read (and concept to mine material/ideas from).

That being said, I do love the rogue class and have made quite a few archetypes (most of which are likely too bad to be shared). Below are my thoughts on your footpad...


Level 3:
Dole it Out, Take it Back
Masters of the art of pain and intimidation, footpads gain proficiency in all one-handed, non-Heavy martial melee weapons. They may also use these weapons when conducting a Sneak Attack, and double the weapon’s damage die when doing so.

Further, footpads’ background in violence has taught them both to roll with punches as well as to brace and take a hit. They may choose to substitute their STR modifier for their DEX modifier when determining Armor Class, with the same restrictions (ie. Light Armor receives the full modifier, Medium Armor only up to +2 [+3 with Medium Armor Mastery], and Full Armor receives no benefit).
Finally, footpads may always opt to use their Strength rather than their Charisma for Intimidation checks.

I'd separate this into the more normal “two features at 3rd level” format though it still might be a little OP overall as I generally try to have a skill/tool/language feature and one “defining” feature that’s not too powerful but sets up the archetype. ymmv.

For Dole it Out, I personally prefer the increase to sneak damage die versus the doubling of the weapon damage die. The power is not as much in the beginning but scales as the rogue gains more sneak attack die. To put it in perspective, the footpad would generally see an average increase of 3.5 damage (assuming a d6 based weapon) adding another die to their weapon’s rolled damage. Increasing the size of the sneak die adds an extra 1 damage per die (from 3.5 to 4.5 average) – so an average of 2 damage on a successful sneak at 3rd level to an average of 10 damage at the highest level. Of course, this is somewhat predicated being able to perform a sneak attack.

Something along these lines as a suggestion...

Dole It Out
Masters of the arts of pain and intimidation, you gain proficiency with all martial melee weapons that do not have the heavy or two-handed property. When using a martial melee weapon that you have proficiency with, you use a d8 instead of a d6 when rolling your sneak attack damage.


As for Take It Back, this is a hard one as I think granting medium armor proficiency is probably a little too much at this level coupled with the “defining” feature (Dole It Out). On top of that, there are some added benefits. It might be enough here to just grant medium armor proficiency. The route I would suggest is below but is certainly not perfect (especially since – as the intent is a Str build – the increase to max Dex bonus may infer a MAD build).

Maybe something along these lines?

Take It Back
Your background in violence has taught you how to take a hit and the benefits of heavier forms of protection. You gain proficiency with medium armor. While wearing medium armor you do not suffer disadvantage to stealth rolls and the max dexterity modifier is increased to 3.



Level 9:
Mugging Mastery
At 9th level, footpads have become so adept at the art of “forceful withdrawal” from their targets that when conducting a Sneak Attack, they may use a Bonus Action to either make a second attack (without the Sneak Attack bonus) or use their Sleight of Hand skill to pick the victim’s pocket or plant an item on the target. If the Sleight of Hand skill is used, the target has Disadvantage to notice the skill use due to the distraction of the attack.

This level usually is used for a useful ribbon space or “build upon a skill set or theme”. I don’t really have a good suggestion other than tweaking your current feature. The suggestion may actually be too punishing/weak as it does negate your sneak attack damage (obviously, something that could be changed).

At 9th level, you have become adept at the art of “forceful withdrawal” from your targets. When you have advantage on an attack roll against a target, you may forgo your sneak attack die to instead make a second melee attack. If this attack hits, you deal no damage, but are able to gain an object that the targeted creature has on its person that is not in its hand or otherwise in an inaccessible location.



Level 13:
Frightening Implications
At this level, the footpad has practiced “aggressive negotiations” enough that they always use Intimidation with Advantage unless something would otherwise make it impossible (where they cannot use Intimidation) or Disadvantaged (in which case they use Intimidation as normal). Those intimidated by the footpad also suffer the same penalties as if they were Frightened until the end of the footpad’s next turn.

Most typically a “ribbon” level for the rogue. I took one of the features you had at level 3 and moved it here and cleaned up the wording a little. Granting the frightened condition may be a little too strong (especially since a save is not offered) – you could always opt to use something along the lines of “has disadvantage on all skill checks” or something similar.

By 13th level, you have mastered “aggressive negotiation” techniques. You may use your Strength modifier in place of your Charisma modifier when attempting Charisma (Intimidation) checks. Any creature that you successfully intimidate gains the frightened condition until the start of its next turn.


Level 17:
Lingering Pain
The footpad has mastered not only the ability to inflict pain, but also the ability to make that injury linger. They may choose to inflict lingering pain on the target of a successful Sneak Attack, requiring a CON Save against DC (8+Proficiency Bonus+Strength Modifier). If the victim fails the save, they immediately gain one level of Exhaustion. The footpad may do this three times; the ability is reset after a Long Rest.

I think the exhaustion mechanic is not used too often on the PC’s opponents – except maybe the BBEG (or other minor bosses). This could just be my experience. As an alternative, I think the following mechanic might be interesting and fits with this concept. It’s hopefully somewhat balanced by the action cost and saving throw.

Starting at 17th level, you not only inflict pain, but have learned to make injuries that linger. When you successfully inflict damage with a sneak attack, you may use a bonus action to deal a particularly painful wound. The target must attempt a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + proficiency bonus + Strength modifier). On a failed save, the damage the target suffered from the initial attack and any other damage the target receives cannot be healed until the end of their next turn.

Best of luck!

[Grognerd]

Hello Mourne! Thanks for the greeting, and - of course - the feedback!

I did look at JNAProductions Enforcer at your suggestion. It had some things to definitely look at mining in it, but I also think that JNA and I are approaching this from two perspectives. The impression that I got from reading it is that JNA was building a class around the thug who punches you in the face, while I was going for an archetype of the thug who thumps you in the back of the head. A small distinction, perhaps, but I think that is where some of our "flavor" differs. I'm definitely going to look it over again, though, since I was multitasking with work when I looked at it earlier.

I thought I'd reflect on your comments as well...


I'd separate this into the more normal “two features at 3rd level” format though it still might be a little OP overall as I generally try to have a skill/tool/language feature and one “defining” feature that’s not too powerful but sets up the archetype. ymmv.

FWIW, I did originally have this in two features. The inspiring line was "don't dish it out if you can't take it," and originally I had this written up with the first feature "dole out punishment..." and the second feature "...take a hit." I combined them here since I didn't know if having two discreet 3rd level features was necessary, or if I might as well keep the phrase intact and just have one feature with two elements.


For Dole it Out, I personally prefer the increase to sneak damage die versus the doubling of the weapon damage die.

I like this idea! I think I'm good with adopting your exact verbiage (with your permission?) as you expressed it:

Dole It Out
Masters of the arts of pain and intimidation, you gain proficiency with all martial melee weapons that do not have the heavy or two-handed property. When using a martial melee weapon that you have proficiency with, you use a d8 instead of a d6 when rolling your sneak attack damage.

I really don't know what to do with Take It Back. I was deliberately trying to avoid giving the Footpad proficiency with Medium Armor, since that seems to lean towards a sneaky fighter theme rather than the more violent sneak theme that I was hoping to convey with this. And, of course, I was hoping to not eliminate but at least reduce the MAD aspects of the character. If the character is going to have any facility in traditional thieving acts, some DEX is necessary anyway. I just didn't want that to be overly emphasized.

I could be wrong, but your take on it giving 1) proficiency with medium armor, and 2) the Medium Armor Mastery feat seems more OP than simply substituting the STR mod for the DEX mod with all the same restrictions. On the other hand, maybe there is another way...

What do you think about this?

Take A Hit
Your background in violence has taught you how to roll with punches or take a hit better than most. Your Hit Point maximum is increased by +1 HP per class level.

This obviously is cribbed from the Hill Dwarf , and when compared to Toughness is virtually a "half-feat".

Regarding the higher levels... I definitely wanted to build on a skill or theme for both the 9th level and the 13th level ability. I added the Frighten ability to the Intimidation rules of Lvl. 13 since without that it just seemed a bit weak for a 13th level ability. However, what if I switched the order of the two? Then I could reduce the aspects of Frightening Implications. So for level 9, we have this:

Frightening Implications
By 9th level, you have mastered “aggressive negotiation” techniques. You may use your Strength modifier in place of your Charisma modifier when attempting Intimidation checks, and make Intimidation rolls with advantage.

Then I would have the Mugging Mastery, which for a 13th level ability perhaps I could leave as-is without it being OP. I don't like taking away the sneak attack damage, since the image in my mind was the classic scene when someone is thumped, and then reaches down to realize that their weapon/wallet/keys/etc. were pilfered simultaneously. I gave the option of a basic attack since a violent rogue like the Footpad might warrant two attacks per round on occassion, but I wanted there to be restrictions on it rather than simply assigning an Extra Attack. So keeping everything the same, except moving it to 13th level; what do you think? Sufficient?

Mugging Mastery
At 13th level, footpads have become so adept at the art of “forceful withdrawal” from their targets that when conducting a Sneak Attack, they may use a Bonus Action to either make a second attack (without the Sneak Attack bonus) or use their Sleight of Hand skill to pick the victim’s pocket or plant an item on the target. If the Sleight of Hand skill is used, the target has Disadvantage to notice the skill use due to the distraction of the attack.

You are right about the Exhaustion mechanic not being used on NPCs/Monsters that often. I just thought the slow reduction of rolls as the hits kept coming was a cool and distinct thing. But since it isn't often used with NPCs/Monsters, you are correct in that it might not be practical or optimal. At the same time, I'm not sure if the restriction on healing really grabs me. I like where you are going with this though. So what if we went with something more like this:

Lingering Pain
Starting at 17th level, you not only inflict pain, but have learned to make injuries that linger. When you successfully inflict damage with a sneak attack, you may use a bonus action to deal a particularly painful wound. The target must attempt a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + proficiency bonus + Strength modifier). On a failed save, the target makes all rolls with disadvantage until the end of their next turn.

Ok... so, how does that look? Mourne? Anyone else?

[Mourne]

FWIW, I did originally have this in two features. The inspiring line was "don't dish it out if you can't take it," and originally I had this written up with the first feature "dole out punishment..." and the second feature "...take a hit." I combined them here since I didn't know if having two discreet 3rd level features was necessary, or if I might as well keep the phrase intact and just have one feature with two elements.

I guess I understood the intent (as in it was a combined feature), I just tend to get trapped into maintaining the exact structure of the archetypes to the best of my ability. My own flaw I suppose.


I like this idea! I think I'm good with adopting your exact verbiage (with your permission?) as you expressed it

Certainly. I did have some other thoughts here that might work also and better fit your intended theme now that it is more clear to me…

Allow the footpad to apply their Str mod & Dex mod when using finesse weapons

Masters of the arts of pain and intimidation, when making an attack with a finesse weapon, you use both your Strength and Dexterity modifier for the damage rolls.

…or by using a bonus action to “prep” their weapon, a footpad can apply the finesse property to any weapon until the start of their next turn.

Masters of the arts of pain and intimidation, you can use the more damaging weapons typically favored by brutes and warriors -- learning the heft and balance of a particular weapon as part of an attack. As a bonus action, you can apply the finesse property to a single melee weapon that are wielding until the start of your next turn.



I could be wrong, but your take on it giving 1) proficiency with medium armor, and 2) the Medium Armor Mastery feat seems more OP than simply substituting the STR mod for the DEX mod with all the same restrictions. On the other hand, maybe there is another way...

Hmm. True. What I was really going for here was trying to simplify the feature and have it not require an investment into Strength. This is a difficult design point at this level as the first feature is already somewhat “defining” the archetype.




Take A Hit
Your background in violence has taught you how to roll with punches or take a hit better than most. Your Hit Point maximum is increased by +1 HP per class level.

This obviously is cribbed from the Hill Dwarf , and when compared to Toughness is virtually a "half-feat".

Your use of the hill dwarf trait is probably perfect (and likely does not even need any re-wording from the racial trait). As an alternate, now that I have better feel for your intended concept, how about something along these lines (scales, somewhat unique)…

Your background in violence has taught you how to roll with punches or take a hit better than most. As a reaction when struck by an attack, you can spend a number of Hit Dice up to your proficiency modifier. Roll these die and reduce the damage by this amount. If this reduce the damage to less than 0, the remaining amount is gained as temporary hit points until the start of your next turn.

Hit Die expended in this manner are consumed just as if used during a short rest and are recovered in the same manner.



Regarding the higher levels... I definitely wanted to build on a skill or theme for both the 9th level and the 13th level ability. I added the Frighten ability to the Intimidation rules of Lvl. 13 since without that it just seemed a bit weak for a 13th level ability. However, what if I switched the order of the two? Then I could reduce the aspects of Frightening Implications. So for level 9, we have this:

Frightening Implications
By 9th level, you have mastered “aggressive negotiation” techniques. You may use your Strength modifier in place of your Charisma modifier when attempting Intimidation checks, and make Intimidation rolls with advantage.

It’s certainly fine like that but now that I’m approaching this from a non-Strength perspective, I wonder if there’s another way to approach this? Maybe something along the lines of…

Ill Got Gains
At 9th level, you have mastered “aggressive negotiation” techniques and have advantage when attempting Charisma (Intimidation) checks.

In addition, you learn to easily move the items that you obtain when “negotiating” and can locate a friendly fence within most settlements, ready to purchase the goods you acquire. Items you sell cannot be identified as stolen and the selling price is increased by 10%.


Then I would have the Mugging Mastery, which for a 13th level ability perhaps I could leave as-is without it being OP. I don't like taking away the sneak attack damage, since the image in my mind was the classic scene when someone is thumped, and then reaches down to realize that their weapon/wallet/keys/etc. were pilfered simultaneously. I gave the option of a basic attack since a violent rogue like the Footpad might warrant two attacks per round on occassion, but I wanted there to be restrictions on it rather than simply assigning an Extra Attack. So keeping everything the same, except moving it to 13th level; what do you think? Sufficient?

Yeah. This works well. You’re definitely correct in that touching the sneak attack damage was the wrong way to go (in my iteration).



Mugging Mastery
At 13th level, footpads have become so adept at the art of “forceful withdrawal” from their targets that when conducting a Sneak Attack, they may use a Bonus Action to either make a second attack (without the Sneak Attack bonus) or use their Sleight of Hand skill to pick the victim’s pocket or plant an item on the target. If the Sleight of Hand skill is used, the target has Disadvantage to notice the skill use due to the distraction of the attack.

You are right about the Exhaustion mechanic not being used on NPCs/Monsters that often. I just thought the slow reduction of rolls as the hits kept coming was a cool and distinct thing. But since it isn't often used with NPCs/Monsters, you are correct in that it might not be practical or optimal. At the same time, I'm not sure if the restriction on healing really grabs me. I like where you are going with this though. So what if we went with something more like this:

Don’t get me wrong, I love exhaustion as a mechanic… I just don’t see if used too often other than on a PC.



Lingering Pain
Starting at 17th level, you not only inflict pain, but have learned to make injuries that linger. When you successfully inflict damage with a sneak attack, you may use a bonus action to deal a particularly painful wound. The target must attempt a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + proficiency bonus + Strength modifier). On a failed save, the target makes all rolls with disadvantage until the end of their next turn.

It would probably be enough to note that the target gains the poisoned condition (in this context, poisoned meaning nauseous or in extreme pain). Although, this would allow some creatures to have (an unintended) innate resistance to this feature.

I mean, I think it’s fine…just maybe not enough as a capstone. Given that a thief gains an extra turn during the first round and an assassin can double their damage (albeit on a surprised creature), this might be a little behind the curve.

Some brainstorming…

Starting at 17th level, you not only inflict pain, but have learned to make injuries that linger. When you successfully inflict damage with a sneak attack, you may use a bonus action to extend the pain of the wound. The target must attempt a Constitution saving throw (DC 8 + proficiency bonus + Dexterity modifier). On a failed save, the target suffers damage equal to half the inflicted damage at the start of their next turn.

Wording isn't the best... but conveys the idea.

[Grognerd]

Thanks again, Mourne! Good thoughts. I didn't hear from anyone else, so I wrote this up at Homebrewery...

https: // homebrewery. naturalcrit. com/ share/ HJrDvAH0IX

I'll have to review and compare all of the new suggestions if I go for a 2.0!

Thanks again for the input; definitely better with your assistance!