Help with building a Necromancer.

[Tekrow]

Hey guys, I would like some help regarding playing a necromancer. What is more effective, Wizard or Cleric? What spells are a must? Any tips on how can I keep a steady supply of corpses? Thanks for the help!

[Rixitichil]

I am a big fan of the Trickery Cleric Ninja skeletal warband which uses Pass Without Trace to move undetected.

[Ogun]

I would stick with skeletons, they don't seem to need humanoid remains,just a pile of bones,easy to come by.
I have no direct experience with 5e necromancers, but a divine soul would have access to both spell lists,and sorcery points,for what it's worth.
Death clerics twinning ability ,armor and weapons seem better if you want to get personal with attacking.
Necro wizards make more undead,and make them more powerful.

I like clerics, wizards and sorcerers are too squishy, or I just suck at playing them.
Maybe play a small race and ride a medium Skeleton, I'm not sure how that would work out.
An armored palaquin is also classy.
Maybe play a forge domain Cleric to make custom equipment easily.
I'm rather fond of skeletons in burkas, with appropriate padding.

Even with no special boosts, Animate Dead makes you a necromancer, so go hog wild .
Consider the Help action, and remember your minions will all act as one.
That being the case, it might be better for you to Help them ,rather than them helping you.
Oversized weapons do double damage at Disadvantage, your Help Action cancels that out.

[Throne12]

A vhuman divine soul sorcerer or valor bard. makes for a great necromancer. As human free feat take inspiring leader feat to give all your undead temp hp

[Tekrow]

I would stick with skeletons, they don't seem to need humanoid remains,just a pile of bones,easy to come by.
I have no direct experience with 5e necromancers, but a divine soul would have access to both spell lists,and sorcery points,for what it's worth.
Death clerics twinning ability ,armor and weapons seem better if you want to get personal with attacking.
Necro wizards make more undead,and make them more powerful.

I like clerics, wizards and sorcerers are too squishy, or I just suck at playing them.
Maybe play a small race and ride a medium Skeleton, I'm not sure how that would work out.
An armored palaquin is also classy.
Maybe play a forge domain Cleric to make custom equipment easily.
I'm rather fond of skeletons in burkas, with appropriate padding.

Even with no special boosts, Animate Dead makes you a necromancer, so go hog wild .
Consider the Help action, and remember your minions will all act as one.
That being the case, it might be better for you to Help them ,rather than them helping you.
Oversized weapons do double damage at Disadvantage, your Help Action cancels that out.

So a Cleric would be more along the lines of a Death Knight, while a Wizard is more of a pure Necromancer?

[Mortis_Elrod]

So a Cleric would be more along the lines of a Death Knight, while a Wizard is more of a pure Necromancer?

eh, the cleric can certainly still buff the minions with spells but if you're looking at Death Cleric its more about dealing necrotic damage than raising a few skellys.

Wizard will buff your boys with its 6th level ability and you could probably throw some spells too. But its definitely squishier than ther cleric without investment.

Either way determine how you want to play. There's alot to be done with necromancy and its better to pick a few go to options and strategies. Also figure out how you want to play without minions as you're certain to have none at some point. either they'll all get ruined in combat at once or overtime or you'll have to get rid of them for story reasons, theres a high chance that you'll lose all of your buddies, at least for a short while.

[Tekrow]

eh, the cleric can certainly still buff the minions with spells but if you're looking at Death Cleric its more about dealing necrotic damage than raising a few skellys.

Wizard will buff your boys with its 6th level ability and you could probably throw some spells too. But its definitely squishier than ther cleric without investment.

Either way determine how you want to play. There's alot to be done with necromancy and its better to pick a few go to options and strategies. Also figure out how you want to play without minions as you're certain to have none at some point. either they'll all get ruined in combat at once or overtime or you'll have to get rid of them for story reasons, theres a high chance that you'll lose all of your buddies, at least for a short while.

I think I would like something similiar to a Death Knight from Warcraft, for example. Like a melee combatant that uses magic and undead minions as support. Doesn't necessarily has to be a tank or a heavy armor fighter, I would be fine with a medium or even light fighter.

[Theodoxus]

Closest to a Death Knight and keeping it out of the Homebrew realm would be a Paladin/Wizard multiclass. Probably Paladin (Oathbreaker) 7 / Wizard (Necromancer) 13. You could also go Paladin 11/Wizard 9 if you want to be more melee than magic.

Death Cleric could work in place of Wizard, but I think Necromancer has better synergy.

Depending on party make up, you might be able to start and stay with Paladin until 7th level (if there's a caster willing to use Animate Dead, which your 7th level ability would bolster). If not, I'd suggest going to 5 or 6 if you're looking for more melee, or 3 if not, and then switching to Wizard until 5th for your own Animate Dead, then going back to Paladin for either 7th or 11th (whichever you feel is best) and close out Wizard.

[Millface]

I'm not sure how there's even debate on this one. The "Necromancer" Wizard is the only one that truly does what a Necromancer can do. An Oathbreaker is level 9 before it gets ONE zombie. Yes, the Dread-Lord/Deathknight aesthetic is amazing, but it comes online LATE.

Lets assume if you're making a necro that you're in a world or setting that seventeen paladins won't come destroy you the second you go anywhere with undead minions. Because that's the biggest hurdle by FAR.

The Wizard Necro can cast both third level slots of animate dead at 5th level and reup them every day to control 8 zombies at level 5. With inspiring leader and 14 cha those zombies also have 6 more real hitpoints and 8 more temporary hitpoints, total 14. Their damage is also buffed by +3.

By 9th level you have 7 total slots you can dedicate to undead. You get 2 x 3 for your 3rd level slots, 4x3 for your 4th level slots, and 6x1 for your 5th level slot. When you re-up each animate dead cast reasserts control over 4 total undead, so with 7 slots you can maintain 28 Skeletons here. Each of which gets, at this level, 20 extra hit points.

Each one has about a 30% chance to hit and hits for 1d6+6. Or 9. That's 252 damage *.30 = 75.6 DPR. At level 9 that's kind of insane.

A 20th level Wizard can control a maximum of 60 skeletons that all have 55 hit points and deal 1d6+8 damage on hit.

Nothing outnecromances the Necromancer, my dudes. But good luck finding the space in dungeons for these guys. The best thing you can probably do is use your 8th and 9th level slots to stuff them all in a demiplane and open the door to it when you really need it.

Really... Necromancer is cool on paper but I've never played in a campaign where any of that is remotely viable. Any other version has so few minions that you'd be better off just playing something else, wouldn't you?

[Tekrow]

I'm not sure how there's even debate on this one. The "Necromancer" Wizard is the only one that truly does what a Necromancer can do. An Oathbreaker is level 9 before it gets ONE zombie. Yes, the Dread-Lord/Deathknight aesthetic is amazing, but it comes online LATE.

Lets assume if you're making a necro that you're in a world or setting that seventeen paladins won't come destroy you the second you go anywhere with undead minions. Because that's the biggest hurdle by FAR.

The Wizard Necro can cast both third level slots of animate dead at 5th level and reup them every day to control 8 zombies at level 5. With inspiring leader and 14 cha those zombies also have 6 more real hitpoints and 8 more temporary hitpoints, total 14. Their damage is also buffed by +3.

By 9th level you have 7 total slots you can dedicate to undead. You get 2 x 3 for your 3rd level slots, 4x3 for your 4th level slots, and 6x1 for your 5th level slot. When you re-up each animate dead cast reasserts control over 4 total undead, so with 7 slots you can maintain 28 Skeletons here. Each of which gets, at this level, 20 extra hit points.

Each one has about a 30% chance to hit and hits for 1d6+6. Or 9. That's 252 damage *.30 = 75.6 DPR. At level 9 that's kind of insane.

A 20th level Wizard can control a maximum of 60 skeletons that all have 55 hit points and deal 1d6+8 damage on hit.

Nothing outnecromances the Necromancer, my dudes. But good luck finding the space in dungeons for these guys. The best thing you can probably do is use your 8th and 9th level slots to stuff them all in a demiplane and open the door to it when you really need it.

Really... Necromancer is cool on paper but I've never played in a campaign where any of that is remotely viable. Any other version has so few minions that you'd be better off just playing something else, wouldn't you?

You make valid points. Isn't there any build that instead focus on fewer minions but stronger? And could for example, the Wizard Necro or Death Cleric be made in gish? Or would that be too MAD?

[Millface]

You make valid points. Isn't there any build that instead focus on fewer minions but stronger? And could for example, the Wizard Necro or Death Cleric be made in gish? Or would that be too MAD?
Your best angle would probably be to take one level of Hexblade, then Lore Bard to 6, believe it or not, because the Bard can take animate dead at level 6 with magical secrets and mains CHA, so it's not MAD, wouldn't totally suck leveling up to animate dead, and multiclasses well into Oathbreaker. You don't get extra attack this way until level 12.

Short answer: No, a gish necromancer doesn't really work. None of the better gish classes get animate dead. If warlock got it at 5 it would work, but they don't, and no matter how you look at it to do this you need to wait until level 12 to summon undead or wait until 12 to get your extra attack. There's no real way to get both at a reasonable level.

What you could do is play Necro Wizard and just, you know, not use every single slot on animate dead. Create 6 skeletons, arm them with bows, use the rest of your slots for damage and utility and let them pepper your enemies with 6x1d6+Prof+2 per round. Which, at a +4 to hit vs. AC 16 at level 5 would give you 19.2 DPR from just skeletons, which is a good baseline. (GWM Berserker Barbarians in rage at 5 do something like 33 DPR). Just using firebolt you'd be at 25.2 which is respectable.

Keep this strat until 11 when you can create undead, and you get 3 ghouls to go along with them. A good config would be level 13 having 8 skeletons, 3 ghouls, and 2 wights using 2 3rd level slots, one 6th and one 7th. You still have all 1st and 2nd level slots (lots of scorching ray) one 3rd level slot and all 4th and 5th for additional damage.

Last note: Your DM and other players will absolutely hate you if you run this. 13 minions takes so much time at the table.