Gish action economy w/ arcane focus

[BaconAwesome]

I'm thinking about a sword and board Lev 1 Paladin + Lev 1 hexblade. (No feats yet).

Hex is a bonus spell with V S M components. Theoretically, my dude can use his bonus to cast hex, then draw his sword as his free interaction, then use his action to attack with the sword.

Except that he needs to be handling his arcane focus or a component. Do I need to use an interaction to draw the focus and another to stow it? If so, then it's much harder to cast and fight, unless I'm dropping stuff instead of stowing it. (Which i guess might work at level 1/1, when I only have one slot anyway, but is going to get old during the next several levels before warcaster).

[DarkKnightJin]

Handling a focus or other material component can be done with the same hand as the somatic component. Meaning your Paladin/Hexblade could indeed cast Hex, then grab their sword as part of their attack/free interaction and make their attack(s) for the turn.

[BaconAwesome]

Thanks - do you think I also need an interaction to stow my arcane focus if I don't want to drop it?

If so, then even warcaster wouldn't solve this "juggling problem" without a house rule, unless I'm missing something.

[Bahamut7]

I have always been a fan of making a Gish's weapon their Focus. So in this case I would make their hexblade the focus and you could even have the gish do the somatic components with the sword as a series of quick slashes to create the symbols in air. Sounds cheesy but think of later power ranger series with samurai based ones.

This would be thematic and solve the mechanical problem. In the case of non-combat situations, have the character merely grab the hilt of their sword and do the gestures with their hands.

[DarkKnightJin]

Thanks - do you think I also need an interaction to stow my arcane focus if I don't want to drop it?

If so, then even warcaster wouldn't solve this "juggling problem" without a house rule, unless I'm missing something.

The interaction to take AND stow the focus/material is included in the Somatic part.
Sadly, this means by RAW you still need a free hand to cast a spell with a Material component, even with War Caster.
At least, my current and somewhat sleepy interpretation of it.
Though I am fairly sure most DMs will 'handwave' that particular bit of casting.
A gish is supposed to be skilled at weaving magic and martial prowess together in combat, after all.
Doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to drop their weapon every time they want to cast a spell.

Some might argue that is why you go with a 2-handed weapon, so you have a free hand to cast you spells and handle the Material component of any spells you might be wanting to cast.

[Blood of Gaea]

One way to do it RAW is to use a shield for your Paladin focus and a quarterstaff as your Warlock focus. You can then proceed to beat people over the head with the staff.

[Biggstick]

I have always been a fan of making a Gish's weapon their Focus. So in this case I would make their hexblade the focus and you could even have the gish do the somatic components with the sword as a series of quick slashes to create the symbols in air. Sounds cheesy but think of later power ranger series with samurai based ones.

This would be thematic and solve the mechanical problem. In the case of non-combat situations, have the character merely grab the hilt of their sword and do the gestures with their hands.

That's one of the reasons a Warlock takes the Xanathar's Invocation called Improved Pact Weapon. One third of it's features include the fact that your Pact Weapon now acts as a spellcasting focus.

In addition to that, there is a common magic item in Xanathar's that one can attach to a weapon that turns it into an arcane spellcasting focus. It requires attunement, but it's something WOTC has accounted for now with additional content. Your fix negates these important choices and further buffs gishes compared to other classes.


The interaction to take AND stow the focus/material is included in the Somatic part.
Sadly, this means by RAW you still need a free hand to cast a spell with a Material component, even with War Caster.
At least, my current and somewhat sleepy interpretation of it.
Though I am fairly sure most DMs will 'handwave' that particular bit of casting.
A gish is supposed to be skilled at weaving magic and martial prowess together in combat, after all.
Doesn't make a whole lot of sense for them to drop their weapon every time they want to cast a spell.

I'm almost certain the interaction to take AND stow your focus/material component is not included in the Somatic part. You can either Take or Stow or focus/material component with your Interact with Object Action, not both.


Some might argue that is why you go with a 2-handed weapon, so you have a free hand to cast you spells and handle the Material component of any spells you might be wanting to cast.

That's exactly why you go with a 2-handed weapon.


One way to do it RAW is to use a shield for your Paladin focus and a quarterstaff as your Warlock focus. You can then proceed to beat people over the head with the staff.

This is the way to do it. The only issue one would have here is if you need to cast a spell with only Verbal/Somatic spell components. It's not too hard to use your Action economy though to stow the Quarterstaff for a turn to successfully cast the spell (meaning you're really only giving up a single round in which you're not taking opportunity attacks with your weapon).

[BaconAwesome]

Logically, there's no reason you couldn't set a crystal into the pommel of a sword, but negative implication from the listed ability to emblazon a holy symbol on a shield suggests you can't.

Edited to add - sage advice says you can use a component pouch without an interaction, so if my DM signs on, I guess I can always use that instead of a focus.


Last question: is reaching into the pouch part of the action used to cast the spell?

Jeremy Crawford @JeremyECrawford
Yes.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/06/16/is-the-intent-behind-a-component-pouch-that-you-reach-into/

[Biggstick]

Logically, there's no reason you couldn't set a crystal into the pommel of a sword, but negative implication from the listed ability to emblazon a holy symbol on a shield suggests you can't.

Edited to add - sage advice says you can use a component pouch without an interaction, so if my DM signs on, I guess I can always use that instead of a focus.


https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/06/16/is-the-intent-behind-a-component-pouch-that-you-reach-into/

There is a common magic item from Xanathar's called Ruby of the War Mage on page 138 that does exactly what you've described. It causes the weapon to now require attunement to use it as a spell focus, but it's an easy enough thing to actually do.

You're right, reaching into the component pouch to grab the material for an arcane caster is the same as a divine caster reaching for their holy symbol. We're not talking about just that part of spellcasting though. We're talking about having a shield in one hand and a sword (or some other one handed weapon) in the other (or any other variation of this SnB gish situation). You don't have the action economy to have an empty hand, reach into a component pouch, cast the spell, put the spell component away, and unsheathe a sword (and possibly attack depending on if your spell cast is a Bonus Action spell) all on one turn. The exception to this is if you're one of the divine casters who are allowed to put their divine focus on their shields, you have a class feature that allows your weapon to function as your arcane focus (Sword Bards, Warlocks with the Improved Pact Weapon Invocation, etc), or you have a magic item that specifies as such.

[Blood of Gaea]

This is the way to do it. The only issue one would have here is if you need to cast a spell with only Verbal/Somatic spell components. It's not too hard to use your Action economy though to stow the Quarterstaff for a turn to successfully cast the spell (meaning you're really only giving up a single round in which you're not taking opportunity attacks with your weapon).
You can just drop the staff and use your object interaction to pick it up after you finish the spell.

[Mortis_Elrod]

This is why you take warcaster as a feat to avoid all of this.

[Tanarii]

If you have a free hand, you handle any material components (or foci) needed as part of it. Per the PHB rules on material components. That section doesn't specify any additional item interactions are required, so none are.

So yes, if your sword starts sheathed, and your sword hand is free, you can can a spell with an M component, including substituting a focus hanging from your belt (for example), then use your item interaction to draw the sword.

[CantigThimble]

If you are a sword and board fighter, use a material component pouch. Casting a spell requires one free hand.

If you have your sword and shield out and want to cast a spell, then use your free item interaction to stow your sword, cast the spell using your free hand and end the turn.

Next turn, draw your sword with your free item interaction and take the attack action.

This is fully functional with two exceptions:
You cannot opportunity attack with your weapon during the intervening turn.
Reaction spells with somatic components, like shield, will be unavailable if your weapon is not stowed.

Using a 2-handed weapon, a quarterstaff focus/weapon or Warcaster get around these last two problems.

[JakOfAllTirades]

If you are a sword and board fighter, use a material component pouch. Casting a spell requires one free hand.

If you have your sword and shield out and want to cast a spell, then use your free item interaction to stow your sword, cast the spell using your free hand and end the turn.

Next turn, draw your sword with your free item interaction and take the attack action.

This is fully functional with two exceptions:
You cannot opportunity attack with your weapon during the intervening turn.
Reaction spells with somatic components, like shield, will be unavailable if your weapon is not stowed.

Using a 2-handed weapon, a quarterstaff focus/weapon or Warcaster get around these last two problems.

What about casting a bonus action spell (such as Hex) then using the attack action?

[Blood of Gaea]

What about casting a bonus action spell (such as Hex) then using the attack action?
Drop the sword, cast the spell, pick the sword up.

[Tanarii]

What about casting a bonus action spell (such as Hex) then using the attack action?
Cast spell, draw sword as object interaction, attack.

If you started with your sword out then you've made a tactical error. You need to put it away in the previous round if you want to cast a bonus action spell then attack on this round.

That's the price of being a warrior-caster. And also why my personal preference is the 2H weapon style for warrior casters. :smallamused:


Drop the sword, cast the spell, pick the sword up.
IMO the easiest way to stop these (totally RAW) shenanigans is to house-rule dropping something is an item interaction. Or just get some players who won't cheese.

[BaconAwesome]

I hadn't read far enough into XGtE to realize that the Ruby of the War Mage is a common item that allows use of a main weapon as an arcane focus. Assuming a high enough magic campaign that you can get one easily, that solves the problem for 100 gp or so. (Plus in a high magic campaign, most enemy arcane gishes should have one ...)