How much of a jerk would I be to give a new player a pregen, with the wrong race?

[Dragonkingofth]

So. . .back ground. My group was unsastifyed with the stater box pregens so i've been making a bunch for each class, I've made about 23 of them and so I've bene doing unusual stuff to keep my self engaged, bugbear bards, drow paladins, half elf barbarians and so on.

I then came up with the recent paladin pregen since somebody took the drow one and I try to keep one for each class, in this case it's a dex based Yuan-ti paladin.

Now, backstory for this guy is basically that story of the two Russian spys who had kids in the US as part of there cover, Yuan-ti parents are spys, they have a kid to sell the disguise, does not work, they get found out and get executed, kid goes on the street a bit, then get's picked up by a paladin, but he does not actually know his own species.

But here is the evil idea I had: what if I did that to the player? Remember: the sheet is likely going to a new player, one who has little experience with D&D and Yuan-Ti, and even a veteran might not notice unless they tallied up the ability scores that something was up, so what if the sheet listed race as 'human', and the written backstory made no mention of Yuan-Ti, and we just set it up so both player and character don't know there own origin, but the DM does.

Would this be a BLEEP move? I like it because A: it's funny, and B: it sets up this incredible personal story moment where both player and character goes 'no way I'm a descendant of this vast empire of snake people! I had no idea!". But is this also a jerk thing to do? To just drop this on a player's lap "surprise! here is this secret about your character not even YOU knew about."

So, thoughts? Is this a good idea, or should I just forget about the concept.

[leogobsin]

I probably wouldn't. The problem is, Yuan-ti have racial traits other than ability scores, it absolutely would be possible for them to realize something's up without tallying up ability scores. Like, what happens when an enemy casts a spell at them and they should have advantage on the save from Yuan-ti's Magic Resistance? Either you don't actually let the player benefit from their racial traits, or you tell them "Oh actually you've got advantage on that save." "Oh yeah, from what?" "Uhhhhh... don't worry about it".

It's a neat idea, but I just don't see how you can make it work and it's not the kind of thing you should spring on a new player. It just introduces too many complications for it to be worth it.

[Lvl 2 Expert]

Either you don't actually let the player benefit from their racial traits, or you tell them "Oh actually you've got advantage on that save."

That second one would be the way to go. For common things tell them "you don't know why, but you've always been better at than others" (after which a savvy player will ask if there's anything else he's always been better at), for less common things it's something they now notice for the first time.

I think the biggest thing here to keep in mind is the individual player. Some people would love it, some people would hate it. Many role players would fall closer to that second category. Then again, many role players would create their own characters specifically because they want it to be completely their own with no weird surprises. Since your players don't, they might be up for it. But in my opinion this really is your call, I don't know your players.

[Unoriginal]

It would be a massive jerk move.


The ONLY way this would be ok if is you asked the player something like "do you want your characters to have major secrets in their bloodline unknown both of them and you? Because I had an idea and I would find it fun", and only do it if they agree.

[Kalashak]

I'm not sure there's much of a point to this. You run the risk of frustrating a player by pulling the rug out from under them, and considering they're a first time player I doubt the final reveal will have as much impact as you're imagining it will. To you, the person who wrote the story and is anticipating the moment, this will be a really cool moment. To the player, who has no idea about any of this, the best case reaction is going to be 'oh...cool'.
Unless this player is someone you know very well and you know will react positively AND they're a phenomenal improv actor, I'd pass on this idea.

[Berenger]

I would very much resent such an surprise and likely dump the character (and maybe the game) immediately.

If you take the player aside before the game starts, describe your idea in broad strokes and the player is a) explicitly okay with shenanigans concerning his characters race and upbringing and b) aware that "No thanks, I'd like a regular human." is a valid answer, it's a fine concept, though.

[Knaight]

Conceptually I have no issue with this - if a pregen is in use for more than just mechanics, and understood to be in use for those reasons this sort of thing can work just fine. I would have some trepidation for doing this for campaign play; generally the shorter the game the more experimental you can get away with and this could get really old in something like a 1-20 campaign.

Beyond that the mechanics also don't really support this too well.

[Dragonkingofth]

Ok, general answer is no, thanks, guess I got a bit too clever for my own good there. Thanks for the advice.

[Incorrect]

" I have an idea for a character for you. It has a plot twist concerning its strange bloodline, but its going to be a surprise for you to discover ingame. Alternatively I have another, more straight forward, character. Which would you like more?"

I feel like something like this would be absolutely fine.

[Unoriginal]

" I have an idea for a character for you. It has a plot twist concerning its strange bloodline, but its going to be a surprise for you to discover ingame. Alternatively I have another, more straight forward, character. Which would you like more?"

I feel like something like this would be absolutely fine.

This would be ok, yeah.

Don't spring this on the person without warning, but maybe they like some mystery.

[redwizard007]

" I have an idea for a character for you. It has a plot twist concerning its strange bloodline, but its going to be a surprise for you to discover ingame. Alternatively I have another, more straight forward, character. Which would you like more?"

I feel like something like this would be absolutely fine.

Seconding (thirding?) this.

It is an awesome move, but one that needs player buy in to come off well.

[rbstr]

IMO if players are having you generate characters for them nearly anything is fair game as you're fair about how you implement it: Don't gimp the character or otherwise ruin how the character is played ect. This is your character concept...if a player really cares about controlling the background they're work with your to generate one of their own.

I would have a vague warning that "these characters may have mysterious plot connections that they are unaware of and they'll have to discover that on their journey."

[Pex]

Personal opinion pregens always suck whether by Publisher or DM. For a one shot at a gaming convention I make do, but I almost always ask if I can make changes for personal taste. I would agree personal bias is a factor in that I am an unapologetic optimizer, so whoever made the character will make choices I never would have.

For a convention non-Organized Game you pretty much have to use a pregen. Players using their own character is possible but often there's a clash between styles. The PC is too powerful or too weak for the game. For a campaign I want to make my own. The DM can have his restrictions as he needs. If I didn't accept them I wouldn't play, so since I'm playing I abide by them but I want my own character with my own choices. The PC is the only thing about the game I get to control. I should play what I want, not want the DM wants.

[pdegan2814]

So. . .back ground. My group was unsastifyed with the stater box pregens so i've been making a bunch for each class, I've made about 23 of them and so I've bene doing unusual stuff to keep my self engaged, bugbear bards, drow paladins, half elf barbarians and so on.

I then came up with the recent paladin pregen since somebody took the drow one and I try to keep one for each class, in this case it's a dex based Yuan-ti paladin.

Now, backstory for this guy is basically that story of the two Russian spys who had kids in the US as part of there cover, Yuan-ti parents are spys, they have a kid to sell the disguise, does not work, they get found out and get executed, kid goes on the street a bit, then get's picked up by a paladin, but he does not actually know his own species.

But here is the evil idea I had: what if I did that to the player? Remember: the sheet is likely going to a new player, one who has little experience with D&D and Yuan-Ti, and even a veteran might not notice unless they tallied up the ability scores that something was up, so what if the sheet listed race as 'human', and the written backstory made no mention of Yuan-Ti, and we just set it up so both player and character don't know there own origin, but the DM does.

Would this be a BLEEP move? I like it because A: it's funny, and B: it sets up this incredible personal story moment where both player and character goes 'no way I'm a descendant of this vast empire of snake people! I had no idea!". But is this also a jerk thing to do? To just drop this on a player's lap "surprise! here is this secret about your character not even YOU knew about."

So, thoughts? Is this a good idea, or should I just forget about the concept.

For a new player? Definitely a jerk move.

[CantigThimble]

"How do you feel about playing an orphan with the possibility that learning about your heritage would be a plot point down the road?"

Don't give away the whole game but let them know what they would be getting into. Personally I'm always up for my characters being screwed with like this, but it looks like I'm probably in the minority.

[Laserlight]

For something like this, the build up / anticipation is what makes the reveal powerful. If you're the only one who knows about it, no one except you gets that anticipation, consequently will not appreciate the reveal. It sounds good in theory, it works in a novel because the writer can show the reader stuff that the character doesn't know, but it generally doesn't work in an RPG.

If you had an experienced player, I'd say offer him the choice; maybe even tell him "Your character doesn't know this, but you're really..." so he can RP it (Others "Ted, were you just eating mice?" Ted "Uh...no. It was rice. Rice is what it was. Definitely not mice. I mean, who eats mice? Aside from snakesssss...uh, I mean, ha ha!"). But I wouldn't do that with a new player.

[Requilac]

Personally I think the most interesting way to do this without it collapsing on you is telling the player in secret that he is really a Yuan-Ti, but not telling the rest of the party. That way, you can still set up a dramatic reveal and plot point which will effect the group, but the player won’t be upset with you for it. Of course, this only is dramatic at all if the rest of the group is invested in the campaign and the secret/Yaun-Ti’s story arc. But then again, if no one is invested in the storyline, than it really wouldn’t matter much at all if you went through with this plan.

As a player, I wouldn’t mind having this twist pulled on my character at all and would take great enjoyment from it; but I know I am in the minority.

Let us be honest here though; I don’t think the player will really be that mad at you if you do this. If s/he really cared that much about her/his character, s/he would have made it her/himself. If your players would rather not take the time to detail their characters themselves and then have you make it, I doubt they would react much of this reveal at all aside from thinking “cool, I can cast Poison Spray, Animal Friendship and Suggestion without spell slots.”

[Matrix_Walker]

The player would need far more prep than is indicated here... Their whole roleplaying style would have to be adjusted.

You could get away with telling them they did not know their race, but they would discover their reptilian features on their own.

You might also run into trouble with someone who was not prepared to play a creature devoid of emotion.

[Louro]

I love such things. It shows you the DM had some trickies prepared to run in the long term.



As a player, I wouldn’t mind having this twist pulled on my character at all and would take great enjoyment from it; but I know I am in the minority.
I'm quite surprised with this. I actually played a game with a Yuan-ti. The player discovered it and kept it secret as long as he possibly could. We were not veterans at all but used to play weird races and cuasi-evil characters. Everyone got excited because of the implications of Mr. Someone (we were relatively important) being a yuan ti. Everyone readjusting their secondary objectives.

[BurgerBeast]

Here’s a suggestion. I’m not sure how good it is, so use your judgment.

Since you’re making so many pre-gens anyway, why not have a “surprise me” bag of pregens that include such twists, for players so inclined. Most players will pick a pregen in the usual way from the usual assortment. The surprise bag would be a “buyer beware” bag and you get what you get (or if you wanted, you could give limited control by having grab bags for martials and casters, or by class, or by race).

The reason it would have to be “you get what you get” is because otherwise, one player might end up playing another player’s throw-away.

This way, if the player is f@#king crybaby about it, they will always have the knowledge that it is partly their fault. They could’ve just picked a normal character.

[Kadesh]

Why not just let the player creafe their own charavter so they can be invested in their own character, whether or not its a boring aragon expy.

[MagneticKitty]

As a player I would be ok with it if it was hinted. If they understand what meta gaming is (so the character himself doesn't know this part), write into their past that there is "some ominous fact about their birth that they don't know about"

And hints they know in character such as "small animals are nervous around them" and "their eyes reflect light in the dark as their gaze somehow pierces through it" (like an animals eyes) if they know the character is not quite human and they take it, then it's fine I think, they know they're getting that surprise later. Gives their character some motives.

Then make sure you have yuan ti enemies at some point so they are familiar with them. Maybe make one or two who are reformable or non evil. Or make there be innocent yuan ti infants. Later after they know what they are they can be thankful they didn't turn out evil like the majority. Or maybe they adventure to be strong enough to resurect a parent.