Rogue Assassin viability?

[Drazhar]

I have never played an Assassin Rogue and it's always been because it's level 3 ability always seemed "situational" and therefore lackluster (Arcane Trickster and Swashbuckler being my favorites). However, I am in a posistion with a character where taking a dip into Rogue just to pick up the Assassin ability would be useful. I am curious, is it as useless as I believe? How do you use it effectively?

[Derpaligtr]

I have never played an Assassin Rogue and it's always been because it's level 3 ability always seemed "situational" and therefore lackluster (Arcane Trickster and Swashbuckler being my favorites). However, I am in a posistion with a character where taking a dip into Rogue just to pick up the Assassin ability would be useful. I am curious, is it as useless as I believe? How do you use it effectively?

Step 1: Ask the DM if their game can handle it or if they will be ok with you doing this.

Step 2: Ask the rest of the party if this is ok.

Step 3: ???

Step 4: Take a different subclass.

==

I don't hate assassin but it seems to work best in a 1 player game and going to route of a videogame like metal gear solid where you sneaking around and killing things by surprise IS the point of the game.

[Metamorph]

It is pretty good if you are able to choose where and when you fight. An invisibility spell on the rogue may help here.

[ProsecutorGodot]

If you've got a high enough Dex where your initiative bonus is decent you're often going to have advantage on your attacks for the first round of combat. More chances to crit are always good, I definitely wouldn't call that bad. The second part however is a bit trickier because surprise is often ruled incorrectly at a table, it might never come up due to how the mechanic functions.

I think we need a bit more information to make an informed judgement on this, what is it about this character that makes you think the level 3 feature of Assassin is such a strong ability for it?

[Vekon]

If your party is decent at setting up ambushes or catching enemies off guard with stealth and subterfuge, you'll probably find success. Recommend taking the Alert feat.

[Exocist]

I played with someone who did that.

Ask your DM how often they'll rule for surprise before doing so, because surprise surprise (pun intended) some DMs will almost never declare the enemies are surprised. In particular, the guy I played with never got the critical feature of the assassin off (in the entire campaign, the enemies were surprised once and at that moment he rolled badly on initiative).

For a 3 dip, pretty much any other rogue archetype that isn't Inquisitive or Arcane Trickster (Even then AT can still be useful if none of your other classes are casters) will give you a lot more than Assassin. Assassin only gets worse from there.

[CTurbo]

It works best as a Sharpshooting Archer. It's REALLY easy to get surprise rounds from a distance with arrows. Best to be combined with 3 levels of Gloom Stalker for obvious reasons. The Alert feat is essential.

From what I've seen, an Assassin with Alert can at least utilize it's "advantage on enemies that have not yet acted" part of it's features in most combats. The surprise round auto crits are not as easy to pull off without attacking from range.

I still think Assassin is a GOOD subclass overall even though the level 9 and 13 features are kinda lacking IMO. I'd say it's great for 3-7 level dips for any character that want's to be a stealthy assassin type character like Gloom Stalker or Shadow Monk.

[EvilAnagram]

As Vekon said, it's party dependent. I personally like to plan elaborate ambushes that go terribly awry, so it's fun when there's an assassin to join in.

[MaxWilson]

In a solo or social/RP-oriented campaign, the level 9 and 13 abilities could be a lot of fun, especially on a warlock multiclass with at-will Disguise Self, so that potentially ANY or ALL characters in the story could secretly be the assassin in (undetectable) disguise...

...but in a typical combat-oriented campaign where the PCs tend to remain within earshot of each other at all times so they can start fights, not so much.

[Drazhar]

If you've got a high enough Dex where your initiative bonus is decent you're often going to have advantage on your attacks for the first round of combat. More chances to crit are always good, I definitely wouldn't call that bad. The second part however is a bit trickier because surprise is often ruled incorrectly at a table, it might never come up due to how the mechanic functions.

I think we need a bit more information to make an informed judgement on this, what is it about this character that makes you think the level 3 feature of Assassin is such a strong ability for it?

So the build is shaping up to be:

Human V. Sharpshooter
STR 9 DEX 18 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 16 CHA 10

Levels 1-5 Gloom Stalker Ranger
Notes: Darkvision (on a human!), Archery +2, Hunter’s Mark, Extra Attack, and Initiative increase to +7. ASI used to increase Dex +2

Levels 6-9 Battlemaster Fighter
Notes: Action Surge, Defense: +1 AC, and PRECISION ATTACK (for those pesky close calls). ASI used to pick up Alert for

UNKNOWN PART OF BUILD
Levels 10-20 Assassin Rogue
Notes: Gonna go Rogue from here to get that extra damage from Sneak Attack. And since it seems I am going to try and be first in combat, I am thinking that Assassin will work here, but I will probably heed that warnings and ask my DM how the rules will be interpreted.

Also, Items of note that I have acquired:
Longbow +2
Oathbow
Bracers or Archery

[ProsecutorGodot]

Yea I think Assassin would be pretty solid, Gloom Stalker + Alert is going to put you at a +12 initiative, giving you a decent chance of going first. Basically everything that CTurbo said above applies, since you seem to fit into that exact scenario where you have the range and initiative to make use of the level 3 feature of Assassin very well.

[CTurbo]

Yea I think Assassin would be pretty solid, Gloom Stalker + Alert is going to put you at a +12 initiative, giving you a decent chance of going first. Basically everything that CTurbo said above applies, since you seem to fit into that exact scenario where you have the range and initiative to make use of the level 3 feature of Assassin very well.


Yep you pretty much have a best case scenario for Assassin going, and some really strong magic items too.

With an Action surge, you'll be making 6 attacks on your first turn and likely all with advantage. When you're able to pull off a surprise round, you'll be devastating.

[CTurbo]

So the build is shaping up to be:

Human V. Sharpshooter
STR 9 DEX 18 CON 12 INT 10 WIS 16 CHA 10

Levels 1-5 Gloom Stalker Ranger
Notes: Darkvision (on a human!), Archery +2, Hunter’s Mark, Extra Attack, and Initiative increase to +7. ASI used to increase Dex +2

Levels 6-9 Battlemaster Fighter
Notes: Action Surge, Defense: +1 AC, and PRECISION ATTACK (for those pesky close calls). ASI used to pick up Alert for

UNKNOWN PART OF BUILD
Levels 10-20 Assassin Rogue
Notes: Gonna go Rogue from here to get that extra damage from Sneak Attack. And since it seems I am going to try and be first in combat, I am thinking that Assassin will work here, but I will probably heed that warnings and ask my DM how the rules will be interpreted.

Also, Items of note that I have acquired:
Longbow +2
Oathbow
Bracers or Archery


As far as your last 11 levels go, you could go Assassin 11 for 6d6 sneak dice and Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and Reliable Talent.

Or Assassin 3, then Fighter 8 which would get you that third attack at level 19 as well as 5 superiority dice which will be d10s by that point. You miss out on Uncanny Dodge and Evasion though and are limited to 2d6 sneak damage.

Another fun idea would be to go Assassin 5, Shadow Monk 6 to be the ultimate shadow stealth character. Teleporting in shadows would greatly help your surprise round capabilities. You could also bump Wis and go unarmored here, an suddenly you'd be a forced in melee too.

Also, a single War Cleric dip could be great for you. You get some healing and utility, some great cantrips like Guidance, and best of all, a bonus attack that you can use up to your Wis mod per short rest. You're novas would immediately be better.

Another option is to go Assassin 5, and then 6 more Ranger levels. You'd get Wis save proficiency and Stalker's Fury which lets you basically redo a miss every turn. You also get the Ranger's Hide in Plain Sight which is great for you, and Land's Stride which isn't terrible not to mention more spell slots and 3rd level spells like Fear, Nondetection, Flame Arrows, Lightning Arrow etc...

[Drazhar]

As far as your last 11 levels go, you could go Assassin 11 for 6d6 sneak dice and Uncanny Dodge, Evasion, and Reliable Talent.

Or Assassin 3, then Fighter 8 which would get you that third attack at level 19 as well as 5 superiority dice which will be d10s by that point. You miss out on Uncanny Dodge and Evasion though and are limited to 2d6 sneak damage.

Yeah that is my thought process, I will see how the character plays out.

For me it's all about the "sprint", I want a character that would go "turbo" in the beginning and then be a consistent source of damage afterward. I picked up a couple of utility spells to add onto the build (Goodberry, Healing Spirit, and Pass w/out a Trace) and Commanding Strike for one of the Battlemaster's options to get use of another Rogue character at the table.