My brother thinks Rouge 17 Monk 3 is one of the best multi class options.

[No1ofIntrst]

He chooses assassin as his rouge archetype, but our DM does not do too much city based role playing where its 7th and 12 ( I think) level ability are pretty much garbage. for monk he is way of the drunken master. He takes 3 feats (dual wielding, GWF???, and lucky) and is tabaxi race, and has max DEX and decent scores in CON INT and WIS, with STR and CHA its dump stats. Against dragons and other big enemies he plans on sneaking up, and assassinating with all of the bonuses that come with this. vs hordes he plans on spamming flurry of blows with the ability from drunken master to move from guy to guy. He uses short swords for dual wielding.





I can see three main problems with this.
1- for large enemies he relies on sneaking up, then he has to hit, then the enemy has to fail the CON save, and then he can deal great damage. this is slightly offset by lucky, but still is not the best
2- for hordes he forgets bonus actions are not unlimited, so he thinks he can attack with 2 short swords, and the use 3X flurry of blows
3- his monk powers are totally pointless, as at this level none of the ability deal enough damage

[Mad Max]

I'm not sure what your question is, but congratulations! You're right, he does not have enough levels in Monk for it to be worth it.

[Angelalex242]

Shadow Monk/Assassins are best done with a 14/6 split.

Whether you go 14 monk or 14 assassin is up to you.

[Dalebert]

Not to mention how painful it is to be that close to Empty Body at 18th, one of the best abilities in the game.

Counting on surprise is probably a bad idea. I find DMs are extremely stingy with letting PCs get it. Even with a lenient DM, you'll typically have to go to a lot of effort. You'll usually either need to go ahead of the party which puts you at risk of being solo while ambushed yourself or you'll have to make sure your entire party is stealthy. And keep in mind, you still have to discover the enemy. A high perception is crucial to a successful stealthy scout. They could be stealthy as well and if they're hiding in one place while the assassin or party is moving, they're very likely to still discover you first because eventually you'll have to walk out into plane sight while they remain hidden.

[Randomthom]

I came here just to say... it's ROGUE. NOT ROUGE.

Rogue as in Rogue One.
Not Rouge as in Moulin Rouge.

[Willie the Duck]

I came here just to say... it's ROGUE. NOT ROUGE.

Rogue as in Rogue One.
Not Rouge as in Moulin Rouge.

A true statement. And thanks for being courteous/non-mean-spirited about it. :smallsmile:
We have a lot of non-native-English-speakers, as well as plenty of young gamers, so I get how this keeps happening. That said, I am still constantly amazed.

[samcifer]

I came here just to say... it's ROGUE. NOT ROUGE.

Rogue as in Rogue One.
Not Rouge as in Moulin Rouge.

*looks up from makeup table* WHAT?!?

[Wisefool]

The ruse of the Rouge. Gets them every time.

[No1ofIntrst]

I was just asking if anyone else thought it was subpar, and thank you for correcting me.

[Willie the Duck]

I was just asking if anyone else thought it was subpar

Looking at your original post, subpar seems to be the lesser issue to them not understanding the limits of bonus actions. However, you are right that the late-level dipping into monk doesn't seem to give them much.

[Exocist]

I came here just to say... it's ROGUE. NOT ROUGE.

Rogue as in Rogue One.
Not Rouge as in Moulin Rouge.

A primer to the Rouge! A solid foundation for any build. This versatile kit is capable of fulfilling many roles - the concealer, the booster or the plumper, the Rouge can highlight your party's strengths while glossing over their weaknesses, the Rogue can glue together any composition.

Now I know you're thinking "I Will mascara you for these terrible puns", but this humour just needs a bit of time to set-in before it makes you blush with laughter.

[ProsecutorGodot]

Make sure to have him look in depth for the surprise rules, as it stands his plan to deal with large enemies falls flat as soon as the party engages the fight. As mentioned above his misunderstanding of the action economy is a larger issue than the multiclassing path.

There's certainly nothing wrong with the split, even if it is a weaker option. Just make sure he understands the limitations because Rogues (especially Assassin Rogues) have a lot of them.

[No1ofIntrst]

Make sure to have him look in depth for the surprise rules, as it stands his plan to deal with large enemies falls flat as soon as the party engages the fight. As mentioned above his misunderstanding of the action economy is a larger issue than the multiclassing path.

There's certainly nothing wrong with the split, even if it is a weaker option. Just make sure he understands the limitations because Rogues (especially Assassin Rogues) have a lot of them.

I have done both but as he is my little brother and is annoying (as little brothers are) he refuses to admit he is wrong.

[Willie the Duck]

I have done both but as he is my little brother and is annoying (as little brothers are) he refuses to admit he is wrong.

We can't fix that. However, if he's actively violating the game rules, it becomes an issue (depending on DM).