Immovable Rod is accidentally truly immovable?

[Albions_Angel]

Hi all,

So I was reading the immovable rod. As stated in the SRD, when the button is pushed, it gets fixed in position, and then you can let go and it will remain there. Also stated, you can make a ladder with them. It then says only 2 are needed for that, clearly implying you place one, reach up and place the second, release the first and put it higher again, etc.

Heres the thing though. Go look at the SRD. At no point does it say that pressing the button a second time releases the rod. In fact, there is NO WAY to release it. Now, you would have to be horrible to rule using it this way, but this seems like a major error. Maybe its already in one of the dysfunctional rules threads, but I only just noticed it.

To make matters worse, Pathfinder didnt fix it. This cant be how it was intended to be used, given the reference to ladders, right?

[noob]

Hi all,

So I was reading the immovable rod. As stated in the SRD, when the button is pushed, it gets fixed in position, and then you can let go and it will remain there. Also stated, you can make a ladder with them. It then says only 2 are needed for that, clearly implying you place one, reach up and place the second, release the first and put it higher again, etc.

Heres the thing though. Go look at the SRD. At no point does it say that pressing the button a second time releases the rod. In fact, there is NO WAY to release it. Now, you would have to be horrible to rule using it this way, but this seems like a major error. Maybe its already in one of the dysfunctional rules threads, but I only just noticed it.

To make matters worse, Pathfinder didnt fix it. This cant be how it was intended to be used, given the reference to ladders, right?
You just have to beat the str check to push the lower one higher.
You do not need to deactivate them for climbing with them.

[Palanan]

When I saw the thread title, I thought this would be about the user clinging to the immovable rod for dear life as the planet rotated a thousand miles an hour beneath him, inexorably pulling away to leave the rod hanging in interplanetary space. Ah well.

:smalltongue:

[Albions_Angel]

That does sound like a fantastic idea, but I guess "Immovable Rod" just sounds better than "Rod of the Rest Frame of the Wielder".

[Celestia]

When I saw the thread title, I thought this would be about the user clinging to the immovable rod for dear life as the planet rotated a thousand miles an hour beneath him, inexorably pulling away to leave the rod hanging in interplanetary space. Ah well.

:smalltongue:
Isn't the D&D world flat and stationary, anyways? Or maybe I'm misremembering...

[Elricaltovilla]

When I saw the thread title, I thought this would be about the user clinging to the immovable rod for dear life as the planet rotated a thousand miles an hour beneath him, inexorably pulling away to leave the rod hanging in interplanetary space. Ah well.

:smalltongue:


Isn't the D&D world flat and stationary, anyways? Or maybe I'm misremembering...

Depends on the setting. Golarion is an actual planet in a strangely earth-like solar system. Aebir-Toril is two planets fused into one (I think, I'm a bit fuzzy on the details). Points of Light doesn't go into much detail, but most planes are flat, finite celestial bodies floating in the astral sea.

[Psyren]

Even if you were to rule that way, you can just suppress it with a targeted dispel or an AMF, then move it wherever else you need it to be once the magic is turned off.

Beyond that, yeah, "immovable" should be taken with a grain of salt - it clearly does include things like the planet's reference frame.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Well, you could also scoop it up into a handy haversack.

I wonder how that would function...

[Elricaltovilla]

Now I'm curious how much damage an immovable rod would do if it impacted the earth due to its immovability. It's not indestructible, so it'd probably burn up in the atmosphere, but the sun revolves around the galactic center at 828,000 km/hr, and the earth revolves around the sun at 107,000 km/h and I really only got through high school physics...

[Jay R]

No, pressing the button again should release it. You're right that the rules don't say so, but it's clear from the ladder example that it's supposed to be a user-controlled effect.

I've always wanted to push somebody up against a wall, and then shove the immovable rod in his mouth as hard as possible, button first. He is now stuck there until the wall comes down.

[JustIgnoreMe]

Old fashioned buttons are either pushed or unpushed. Click on, click off.

The reading OP suggests would also apply to the Rod of Lordly Might, which could never go back to mace-form if it was ever used as a sword, axe or spear. Button 5 retracts the climbing poll, but doesn't state it returns it to mace-form.

[Pleh]

I always wanted to see a Monk with an Immovable Quarterstaff.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I always wanted to see a Monk with an Immovable Quarterstaff.You'll just have to settle for some gunchucks. (https://youtu.be/WLZq4hvs_30?t=63)

[noob]

I always wanted to see a Monk with an Immovable Quarterstaff.

I see no problems.
Use the ultimate glue(or whatever it was named) to glue together the buttons of two immovable rods in such a way it have the same shape as a quarterstaff then push them together so that both buttons triggers.
Now you have a quarterstaff you will never be able to move and arguably it is impossible by raw to move it even if you succeed the strength check to move a single immovable rod unless you start using universal solvent.

[inuyasha]

I always wanted to see a Monk with an Immovable Quarterstaff.

I actually do have a somewhat obscure 3rd party book with a prestige class dedicated to fighting with Immovable Rods, allowing for crazy flips and maneuvers through the air if you get to a certain level.

[Knaight]

When I saw the thread title, I thought this would be about the user clinging to the immovable rod for dear life as the planet rotated a thousand miles an hour beneath him, inexorably pulling away to leave the rod hanging in interplanetary space. Ah well.

As I've pointed out numerous times - there is no privileged reference frame anywhere, and any arbitrary frame can be used for the immobile rod to go basically anywhere. Meanwhile if you're going to pick a specific reference frame the local planetary surface is a pretty good one.

[Pleh]

I actually do have a somewhat obscure 3rd party book with a prestige class dedicated to fighting with Immovable Rods, allowing for crazy flips and maneuvers through the air if you get to a certain level.

That's certainly more what I was thinking. Sort of a martial artist who specializes in kicking off walls to attack from angles most people don't expect and have a hard time countering, then bring an immovable staff so you have a wall to kick off any time you want.

I could see an awesome mechanic for a pole swing charge attack where you can effectively charge in place by swinging all the way around the staff to do a roundhouse kick (assuming there's room to maneuver). Movement provokes AoO, but you can tumble as you move normally.

Also, for sticking two rods together by their buttons, you don't need glue. Once they're holding each other's buttons depressed, you can't pull them apart to turn them off, even if there was no glue. And universal solvent wouldn't matter.

[noob]

That's certainly more what I was thinking. Sort of a martial artist who specializes in kicking off walls to attack from angles most people don't expect and have a hard time countering, then bring an immovable staff so you have a wall to kick off any time you want.

I could see an awesome mechanic for a pole swing charge attack where you can effectively charge in place by swinging all the way around the staff to do a roundhouse kick (assuming there's room to maneuver). Movement provokes AoO, but you can tumble as you move normally.

Also, for sticking two rods together by their buttons, you don't need glue. Once they're holding each other's buttons depressed, you can't pull them apart to turn them off, even if there was no glue. And universal solvent wouldn't matter.

Except you want glue so that if someone makes the str check to move one(which is mentioned as possible and not needing desactivation) he can not move the one he used his str on due to how it is glued to an immovable rod.

[Nifft]

When I saw the thread title, I thought this would be about the user clinging to the immovable rod for dear life as the planet rotated a thousand miles an hour beneath him, inexorably pulling away to leave the rod hanging in interplanetary space. Ah well.

:smalltongue:

You're only counting the planet's rotational velocity (1k mph), not the planet's motion around the sun, nor the solar system's motion around the galactic core, nor the galaxy's motion relative to the privileged stationary frame of reference which would be what genuine immobility created.


With sufficiently advanced pedantry (i.e. "there is no privileged frame of reference") you circle back to normality and the rod becomes immobile relative to its nearest legitimate frame of reference, which would be the nearest observer, which would already account for all those motion types.

Three cheers for sufficiently advanced pedantry.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

You're only counting the planet's rotational velocity (1k mph), not the planet's motion around the sun, nor the solar system's motion around the galactic core, nor the galaxy's motion relative to the privileged stationary frame of reference which would be what genuine immobility created.


With sufficiently advanced pedantry (i.e. "there is no privileged frame of reference") you circle back to normality and the rod becomes immobile relative to its nearest legitimate frame of reference, which would be the nearest observer, which would already account for all those motion types.

Three cheers for sufficiently advanced pedantry.So, what you're saying is, I really am the center of the universe.

I'm glad someone is smart enough to see it.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

Well, you could also scoop it up into a handy haversack.

I wonder how that would function...

I'm always looking to give low level characters things more interesting than +1's. An immovable rod with a broken on/off switch seems perfect for this. Bonus points because the party has to think of using the haversack to "loot" it in the first place.

[Jay R]

When I saw the thread title, I thought this would be about the user clinging to the immovable rod for dear life as the planet rotated a thousand miles an hour beneath him, inexorably pulling away to leave the rod hanging in interplanetary space. Ah well.

:smalltongue:

Of course, this applies to every spell, as well. Area effects would go whizzing away, all bolts or rays would blast pretty much westward no matter how they were aimed, Hold Person spells would make the target skip away over the horizon, etc.

But if these spells work the way we expect them to, then the Immovable Rod will also seem stationary to us.

[Nifft]

I'm always looking to give low level characters things more interesting than +1's. An immovable rod with a broken on/off switch seems perfect for this. Bonus points because the party has to think of using the haversack to "loot" it in the first place.

That's awesome.

Snarf'd.

[MaxiDuRaritry]

I'm always looking to give low level characters things more interesting than +1's. An immovable rod with a broken on/off switch seems perfect for this. Bonus points because the party has to think of using the haversack to "loot" it in the first place.Gotta make sure they've got a haversack, remember.

[Celestia]

Of course, this applies to every spell, as well. Area effects would go whizzing away, all bolts or rays would blast pretty much westward no matter how they were aimed, Hold Person spells would make the target skip away over the horizon, etc.

But if these spells work the way we expect them to, then the Immovable Rod will also seem stationary to us.
I dunno about that. Hold Person seems like a much more powerful spell if it launches people into space.

[noob]

I dunno about that. Hold Person seems like a much more powerful spell if it launches people into space.

Or annihilate them in a crater they make by going in the earth at high speed.(only in some places)

[Ringadon]

Now I want to create a magic item shop that sells stuff like this.

One time use Immovable rod
Apparatus of the Crab but the levers stick for a couple rounds
Bag of Endless Caltrop (you can only pull out one at a time)
Slightly Leaky Decanter of Endless water

etc.

Just a fun thought.

[Resileaf]

When I saw the thread title, I thought this would be about the user clinging to the immovable rod for dear life as the planet rotated a thousand miles an hour beneath him, inexorably pulling away to leave the rod hanging in interplanetary space. Ah well.

:smalltongue:

Now I am definitely thinking of a setting in which there is the story of a mage who anchored his rod to the universe instead of the planet, and when he activated the rod, he was either flung into space, or pulverized by the sheer force of the rod pulling him apart because of the sudden stop.

[Psyren]

Well, you could also scoop it up into a handy haversack.

I wonder how that would function...

It's interesting because you're changing its location without actually moving it, much like casting Plane Shift on it would. And once it's in the extraplanar space, you can "move" it wherever you want, without actually moving it, because what you're truly moving is the interface (the opening of the bag) between its fixed point on another plane and a variable point on yours.

If that causes too much headache though, you can as mentioned simply suppress it with a dispel before stuffing it in the bag, then dispel it again before taking it out.

[Jay R]

I dunno about that. Hold Person seems like a much more powerful spell if it launches people into space.

Perhaps. But the major point is this: that's not what those spells do, so that's not what an Immovable Rod should do.