PDA

View Full Version : Ultimate Magus Spellhoarding Loredrake



cartejos
2018-08-22, 07:36 AM
For the purpose of this post, assume DWK's qualify for Loredrake and that Spellhoarding will shift the 3 (Loredrake - 2... Greater Rite - 1) "free" sorcerer levels for Wizard Levels.

How would you build it?
In my eyes:
The class itself loses 3 "lower level" caster levels.
I think I would go for Sorcerer 2/Wizard 3/Ultimate Magus 10
So at level 15 that would leave me with 13th level Wizard Casting and 10th level Sorcerer casting.
Continuing to advance just Wizard Casting will result in 9th level wizard spells and 5th level sorcerer spells.
With a metamagic reducer (Such as Easy Metamagic on Persist) you can persist 3, or more, spells per day by sacrificing sorcerer spell slots. You can use the metamagic reduction ability 8 times per day. To be able to persist 8 times per day with Sorcerer level 10 casting you'd need either more MM Reducers, or a 44 Charisma. Or some other way to get extra spell slots.
Two Metamagic Reducers, such as Practical and Easy Metamagic, along with a Ring of Wizardry IV or Legacy Item with the Wizardry IV ability would persist everything you ever wanted.

I know I focus on persist in the post, but I think it is one of the most interesting metamagic abilities.

What else can you do with Ultimate Magus? What are the nastiest tricks you can pull with a Spellhoarding Loredrake (1 flaw)? Is the answer to the best thing you can do with a Spellhoarding Loredrake still just be a standard Wizard/Incantatrix/Archamage? Or is there something that would be more powerful if it just didn't lose those 3 caster levels??

Cosi
2018-08-22, 07:48 AM
Practiced Spellcaster mitigates some of the lost caster levels from Ultimate Magus (though it might not in your case, not sure how the skill ranks and minimum level to enter would fall out for this build).

Beguiler is better than Sorcerer for Wizard/Ultimate Magus. You key off INT instead of CHA, and for the amount of casting you'll get Beguiler is better. Especially since you can give it a couple of your favorite Wizard spells.

Grabbing (Trickster) Spellthief + Master Spellthief gets you some pretty huge caster levels. IIRC it's something like 30th by 10th level. Combine with Arcane Disciple (Good) for a holy word that no-save kills pretty much any enemy.

umbergod
2018-08-22, 08:56 AM
Practiced Spellcaster mitigates some of the lost caster levels from Ultimate Magus (though it might not in your case, not sure how the skill ranks and minimum level to enter would fall out for this build).

Beguiler is better than Sorcerer for Wizard/Ultimate Magus. You key off INT instead of CHA, and for the amount of casting you'll get Beguiler is better. Especially since you can give it a couple of your favorite Wizard spells.

Grabbing (Trickster) Spellthief + Master Spellthief gets you some pretty huge caster levels. IIRC it's something like 30th by 10th level. Combine with Arcane Disciple (Good) for a holy word that no-save kills pretty much any enemy.

Need sorcerer in order for spellhoarding loredrake to serve any purpose for this build tho

Cosi
2018-08-22, 09:01 AM
Need sorcerer in order for spellhoarding loredrake to serve any purpose for this build tho

I don't think so. If you swap the virtual bonus levels, you'd add them to your Wizard casting so you wouldn't need any Sorcerer levels. I actually think taking something that swaps away your Sorcerer casting then trying to progress as a Sorcerer is kinda skevy, though I don't know the exact wordings off the top of my head.

umbergod
2018-08-22, 09:04 AM
I don't think so. If you swap the virtual bonus levels, you'd add them to your Wizard casting so you wouldn't need any Sorcerer levels. I actually think taking something that swaps away your Sorcerer casting then trying to progress as a Sorcerer is kinda skevy, though I don't know the exact wordings off the top of my head.

Without any sorcerer levels tho, ypu cant have them converted into effective wizard levels. I see a spellhoarding loredrake ultimate magus as essentially a cha wiz mixed with traditional int wiz

cartejos
2018-08-22, 10:38 AM
I believe it is that you need a Sorcerer Level to have Loredrake activate and then Spellhoarding changes them into Wizard levels after that

Edit: Plus the Greater Rite of Draconic Passage requires you to have a sorcerer level