How do I make a good Paladin

[No1ofIntrst]

For our campaign we have 2 rogue/monks (going mainly rogue assassin, which in our campaign has low usefulness) and I am playing a Vhuman Paladin, probably Oath Of Ancients as from the paladin guides I have seen it is the best. Should I pick up warlock levels to gain eldritch blast and the invocations to allow me to cast as well (16STR and 16CHA at lvl2 with the Inspireing leader feat) Is it better (if I plan on mostly soloing the adventure do to other players playing poor builds) to pick up some warlock levels at level 6+7 or just go on to be max paladin for the capstone and ASI

[BaconAwesome]

You can't go wrong. The paladin goodies are so good that going straight paladin gets you great stuff earlier, and the synergy with hexblade means that a dip is good too.

IMHO, the biggest plus on a hexblade dip is that you can fight using charisma, which lets you skip your Str upgrades. Elditch blast and a short rest spell slot are a nice bonus.

The biggest plus of straight paladin is you get your paladin features (ASI, extra attack, your auras, and enhanced smite) earlier, and you have more flexibility to specialize in two handed combat, two weapon, or just to use both a sword and a lance once you get a mount.

PS - all the types of paladin are good, but ancients is probably best at tanking and support.

[No1ofIntrst]

Is the hexblade the 2nd level pact of blade and shililililhingah (IDK)? its might be decent but if it takes more than 2 lvs of dip then I don't really want to use it because aura improvements are really good, particularly with rogues that will be running around everywhere

[BaconAwesome]

Hexblade is a patron like Fiend or Fey. The reason people like it for paladins is that at level 1 you get pact weapon, which lets you pick one weapon per day and use Cha as your attack stat for to hit and damage. That means that after two ASIs, you will have maxed both your attack and spell casting stat .

The downside is that unless you take warlock 3, a pact weapon can't have the two handed property, and you can only have one per day, so you're pretty much committed to sword and board and to defensive or dueling as a fighting style.

[Millface]

I'd say that the biggest thing to think about when making a "good" paladin is to not put too much weight on the shiny Divine Smite feature.

It looks boss, it feels boss, but it's not always, or even usually, the best way to get the most mileage out of your Paladin.

I do agree with at least the level 1 hexblade dip, depending on your Oath of choice and how far you need to take paladin to get it.

I'm building one now and I haven't decided exactly how I want to build him, but the character idea is that he's essentially Torm's hitman. If something is evil enough to hit the radar I kill it. So it's optimized for support most of the time, but when the real fight comes he throws down the gauntlet and gets nasty. Hexblade's Curse + Vow of Enmity, fish for a crit, and unload Eldritch Smite AND Divine Smite on the same crit. He's also a Scourge Aasimar, so it's really built around "cooldowns" so to speak. He plays back, tanks for the party, and offers support/heals but always saves one Warlock slot and one of his highest paladin slots for something suitably evil to unload it on.

Probably my favorite thing about the Paladin/Hexblade is that Hex and Bless are two of the best spells out there and both are only level 1 spells. The important note is that resource management on a Pally is the hardest part. Two players with the same build can have wildly different results depending on how and when they expend resources throughout the adventuring day.

[Willie the Duck]

Is the hexblade the 2nd level pact of blade and shililililhingah (IDK)? its might be decent but if it takes more than 2 lvs of dip then I don't really want to use it because aura improvements are really good, particularly with rogues that will be running around everywhere

I guess you could call hexblade a shillelagh-like effect. It lets you use your 'casting stat' instead of your Strength or Dexterity for to-hit and damage with (some, depending on your pact) weapons. I could see going either way for this character. Given a 16 Str already, a 2-3 level dip into hexblade might delay boosting your Cha long enough that it really doesn't help that much.

Now what you are to do about ranged attack is probably more important. What's your Dex? What's the DM's opinion on thrown weapons? Will s/he let you throw multiple javelins after 5th level, despite the by-the-book rules on drawing weapons? Are the two monk-rogues capable of holding up the party in terms of ranged combat?

All-in-all, so long as you adapt to the group and playstyle you are presented with, there are few wrong ways to play a paladin. Given that you are going to be 'soloing' as you put it, I would conserve your spells (using them as spells most of the time, and not smites), and work on being the front line that keeps your party strong (and on their feet, what with the Inspiring Leader feat).

[CTurbo]

You want to make a good Paladin?

No need to multiclass at all. Just start level 1 Paladin and prioritize Str and Cha. You can easily start 16 Str, 14 Con, and 16 Cha. Bump Str at level 4 and Cha at level 8. You dont even need any fancy feats. Paladins in 5e are already probably the strongest core class in the game. I personally would not even consider multiclassing until level 12 but then again I wouldn't multiclass at all.

If vhuman, I like Heavy Armor Mastery feat at level 1. Res(Con) is also a good starting feat. Inspiring Leader is a great feat to pick up later but I wouldn't until Str and Cha are at least to 18 if not 20 Str. Sentinel is also a strong option. But again, I wouldn't take any feat aside from the level 1 freebie until Str and Cha are at least 18. Or 20 Str and 16 Cha if you really want to push the melee over core class features.

[No1ofIntrst]

I can throw more than one javelin but each extra throw uses 10 ft of move
I am sorry for the use of solo, I have 1 more character (and a few once in a while people who play) but the other character is quite weak. Just wanted to make this clear.
the range is because we wont have any spell casters in the blast-em with fireball sense, and our rogue is an assassin planning on dual wielding(???) That would be my main reason of picking up 2 levels in warlock. I am currently thinking of picking up warlock at 6th 7th 8th or 9th level, depending on if the auras are going to be helpful.

[CTurbo]

Aura of Protection is possibly the best feature in the game. The Ancients level 7 aura is possibly the best level 7 aura. They are more than helpful.

[No1ofIntrst]

I know, but the 7th lvl aura requires spells to be cast on you, which can be good vs clerics to a dragon god, but against orcs it’s not going to help much. The lvl 6 aura is great if you are going to get frightened or get basted at by fire, but if an archer is attacking you it is less effective

[CTurbo]

Aura of Protection works for ALL saves of every kind.

Level 7 is for all damage from any spell.

[Aaron Underhand]

I can throw more than one javelin but each extra throw uses 10 ft of move



Not in the 5E I play....

[Snowbluff]

Personally level 6 or 7 is is my sweet spot.

Some warlock is good for Hexblade (for Shield and Cha stuff) and maybe even Agonizing Blast.

I like Bard (Swords if you like more tankiness, Whispers for more Damage).

Sorcerer is nice for nova.

[Whit]

My view. Paladin is a great class it’s solid.
View on subclass is personal. Ancient yiu can go sword shield and have tank melee and tank spell. Most best swords for paladin are long swords unless dm can change weapon.

You go damage you can get vengeance. Haste spell advantage attack’s. Yiu get crazy.
Great weapon best but you pick what’s good fir yiu.
As for dipping into lock. It slows paladin lvl like people say. Hexblade great. But at lvl 1 no greatweapon but u get char bonus option over str. so go s&b U get hex curse which adds prof damage and 19-20 crit yiu get range attack spell also on charisma. Eb is for flying creatures as yiur main attack is melee. Now if u dip to lvl 2 u get 2 invocation. An add cha damage to yr range attack. Or get something else like see in magical darkness
Then improved pact weapon fir two handed weapons and range weapons which are magical +1 hit damage but nothing more. So do u need eb?
However if u go this route yiu need to consider early s&b or gw. But now yr behind by 2 lvls. For whatever u pick so ancient magic resistance is at 9 and so forth. Unless u wait until after 7th to dip.

And don’t forget a lot of yr spells is bonus action and concentration types
So think what to use
U also get the extra spells to switch and recover faster. But don’t quote me as it may have changed.

[CTurbo]

Honestly, I really hate how everybody thinks they have to multiclass their Paladins with Hexblade these days. It's like THE thing to do now.

Yes I am aware of the synergy, but still, Paladins are super strong already

[igor140]

I just skimmed through most of the thread, but I have both a Hexblade and a Paladin, in different campaigns. Each is CRAZY powerful, but in slightly different ways.

Hexblade, imo, does more damage. Their nova (Eldritch Smite) does more damage and earlier than any of the Paladin options. They also have the HUGE advantage of technically only needing one stat: CHA. This means you're free to dump STR (which I did for my Hexblade) and pump DEX/ CON instead (after CHA, of course). If you're considering a dip for Hexblade, I would recommend doing it early, so that your Paladin won't ever need STR at all.

Paladins have better armor, better hit die, and MUCH better casting ability. You don't really notice it as a significant problem until ~lvl 6 or 7, but Warlocks' spell slots are a serious problem. Unless you can convince the party (and DM) to do a short rest after every combat, you really can't rely on spells in battle... other than for burst damage, which is insanely powerful. Paladins, on the otherhand, get a reasonable number of spells, and a reasonable number of castings to use them. Lay On Hands is one of the best healing options in the game, if don't multiclass out of Paladin... and that doesn't count against your spells or spell slots at all. This means you could easily function as the party's primary healer (in fact, you would pretty much half to...). If you dipped warlock, you could go Celestial, which would give you healing options (arguably rivaling the Paladins, actually), but you would lose out on the Hexblade melee power.

tl;dr

Considering that it looks like you are both the party tank and the party healer, I would stick to straight Paladin. MAYBE consider dipping Sorcerer for Shield and some other Wizard spells, but bear in mind that your job will be to keep people alive, not to make people dead.

[Willie the Duck]

Honestly, I really hate how everybody thinks they have to multiclass their Paladins with Hexblade these days. It's like THE thing to do now.

Yes I am aware of the synergy, but still, Paladins are super strong already

Particularly if you only are looking for a one-level dip because you use one-handed weapons, it's tactically (Optimization-wise) exceedingly sensible. Throw in a strong ranged attack (something paladins usually lack) buy going in 2 levels, and it's not quite a no-brainer, but seriously hard to argue against.

To be clear, I agree. I hate that it is the case. I think WotC either 1) screwed up a bit, 2) expects DMs to police these things (something I guess I don't disagree with), or 3) simply is less concerned about what insanity one can create with multi-classing, since multi-classing is clearly listed as optional (again, hard to disagree). Given that warlocks, in general, are not overstrong, yet become so as dips for other classes (paladins of course, but also potentially sorcerers), it would have been nice for them to have included a little sidebar alongside the class mentioning how it could mess with the game if the DM okayed dipping with them.

That said, the paladin is strong enough to be considered one of the best classes in the game even without these shenanigans. So that's cool. It'd suck if it was, say, PHB beastmaster Ranger or Berserker that this happened with.

[No1ofIntrst]

I am also going to do this as I would be taking the archfey otherworldly patron, and as I am already a paladin of oath of ancients. I personally want the ranged part because no one else in my party can effective attack from range, and getting to melee is sometimes dangerous.

[Snowbluff]

Hexblade is general just better (TM), but I do agree that paladins tend to be very weak at range, so picking up warlock just for EB, Agonizing Blast, and maybe a third level for some second level slots on a short rest wouldn't be too bad.

[No1ofIntrst]

only problem with 3rd lvl is loss of aura improvements, as well as the slowed down paladin class upgrades

[BaconAwesome]

only problem with 3rd lvl is loss of aura improvements, as well as the slowed down paladin class upgrades

Agreed - the expanded aura is so good it could be a capstone.

[stoutstien]

Dump int and quote the tick as much as possible.

[Whit]

Honestly, I really hate how everybody thinks they have to multiclass their Paladins with Hexblade these days. It's like THE thing to do now.

Yes I am aware of the synergy, but still, Paladins are super strong already

Yeah like rogues with fighter 1 to get archery. And everyone going vhuman fir sharpshooter early

[Whit]

No matter what Pali yiu go with. One lvl of hexblade gives u the. Charisma attack damage over strength (but remember reduce speed with heavy armor not meeting str requirements). And it gives you hex curse. And a basic eb range attack.
If u go lvl 2 yiu add 2 invo. AB + cha to damage for yr eb range and either devil sight . But that’s about it. So is lvl 2 dip worth it? If u want that strong range I guess.

Yiur serious question is how to lvl.
1. Paladin must.
2. Hexblade to get charisma.
3-6(7) pala fir 2 attack’s aura protection or up to spell resistance fir ancient.
8> it depends. I hear both. Go hex to 10 or more as hex lvl 10 is (huge!). Or go Pali to get the spells that lock lax in.
Ancient is great defense.
Vengeance gives you the damage

[Snowbluff]

I wonder if it's better just to go with Medium armor, 8 Str and 14 Dex. This would give you more init and reflex saves at the cost of 1 AC.

[stoutstien]

Only problema with 8 str is jump distance and height (page 182) if u play on a grid 8 reduces your distance to one grid long jump and none with a standing jump.
This is dm dependent but 10 feet gaps are a lot more common than 8 feet gaps 😃

[Corran]

For our campaign we have 2 rogue/monks (going mainly rogue assassin, which in our campaign has low usefulness) and I am playing a Vhuman Paladin, probably Oath Of Ancients as from the paladin guides I have seen it is the best. Should I pick up warlock levels to gain eldritch blast and the invocations to allow me to cast as well (16STR and 16CHA at lvl2 with the Inspireing leader feat) Is it better (if I plan on mostly soloing the adventure do to other players playing poor builds) to pick up some warlock levels at level 6+7 or just go on to be max paladin for the capstone and ASI
Eh, if you have two other PC's specializing in assassination, the best thing you could do IMO, would be to play a dex based paladin. Wear a studded leather or a breastplate (depending on your dex mod) in order to avoid having disadvantage on stealth rolls. And if their characters have darkvision covered, then play a race granting you darkvision too.

If you do that, then multiclassing into hexblade (or into anything for that matter), starts seeming less appealing. Firstly, due to the 13 STR requirement. Secondly, because it is probably a good idea to keep your attack bonus tied to the same stat that affects initiative, dex saves and stealth, and plan on boosting it.

Medium armor master is not a great feat, but if your PC is the only thing standing between the enemies and your fragile allies, and given you want to be stealthy, then maybe.... MAYBE it might be a feat worth considering.

Maybe consider picking up an oath that would give you access to a crowd control-y CD (crown, conquest, oathbreaker), if you are not married to the ancients' fluff. That might help you protect your skirmishing fragile allies better, and it might boost your tanking a bit too.

[Whit]

Armor is huge. As it’s hard to get but U can buy scale quickly. That’s 14+2 dex +1 defense 17. And +2 initiative. Equal to chain mail heavy 16+1 defense =17. And no initiative bonus. Later on heavy armor wins out.
It’s all preference and where u want stats.

[Whit]

Jumping can be issue but u can always dump the 8 str to another stat. Depends on how u want to play. Personally I hate the 15,14,13,12,10,8. But also love it. I just hate a hero having an 8 and a player putting it in wisdom intelligence or charisma but role playing an above intelligence character. An 8 is below average person

[LeMooseImperium]

Just try it straight paladin, don't just go for a combo. It won't be as crazy OP, but it will be more fun to play. Take it from the person who once tried a Warlock/Fighter/Paladin/Rogue/Ranger.

[No1ofIntrst]

First off, I have already built and am 2nd lvl, and have an 8 in dexterity so that kind of build is bad, and our assassin never actually does anything assasiny...

[EvilAnagram]

I would just go straight paladin. If you do end up hitting 20, that capstone is beautiful.

[Whit]

When it comes to a dump stat your options are simple all come with minus to saves and skills and ability checks.
8 Strength. Minus to hit and damage melee weapons(except charisma based hex) Minus to movement in heavy armor.
8 Intelligence. in a paladins case nothing
8 wisdom minus to perception
8 dexterity minus to initiative. Not to armor just a reminder.
8 constitution mi us to hit points. Never do
8 charisma. Never do for paladin

For other classes it all depends. But usually int cha are first to go with str wis dec second and never con

[Arkhios]

shililililhingah (IDK)

Shillelagh.
Split into Shill-e-lagh if it helps.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/shillelagh

Not so hard.