Cohort selection

[OgresAreCute]

Greetings fellow humans.

I recently hit level 6 on my Wilder, and since we had an empty stronghold, I figured I'd get leadership. All the followers are now staffing an abandoned castle in the woods, but I'm not sure what to make with my cohort. The original plan was to make a half-ogre tripper to control some space, but apparently I only have access to small/medium humanoids. My impression is that the normal way to do things as a Wilder is to grab a psion or erudite cohort and "borrowing" their spells since you don't get very many yourself, but I'm not really super worried about this. I'll keep it in mind, but it doesn't speak to me.

Psionic Warrior is very thematically appropriate, but I find the class somewhat unappealing mechanically. We don't really have any skillful/trapfindy types, but I also don't really feel like this is necessary. An artificer might be kinda cool, I dunno. Please help me make up my mind.

TL;DR: I need to make a cohort and I'm indecisive.
Me: Level 6 Wilder
Cohort: Level 4 something

Edit: Forgot to mention, 3.5e. Most official sources are available, including dragon magazines (on a case by case basis). Tome of Battle is out, though.

[WhamBamSam]

I'm a fan of getting things that have Cohort LA with cohorts, as you otherwise don't get a chance to play them. One of my favorites is Blink Dog (or Beguiler Thrall of Juiblex with Assume Supernatural Ability or something) Shadow Pouncer. No ToB makes that particular idea a little less appealing, but you could still make it work, or just look around books for things with Cohort LA and see if anything looks good.

[CharonsHelper]

I'd get a support/utiliity class that can stick to the back and doesn't need much gear. Bard cohorts are always great.

[OgresAreCute]

I'm a fan of getting things that have Cohort LA with cohorts, as you otherwise don't get a chance to play them. One of my favorites is Blink Dog (or Beguiler Thrall of Juiblex with Assume Supernatural Ability or something) Shadow Pouncer. No ToB makes that particular idea a little less appealing, but you could still make it work, or just look around books for things with Cohort LA and see if anything looks good.

I can't really think of any (cohort) LA creatures that are ECL 4 or less (and that preferably aren't terrible with that LA)

[WhamBamSam]

I can't really think of any (cohort) LA creatures that are ECL 4 or less (and that preferably aren't terrible with that LA)Beguilers (Shining South) are LA+0 (Cohort) and pretty great, whether for Magical Beast Alter Self forms (as I alluded to above) or just as a solid rogue or caster type.

[OgresAreCute]

Beguilers (Shining South) are LA+0 (Cohort) and pretty great, whether for Magical Beast Alter Self forms (as I alluded to above) or just as a solid rogue or caster type.

They're pretty good, I suppose. I was mostly worried about what class(es) to pick, though.

[Falontani]

Human dungeoncrasher fighter. Take levels in stoneblessed. Learn goliath cool stuff. Take a barbarian level for mountain rage. War hulk. He retains intelligence until he rages. It's fun

[Nifft]

I can't really think of any (cohort) LA creatures that are ECL 4 or less (and that preferably aren't terrible with that LA)

Petal from MM3 (no RHD, LA +2, tiny flying Fey).

Quite decent stat boosts for LA +2.

[OgresAreCute]

Petal from MM3 (no RHD, LA +2, tiny flying Fey).

Quite decent stat boosts for LA +2.

Well, let's say I make a Petal. What class levels would I give it? Gotta be something support-y considering it's essentially 4 levels behind everyone else.

[PunBlake]

Well, let's say I make a Petal. What class levels would I give it? Gotta be something support-y considering it's essentially 4 levels behind everyone else.
With high Dex, high Cha, and the maneuverability that comes with 60' good fly speed, I see three options, plus one for laughs:
Wilder or psion/StP erudite (Int 15), for power leeching cheese
Bard, for general support
Sorceror, for buffs at later levels
Dragonfire Adept, for the silly image of a tiny fey breathing cones of fire everywhere. Tiny fey: "I wanna be a dragon! *tiny roar*!" (Warlock for similar effect, but less cute.)

Of these options, I'd probably choose bard.

[Particle_Man]

I would go with artificer and instruct the cohort to make cool stuff for you. If you have a home base the artificer does not even have to travel with you much.

[zlefin]

what's the composition of the rest of the party?
that tends to have a considerable effect on what would complement it, as well as on how simple a build to use. (with larger parties you wanna keep stuff fast n simple)

[OgresAreCute]

what's the composition of the rest of the party?
that tends to have a considerable effect on what would complement it, as well as on how simple a build to use. (with larger parties you wanna keep stuff fast n simple)

A wilder (me)
A monk
A duskblade
A transmutation specialist wizard/war weaver
A red dragon
A healbot cleric NPC who is only there to make sure the fighty guys don't kill themselves

First I wanted to make a psychic warrior smack build, but I don't want to overshadow our other unarmed guy (and monks aren't exactly hard to overshadow). Current idea is making a bard to buff all the melee dudes, even if it won't really help me that much.

[Nifft]

Dragonfire Adept, for the silly image of a tiny fey breathing cones of fire everywhere. Tiny fey: "I wanna be a dragon! *tiny roar*!"

Dragons are basically cats so this is a good fit.

DFA 2 with breaths of Fire (basic) + Cold effect, and the Entangling Exhalation feat, and the Endure Exposure invocation -- that little puck is going to be a solid support character even with almost no HP.

At ECL 5 / level 3, take the Draconic Aura feat.


First I wanted to make a psychic warrior smack build, but I don't want to overshadow our other unarmed guy (and monks aren't exactly hard to overshadow). Current idea is making a bard to buff all the melee dudes, even if it won't really help me that much.

Hmm. I had an NPC build for a Halfling PsyWar chain-tripper somewhere... the trick was that the Str + size penalties to weapon damage were more than compensated for by the Dex + size bonus to attack (via Weapon Finesse), and with two-handed power attack those attack bonuses turned into slightly more damage than a Human PsyWar would have gotten.

Regular chain-tripping with Expansion on a Medium PsyWar might be better, but you really want Dex for Combat Reflexes.

As an area controller, the chain-tripper would serve as a guard for your character, and won't necessarily overshadow -- enemies will try to get close to you, they'll get tripped, your party mates will attack the tripped enemies with bonuses because the enemies are prone, then the enemies will try to stand up and everyone will get an AoO on them. If one of your allies focuses on killing the tripped enemies one by one, even a Monk can grab some spotlight.


On the other hand, Bards are great.

[OgresAreCute]

Hmm. I had an NPC build for a Halfling PsyWar chain-tripper somewhere... the trick was that the Str + size penalties to weapon damage were more than compensated for by the Dex + size bonus to attack (via Weapon Finesse), and with two-handed power attack those attack bonuses turned into slightly more damage than a Human PsyWar would have gotten.

Regular chain-tripping with Expansion on a Medium PsyWar might be better, but you really want Dex for Combat Reflexes.

As an area controller, the chain-tripper would serve as a guard for your character, and won't necessarily overshadow -- enemies will try to get close to you, they'll get tripped, your party mates will attack the tripped enemies with bonuses because the enemies are prone, then the enemies will try to stand up and everyone will get an AoO on them. If one of your allies focuses on killing the tripped enemies one by one, even a Monk can grab some spotlight.


On the other hand, Bards are great.

I was going to make a tripper psywar but gave up on it for some reason I don't remember. Might have been because it ended up a little short on feats (we aren't using flaws for our current campaign).

[Nifft]

I was going to make a tripper psywar but gave up on it for some reason I don't remember. Might have been because it ended up a little short on feats (we aren't using flaws for our current campaign).

Human PsyWar 4 might go like...

Level 1
Feat - Combat Expertise
Human - Combat Reflexes
Bonus - Improved Trip

Level 2
Bonus - Weapon Finesse

Level 3
Feat - EWP: spiked chain

Level 4
...


Powers
L1 (x3) - Expansion, Conceal Thoughts, Vigor
L2 (x1) - Dimension Swap

[OgresAreCute]

Human PsyWar 4 might go like...

Level 1
Feat - Combat Expertise
Human - Combat Reflexes
Bonus - Improved Trip

Level 2
Bonus - Weapon Finesse

Level 3
Feat - EWP: spiked chain

Level 4
...


Powers
L1 (x3) - Expansion, Conceal Thoughts, Vigor
L2 (x1) - Dimension Swap

How low do you set STR when going for weapon finesse?

[Nifft]

How low do you set STR when going for weapon finesse?

At least 13 so you can get Power Attack later; 14 if possible because then you get +3 damage.

I think that a human with 3 Int will still get 2 skill points per level, so that's pretty safe to dump (you only need Autohypnosis and Concentration). Charisma is also an obvious dump stat.

What's your point-buy and/or roll stack?

[Falontani]

A wilder (me)
A monk
A duskblade
A transmutation specialist wizard/war weaver
A red dragon
A healbot cleric NPC who is only there to make sure the fighty guys don't kill themselves



Your going to think I'm crazy, and I might be.
Truenamer. A lot of things that the truenamer can do is difficult because of hd on enemies make high dcs. But if you read Zaq's guide to truenaming you can make a competent enough truenamer that can do things like: grant allies attacks or move actions, grant allies a bucketload of fast healing, save magical items from being destroyed, and so much more. Really take a look through the utterances, figure out if you think your cohort will consistently hit the dcs of characters 2 hd higher than it, then design. Persist utterance is +30 to the dc, but if you can hit that on a familiar (whose dc doesn't go up) you can give them a few cool abilities for 24 hours. A truenamer will never step on someone else' toes, and if able to hit the dcs, will be able to contribute.

Or do an artificer that is a t0 build your own class. They are always useful

[OgresAreCute]

At least 13 so you can get Power Attack later; 14 if possible because then you get +3 damage.

I think that a human with 3 Int will still get 2 skill points per level, so that's pretty safe to dump (you only need Autohypnosis and Concentration). Charisma is also an obvious dump stat.

What's your point-buy and/or roll stack?

Slammed out an array just now, got 18/17/17/15/13/12 (we use 5d6kh3).

STR: 15
DEX: 18
CON: 17
INT: 13
WIS: 17
CHA: 12

Something like that? Dunno if PP is more valuable than a +1 to damage/trip checks, never played a psywar before.


Your going to think I'm crazy, and I might be.
Truenamer. A lot of things that the truenamer can do is difficult because of hd on enemies make high dcs. But if you read Zaq's guide to truenaming you can make a competent enough truenamer that can do things like: grant allies attacks or move actions, grant allies a bucketload of fast healing, save magical items from being destroyed, and so much more. Really take a look through the utterances, figure out if you think your cohort will consistently hit the dcs of characters 2 hd higher than it, then design. Persist utterance is +30 to the dc, but if you can hit that on a familiar (whose dc doesn't go up) you can give them a few cool abilities for 24 hours. A truenamer will never step on someone else' toes, and if able to hit the dcs, will be able to contribute.

Or do an artificer that is a t0 build your own class. They are always useful

Not sure if my DM allows Truenamers, and I don't think I'm quite feeling up to learning a new subsystem in time for the session tomorrow :smalltongue:
Artificer is still tempting so they can make me some power stones, though they're cheap enough that I can just buy them.

[Nifft]

Slammed out an array just now, got 18/17/17/15/13/12 (we use 5d6kh3).

STR: 15
DEX: 18
CON: 17
INT: 13
WIS: 17
CHA: 12

Something like that? Dunno if PP is more valuable than a +1 to damage/trip checks, never played a psywar before. Damn that's a nice array.

Yeah, you're great with that.




Not sure if my DM allows Truenamers, and I don't think I'm quite feeling up to learning a new subsystem in time for the session tomorrow :smalltongue:
Artificer is still tempting so they can make me some power stones, though they're cheap enough that I can just buy them.

Artificer is a great addition to any party. Infusions are solid even without item-crafting, and item-crafting is awesome.