[3.5] Of Giants and Giant-kin

[Thurbane]

So, was playing the Assault of the Giants board game recently (great game, BTW), and it made a reference to "giant-kin".

This got me wondering: from memory, in 2E "true giants" (hill giants, storm giants etc.) were defined slightly differently to "giant-kin" (i.e. ettins, ogres etc.).

In 3.5 "true dragons" are defined differently that other creatures of the dragon type. Does 3.5 make any fluff or crunch distinctions between the "true giants", and other creatures of the giant type? I suspect if so, it's more of an FR thing than anything else?

Just idle curiosity really.

- Cheers, T.

[NontheistCleric]

Apart from the fact that some actually have 'Giant' in their name and others do not, there is no such distinction made in the rules.

[Thurbane]

Just as an aside, is this a full list of "true" giants?


Abyssal (?)
Bog
Cloud
Death
Dusk (?)
Eldritch
Fensir (?)
Firbolg (?)
Fire
Fog
Forest
Formorian (?)
Frost
Hill
Jungle
Mountain
Ocean
Phaerlin (?)
Sand
Stone
Storm
Sun
Totem (?)

[hamishspence]

A point is made in the Dusk Giant's description in Tome of Horror of their being "predatory cousins of true giants" and how they're almost as closely related to trolls as to regular giants.


Verbeegs were called "the least of the giants, but giants nonetheless" in the novels (Salvatore's The Crystal Shard - with the implication that ogres, also in Akar Kessel's forces, aren't that).

On the other hand, in 3.5 (Expedition to Castle Greyhawk, page 111) they are called out as a half-ogre variant, so their 2e description may not be applicable).

In the short story Twilight in the Realms of Infamy anthology, the theme seems to be that "giants" were descended from Othea and Annam, whereas "giant-kin" are descended from Othea and other deities, like Ulutiu.

Firbolgs, verbeegs, and fomorians (and possibly others?) were Ulutiu's.
Ogres (and possibly trolls?) were Vaprak's.

Ettins, titans, and various "X giant" races, were Annam's.

[Thurbane]

A point is made in the Dusk Giant's description in Tome of Horror of their being "predatory cousins of true giants" and how they're almost as closely related to trolls as to regular giants.


Verbeegs were called "the least of the giants, but giants nonetheless" in the novels (Salvatore's The Crystal Shard - with the implication that ogres, also in Akar Kessel's forces, aren't that).

On the other hand, in 3.5 (Expedition to Castle Greyhawk, page 111) they are called out as a half-ogre variant, so their 2e description may not be applicable).

In the short story Twilight in the Realms of Infamy anthology, the theme seems to be that "giants" were descended from Othea and Annam, whereas "giant-kin" are descended from Othea and other deities, like Ulutiu.

Firbolgs, verbeegs, and fomorians (and possibly others?) were Ulutiu's.
Ogres (and possibly trolls?) were Vaprak's.

Ettins, titans, and various "X giant" races, were Annam's.

Cool, that's all relevant info. Thank you! :smallsmile:

[hamishspence]

Also - Wood Giants from MM2 do not appear to have been included in the list (Jungle Giants are not the same thing, and are from Secrets of Xendrik.)

The ruler of the Wood Giants was in Twilight as one of the Sons of Annam.

EDIT: I see now that they are Forest Giants - it was only the Twilight short story that called them Wood Giants.



The Underdark splatbook has Maugs ("Hunched Giants"), which are degenerated storm giants that have changed through generations of living in the underdark.

Text in the Totem Giant description in Magic of Incarnum says they are "true giants". They seem very much like slightly improved hill giants - only a tiny bit larger, heavier, and tougher. I would speculate that they are a hill giant splinter group in the same way that maugs are a storm giant splinter group and phaerlin giants are a stone giant splinter group.