Friends Cantrip

[carrdrivesyou]

So it states in the spell description that after 1 minute, whoever you try to use this on realizes you've used magic to influence them and they become hostile towards you. It does NOT however state how long this hostility lasts. Is it permanent, or does it wear off and they return to normal at DM discretion?

[Throne12]

It really up to the DM. Think about how mad you would be if someone cast magic to influence you. How long would you be mad and hostile towards that person.

[MoiMagnus]

So it states in the spell description that after 1 minute, whoever you try to use this on realizes you've used magic to influence them and they become hostile towards you. It does NOT however state how long this hostility lasts. Is it permanent, or does it wear off and they return to normal at DM discretion?

Hostility is not magical (the spell stopped, so no longer has any effect).
If you've attacked someone with a sword, they become hostile toward you. Same with Friend.
What this sentence says is that the subject of Friend feels like he was actually aggressively attacked by the caster. But after the spell end, the target is now FREE from the spell, and can chose either to actually start a fight, just hate you for the remaining of their life, or forgive you if they obtain a compensation they judge fair.

[Vogie]

So it states in the spell description that after 1 minute, whoever you try to use this on realizes you've used magic to influence them and they become hostile towards you. It does NOT however state how long this hostility lasts. Is it permanent, or does it wear off and they return to normal at DM discretion?

It's basically like that part of the heist movie when the mark realizes they've been duped.

If it's a guard you bluffed into letting you past the blockade, they're going to be mad, but more focused on not losing their job.
If it's Terry Benedict, there's going to be people following you until a sequel is made.

[Ninja_Prawn]

If it's a guard you bluffed into letting you past the blockade, they're going to be mad, but more focused on not losing their job.
If it's Terry Benedict, there's going to be people following you until a sequel is made.

...and if it's a fey prince, prepare to be true polymorphed into a potted plant! :smallamused: Epic bantz, lol

[diplomancer]

they get mad at you, for sure; unless you are disguised as somebody else. In that case, they get mad at THEM :smallwink:

[Vogie]

...and if it's a fey prince, prepare to be true polymorphed into a potted plant! :smallamused:

https://res.cloudinary.com/teepublic/image/private/s--WH2tYnnP--/t_Preview/b_rgb:ffffff,c_limit,f_jpg,h_600,q_90,w_600/v1519707442/production/designs/2399771_0.jpg

[Segev]

It really up to the DM. Think about how mad you would be if someone cast magic to influence you. How long would you be mad and hostile towards that person.

The fun bit is that charm person indicates they know they were Charmed by you. But not that they become hostile. Friends insists they automatically become hostile. So DMs may wish to consider whether charm person is meant to have the same end reaction as friends, or a better one.

[Derpaligtr]

It really up to the DM. Think about how mad you would be if someone cast magic to influence you. How long would you be mad and hostile towards that person.

Plus, to cast the spell you got to go all silence of the lambs and put on rouge.

[MoiMagnus]

The fun bit is that charm person indicates they know they were Charmed by you. But not that they become hostile. Friends insists they automatically become hostile. So DMs may wish to consider whether charm person is meant to have the same end reaction as friends, or a better one.

I think that the same difference than between
- Someone enter into your room without your permission, and write "You are my friend :-)" on your personal diary.
- Someone slam the door of your room (without your permission to enter), and tags "YOU ARE MY FRIEND!!!!" on a full page of your personal diary.

The two are mostly the same, but the first one will probably just make you unhappy, while the second one could make you hostile.

[carrdrivesyou]

Thanks for the clarification and the lols! This clears things right up!
-Carr

[xroads]

...and if it's a fey prince, prepare to be true polymorphed into a potted plant! :smallamused: Epic bantz, lol

But a really pretty potted plant, since the fey prince is probably going to be rather impressed that you managed to charm him. :smallbiggrin:

BTW, kudos to Vogie for the Hitchhiker's reference.


they get mad at you, for sure; unless you are disguised as somebody else. In that case, they get mad at THEM :smallwink:

Nice. I've never even thought about this before. This has some possibilities.

[Segev]

Plus, to cast the spell you got to go all silence of the lambs and put on rouge.

Just borrow the rouge from the rogue.

[Derpaligtr]

Just borrow the rouge from the rogue.

Dual casting, the Rogue (Thief?) can use a reaction to provide material components for a spell?

Hmm I like the concept of that.

[Sigreid]

I think a fair comparison is how ticked you would be at someone upon discovering they slipped you a drug without your knowledge in order to talk you into something.

[sophontteks]

Its a rather dubious attempt to prevent friends from being used multiple times on the same target. Thats why they are hostile and not simply aware. You cast charm person, and they are aware and react to the situation intelligently, some will turn hostile, others may not. But with friends, its not really rational. They are hostile.

Consequently, this is a very powerful effect when combined with any form of disguise or shapeshifting. One that I doubt was intended. Friends is terrible at what its actually intended to do, but its great at making NPCs hate a target you are imitating.

[JackPhoenix]

Its a rather dubious attempt to prevent friends from being used multiple times on the same target. Thats why they are hostile and not simply aware. You cast charm person, and they are aware and react to the situation intelligently, some will turn hostile, others may not. But with friends, its not really rational. They are hostile.

Consequently, this is a very powerful effect when combined with any form of disguise or shapeshifting. One that I doubt was intended. Friends is terrible at what its actually intended to do, but its great at making NPCs hate a target you are imitating.

Of course, you could argue that the residual magic of the spell causes the target to be hostile towards *you*, not towards whoever you've disguised yourself as...

[Segev]

A good fix would be to have friends not "automatically" make them hostile, just makes them aware that magic was used...and they react appropriately. It also can keep it's "doesn't work on hostile targets" clause, so anybody who goes hostile (i.e. most people, given how DMs run NPCs) is immune.

Charm person now runs with a modification of NOT leaving the victim aware they were magically influenced.

This would also necessitate revisiting the Enchanter's class feature, but making a spell only useful to one subclass is bad design anyway. It robs the Enchanter of a real power in order to patch a spell. Maybe replace their ability that is obsoleted by this change with one that allows them to force anybody who notices them casting a spell that inflicts the Charmed condition to make an Intelligence save or fail to recognize that he cast a spell at all.

[sophontteks]

Of course, you could argue that the residual magic of the spell causes the target to be hostile towards *you*, not towards whoever you've disguised yourself as...
It'd sure be a tough sell.

[Sinon]

It'd sure be a tough sell.

I agree: that would mean that being the victim of a cantrip somehow grants you a preternatural ability to penetrate disguises, including those resulting from higher-level spells like Disguise Self and shapeshifting, like that of the Changeling.