Stunning Fist Combined With Coup de Grace?

[Ilterstan]

Hi, I would like to know if I can make a Coup de Grace attack against an enemy that has been stunned by the Stunning Fist feat.

If the answer is yes... wouldn't this be too overpowered? You could kill almost any kind of creature in just two turns! And if you're a monk, you can repeat this combination several times a day

[Yuki Akuma]

You can only coup de grace a helpless enemy.

"Helpless" is defined as "paralyzed, held, bound, sleeping or unconscious".

Stunning Fist stuns people.

[Eldariel]

Hi, I would like to know if I can make a Coup de Grace attack against an enemy that has been stunned by the Stunning Fist feat.

If the answer is yes... wouldn't this be too overpowered? You could kill almost any kind of creature in just two turns! And if you're a monk, you can repeat this combination several times a day

You cannot. Coup de Grace (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/combatModifiers.htm#coupdeGrace) requires a Helpless (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#helpless) opponent, Stunned (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#stunned) is not Helpless. That said, it wouldn't really be overpowered either way, because:
- You only have 1/day/level.
- Save DC is based on your Wis (secondary stat after Str at best) and targets Fort, which tends to be an insanely good save (refer to SRD averages for numbers (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?548437-SRD-Averages&p=22761200))
- You need to hit the attack and be in melee to deliver Stunning Fist. It's easy to declare an attack Stunning and then just miss it.
- Stunned-condition is something somewhat significant number of things are immune to (Undead, Construct, Elemental, Plant, Ooze have type-based categorical immunities of which particularly Undead are very common, and then there are spell/item based immunities).

In short, it has a large number of failure conditions and it targets typically high enemy saves (Fort and AC). But this is not the case, of course. As you can imagine, due to all of this it's a rather weak ability. Color Spray (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/colorSpray.htm) (Wizard 1) is an AOE version targeting Will (typically much worse save for monsters) and not requiring hit rolls or any such, and with save DC based off your primary attribute (Int; Wizards don't need to mess around with Str/Dex/etc. to hit things so they can afford to just max out Int). And you can prepare 4 on level 1 if you feel so inclined (1 base, +2 from 20 Int, +1 from specialisation).

[Hua]

I disagree.
Stunned is a different condition and left out on purpose.
Further, Stunned is barely any worse than flat-footed. You would not say that you can coupe-de-grace a flat footed person would you?
Only difference between a stunned person and an empty handed flat-footed person is a -2 to AC.
Further note that stunned people still get a reflex save if required. Those that meet the conditions for Coupe-de-grace do not.

[darkdragoon]

You'd need Freezing the Lifeblood which has its own limitations.

[16bearswutIdo]

You cannot Coup de Grace a stunned target. This is a pretty common misconception among monk players though. I'm guilty of having done it myself. If you have a PC doing this, it probably isn't out of some kind of malicious intent to make his character OP. He probably just assumed that since they're stunned, they're helpless.

[Pleh]

You cannot Coup de Grace a stunned target. This is a pretty common misconception among monk players though. I'm guilty of having done it myself. If you have a PC doing this, it probably isn't out of some kind of malicious intent to make his character OP. He probably just assumed that since they're stunned, they're helpless.

It wouldn't be a bad house feat though. "You may CdG Stunned creatures. It still takes a Full Round Action, provokes AoO, and can't be used on creatures immune to critical hits."

[daremetoidareyo]

It wouldn't be a bad house feat though. "You may CdG Stunned creatures. It still takes a Full Round Action, provokes AoO, and can't be used on creatures immune to critical hits."

Necksnap like a boss [general]

[AlignmentDebate]

It wouldn't be a bad house feat though. "You may CdG Stunned creatures. It still takes a Full Round Action, provokes AoO, and can't be used on creatures immune to critical hits."

And you have to yell FATALITY.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

Necksnap like a boss [general]Prerequisites: Be able to quote at least one line from a Steven Seagal movie.

[Zaq]

Don’t forget that Stunning Fist wears off at the start of your next turn. Even with Freezing the Lifeblood or whatever, you still need either an accomplice or a way to extend the duration.

[tyckspoon]

Don’t forget that Stunning Fist wears off at the start of your next turn. Even with Freezing the Lifeblood or whatever, you still need either an accomplice or a way to extend the duration.

Freezing The Lifeblood lasts d4+1 rounds; you can do it alone, although if you're gonna spend a Full Round action attacking a Paralyzed enemy you might be better off just whaling on them with a Flurry of Blows than doing a single critical attack with a Coup.