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View Full Version : D&D 5e/Next New mind Control cantrip: Order



clash
2018-08-23, 05:21 PM
New enchantment cantrip based on the command spells as I find friends doesnt quite do it for me. Let me know what you think.

Order
Enchantment

Level: 1
Casting time: 1 Action
Range: 60 feet
Components: V
Duration: Instantaneous

You give a one-word order to a creature you can see within range.
The target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw or use it's reaction to immediately follow the command. If it has already used it's reaction, the spell fails. The spell has no effect if the target is undead, if it doesn’t understand your language, or if your command is directly harmful to it. The available orders you can choose and their effects are as follows.

Approach: The target moves toward you up to half it's speed by the shortest and most direct route, ending its turn if it moves within 5 feet of you.
Drop: The target drops whatever it is holding.
Flee: The target moves away from you up to half it's speed by the fastest available means.
Halt: The target can’t take reactions until the start of its next turn.

GalacticAxekick
2018-08-23, 06:34 PM
What do you mean by "spends its reaction doing nothing"? If the target simply loses its reaction, the effect is pretty underwhelming. If the target loses its next turn, the effect is absurdly powerful.

That said, the approach, flee and drop effects seem fine. I like Friends, but this cantrip fills a different niche, which I can appreciate.

clash
2018-08-23, 08:30 PM
Ya the halt is just they lose their reaction. I figured it was weak but there was no harm in including it for if it actually does come up. I might reword it that they just lose their reaction

Wisefool
2018-08-24, 10:03 AM
Too powerful imo. You have basically turned the 1st level spell Command into a cantrip. The Command spell lists 5 typical uses of the spell and your homebrew has repurposed 4 of those. So you have left "grovel" and any atypical one word command a PC can think of to the 1st level spell.

There is a reason the designers meant for this spell to require a spell slot, because otherwise it is too broken. Fights would become pure cheese as one or two PCs spam the cantrip, effectively incapicitating whichever enemy they target if it fails the ST. A modification to giving hostile creatures advantage on the ST would help, but is probably still too overpowered.
As there needs to be some sort of cost to the caster (loss of spell slot). Your inspiration of Friends has it in that it can't be used in combat (no hostile creatures), and if it is not used carefully enough, the combat may immediately start after the cantrip ends (target becomes hostile).

FlameUser64
2018-08-24, 12:21 PM
Too powerful imo. You have basically turned the 1st level spell Command into a cantrip. The Command spell lists 5 typical uses of the spell and your homebrew has repurposed 4 of those. So you have left "grovel" and any atypical one word command a PC can think of to the 1st level spell.

There is a reason the designers meant for this spell to require a spell slot, because otherwise it is too broken. Fights would become pure cheese as one or two PCs spam the cantrip, effectively incapicitating whichever enemy they target if it fails the ST. A modification to giving hostile creatures advantage on the ST would help, but is probably still too overpowered.
As there needs to be some sort of cost to the caster (loss of spell slot). Your inspiration of Friends has it in that it can't be used in combat (no hostile creatures), and if it is not used carefully enough, the combat may immediately start after the cantrip ends (target becomes hostile).
Order forces the target to spend their reaction taking whatever action you ask of them. They do not spend actions on their turn doing so. So you're… spending an action to move a foe (usually) 15 ft. away from or towards you, or to make them drop their weapon and have to pick it up, or to simply waste the foe's reaction for the round.

Wisefool
2018-08-24, 02:23 PM
That makes it a little better, but I would probably still give the target advantage on the ST if it was hostile before casting.

The reasoning being a hostile creature isn't going to be open to mind suggestions that run counter to attacking the user, especially from a cantrip level spell.

Anymage
2018-08-24, 03:05 PM
First thought: I wonder how often it would be used to let an ally use their reaction for a bit of tactical movement. Which does not seem intended, but would be difficult to prevent.

Second thought: By the words as they stand now, does anything prevent you from running an enemy over a cliff or into otherwise damaging terrain? Out of reach of your allies to let the meleers get opportunity attacks? Forced movement tends to be used for such things, and those tend to be much more powerful than your average cantrip.

If you really want an enchantment style cantrip, see if your DM will let you take Vicious Mockery. Possibly refluffed as a daze instead of just talking smack really well. Because just burning their reaction isn't that strong, but forced movement opens up a lot of shenanigans.

JeenLeen
2018-08-24, 03:18 PM
At first I thought it was too powerful, but after a couple re-reads and reading the comments above, I think it's pretty cool.

You limit it well-enough, and it only costs Reactions, not actions. Will save negates.
The "not cause harm" to self phrase seems to protect one from running off a cliff. Would it protect an enemy fighter drop dropping his sword? (I guess, technically, being less able to inflict damage on another doesn't open you up to more danger directly.)

I can see it being used tactically to cause enemies to lose their Reactions or allow allies to use new Reactions. That seems reasonable for taking a PC's action. I haven't seen metamagic in play in 5e, but I'm wondering if this Quickened would be overpowered. E.g., spend reaction to try to make enemy lose theirs, then spend action to do something else. But I guess it's probably okay.