Tossing the Halfling

[Maelynn]

My party will soon be joined by a Halfling - a dex Fighter (duelist).

The Bugbear already in my party immediately started thinking about how he could toss the little fellow in combat situations. The two characters will be friends from the same hometown, so if the player is up for it then they could become creative with this combat manoeuvre.

As the DM, I'm willing to see to what extent I can accommodate it. So I started looking at the variables, such as charge and throwing damage (if any) and possibilities for the Halfling if he were to be thrown prior to his (readied?) attack.

A scary coincidence: yesterday we came up with this and today this image (https://i.pinimg.com/originals/79/c9/ba/79c9ba229477c4a1bf98dac14c4f7d25.png) appears on Facebook regarding Gnome Throwing Rules.

I'm at a bit of a loss, though, so I'm asking you for your input. So far my thoughts were this:

- the Halfling will probably have higher initiative (18 dex), but he can ready his own attack to 'after I'm thrown and in melee range of the enemy'. Downside: he'd forfeit his bonus action. Although this will only be for 1 round, so depending on the benefit of being thrown it might be worth ditching the bonus action that one turn
- I'd like to give the Halfling advantage on an attack made after being thrown, but not sure if it's OP as it normally requires a feat (Charger). What could I do to make it worthwhile without being OP? Make it a flat +2?
- should there be a possible risk involved? After all, it's not just a simple toss - it's part of a combat manoeuvre
- if the toss is made with a willing missile, then there will be no damage from the actual throw - only the attack of the missile itself. This means the Bugbear will use his action not to attack, but to aid the Halfling in his. Or am I wrong and would this be considered to be the Bugbear's move action?
- using the Gnome Throwing Rules, the max distance for a Bugbear with 16 str would be 30ft (or 15ft when one-handed)... BUT the Bugbear has Powerful Build, does that mean we use the calculations for Large? If so, it'd be 60ft (or 30ft when one-handed)

[Alhallor]

Beautiful Thing about D&D 5E is that you can make a lot of stuff, that stands in the Book be really quirky.

If you want to Keep things very simple, just say that the Bugbear is aiding you with the attack, so you gain advantage. (Not 100% in the rules, but I think it would be okay because Rule of Fun) and just use your normal move for throwing.

If you want to make it a real "maneuver" I guess a Feat would be best.

Perhaps something like:

Name: Throw!
Prerequisites: Strength 13 or higher.
As a Action you can throw a Party member that is a size categorie smaller than you. (Would say that he should count as large with Powerful Build) up to 30 feet. This counts as normal movement, but ignores difficult terrain.

The Person who is thrown can use it's reaction to make a normal weapon attack.

You can use this maneuver two times, you can use the maneuver again after a short or a long rest.

Of course you should talk with your GM first, before implementing that stuff.

[Tanarii]

Why is it the first thing large-race / Barbarian players want to do is toss the Halfling? :smallamused:

Make it simple to execute: On the halfling's turn, he moves into the Bugbears space, then jumps up to his jump distance. If he moved 10 ft, he gets full jump distance, otherwise its halved as normal. The bugbear just tossed the halfling.

Gaining Mechanical advantage: Require the Bugbear to use his action on the previous turn. If the Bugbear does so, the Halfling gets advantage on the first attack he makes immediately at the very end of his jump without moving first.

Effectively, the Bugbear must sacrifice an action just like Help, but doesn't have move up to an enemy to do it, but the halfling must be within jump distance to get advantage. The Halfling can still be 'tossed' without any mechanical advantage any time he moves into the Bugbears space and then jumps.

[Derpaligtr]

Beautiful Thing about D&D 5E is that you can make a lot of stuff, that stands in the Book be really quirky.

If you want to Keep things very simple, just say that the Bugbear is aiding you with the attack, so you gain advantage. (Not 100% in the rules, but I think it would be okay because Rule of Fun) and just use your normal move for throwing.

If you want to make it a real "maneuver" I guess a Feat would be best.

Perhaps something like:

Name: Throw!
Prerequisites: Strength 13 or higher.
As a Action you can throw a Party member that is a size categorie smaller than you. (Would say that he should count as large with Powerful Build) up to 30 feet. This counts as normal movement, but ignores difficult terrain.

The Person who is thrown can use it's reaction to make a normal weapon attack.

You can use this maneuver two times, you can use the maneuver again after a short or a long rest.

Of course you should talk with your GM first, before implementing that stuff.

Definately wouldn't make it a short rest mechanic. That does some weird things conceptually that means your big ole strong guy gets tired for throwing 50lbs (which at higher strength scores is like nothing).

Besides, giving up your action yo move an ally is cool... But not game breaking. Even at will. It isn't a teleport after all.

Feat: Throw Ally

Prerequisites: Strength 13 or higher.

As a Action you can throw a willing creature that is at least one size categorie smaller than you up to 30 feet horizontally. A creature with powerful build counts as one size larger for throwing or being thrown.

Being thrown counts as disengaging as the process is unexpected. However you must have a clear line to the destination.

The thrown creature lands in an unoccupied space standing. If something blocks the thrown creature from getting to its destination, such as an invisible barrier or monster, the thrown creature can catch itself and land safely in the nearest occupied space.

If you throw a creature over difficult terrain, a pit, or other unsafe location, the thrown creature must succeed on an athletics or acrobatics check (DC set by the DM) in order to land standing at the end of the throw as their concentration is not 100% on landing.
===

Basically, for a feat, you can dash + disengage a smaller creature by using your action.

A second feat should be made for the thrown creature, so that they may use their reaction.

===

Feat: Thrown Warrior

Prerequisites: Acrobatics or Athletics proficiency

When thrown, you may use your reaction to perform on of the following.

- Make a melee weapon attack againat a creature you pass within 5' of or land next to.
- Make a ranged weapon attack at any point of your flight against a target within 30 feet
- Make a thrown weapon attack at your weapons normal range
- Land earlier than expected and automatically succeed on any Acrobatics or Athletics check that comes from being thrown

[Sigreid]

I recomend the bugbear toss the halfling in a nice salad.

[Kadesh]

Is this a euphemism? 💦

[Ganymede]

Why go through all the hullabaloo of making up new rules when you could use normal movement and attack rules and just narrate the action as if the halfling was thrown?

[Derpaligtr]

Why go through all the hullabaloo of making up new rules when you could use normal movement and attack rules and just narrate the action as if the halfling was thrown?

Because the halfling is the one being thrown, not the one using their movement. Also, if it's a base rule that you can exchange movement with other characters without expending a resource or action... Plenty of characters would just give up their movement so another can move.

[Maelynn]

The feats look nice, but would work better if we weren't already into the campaign and at level 4. I can't ask the Bugbear to wreck his stats, remove his level 4 ASI, and grab this feat instead.

I really like some of the aspects though, such as succeeding on an Athletics/Acrobatics to end the toss early should the Halfling wish to. I would allow that, if only to give the Halfling a bit more agency about where he's going to end up.


Make it simple to execute: On the halfling's turn, he moves into the Bugbears space, then jumps up to his jump distance. If he moved 10 ft, he gets full jump distance, otherwise its halved as normal. The bugbear just tossed the halfling.

Gaining Mechanical advantage: Require the Bugbear to use his action on the previous turn. If the Bugbear does so, the Halfling gets advantage on the first attack he makes immediately at the very end of his jump without moving first.

Effectively, the Bugbear must sacrifice an action just like Help, but doesn't have move up to an enemy to do it, but the halfling must be within jump distance to get advantage. The Halfling can still be 'tossed' without any mechanical advantage any time he moves into the Bugbears space and then jumps.

Yes, giving up the Bugbear's action (or rather, using his Help action) would indeed be enough sacrifice to not make advantage on the Halfling's attack OP.

I might rule that the Halfling doesn't need to jump up, because of the Bugbear's Long-limbed feature. While it does specify 'weapon attack' in its description, to me it makes sense that this reach also extends (ha!) to picking up the Halfling.

So then combat could go 2 ways, depending on who has the higher initiative of the two:

situation 1: Bugbear has higher initiative
- Bugbear's turn, he readies his action to help the Halfling by tossing him on the mark 'Halfling gets close enough for me to grab him'
- Halfling's turn, he moves into the Bugbear's space - this triggers the Bugbear's Help Action
- Halfling is tossed toward the enemy and gets his attack (and bonus action, if applicable) with advantage

situation 2: Halfling has higher initiative
- Halfling's turn, he moves toward the Bugbear and readies his attack on the mark 'when the Bugbear tosses me and I get in melee range of the enemy'
- Bugbear's turn, he uses his action to grab and toss the Halfling
- Halfling is tossed toward the enemy and gets his readied attack (no bonus action) with advantage

In situation 2, the Halfling could also choose to do something else with his first turn, like make a ranged attack. This way he'd effectively end up in situation 1 and would be able to use his actions more efficiently.

Does this sound about right?

[Lord Vukodlak]

Why is it the first thing large-race / Barbarian players want to do is toss the Halfling? :smallamused:


Fast Ball Special (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FastballSpecial)

[BeefGood]

It would be good to have guidelines for this. Low-strength characters can't jump very far or high, and some classes would really like to be able to jump far/high to do fun things.
Some ideas...
The thrower uses a reaction.
The distance added to the jump is the thrower's Strength modifier, multiplied by two for every size category difference.
The throwee must be willing to be thrown.
The throwee must start the jump from within the thrower's reach.
The most interesting question is whether the jump is considered to be the throwee's movement. Not just because the total move distance is affected, though that's true, but because if it is not the throwee's movement, then it would not provoke an opportunity attack. So a character could use a reaction to help get a comrade out of trouble.

[Louro]

One of them must be readying his action.
Bugbear makes STR check. Halfling attacks, probably with advantage due to the surprising nature of the maneuver (the first time at least).
Then halfling makes a DEX check to land on his feet and avoid fall damage.

[Phoenix042]

You should EITHER treat this as the help action, or allow the bugbear to attack with the halfling as if he were an improvised weapon. In either case, the bugbear can probably throw the halfling something like 15ft normal range and 30ft long, but if you want to allow further, it's your game.

In general, I don't allow awesome OMG gamebreaking stuff to work more than a few times in a campaign. If they do this every fight, it should follow basic, normal rules that exist in the Player's Handbook. In this case, only the Help action and the improvised weapon rules apply.

But sometimes, in clutch fights when the player's want to break out the halfling throw as an exciting exception... You should Rule of Cool some bonus damage or something. Let the bugbear make a "shove" attempt at a distance by throwing the halfling at people. Let the halfling deal extra damage (maybe 1d4 + the bugbear's strength?) on a hit PLUS advantage.

Idk, the whole "he gets to move in place of my attack, AND have bonus effects happen" is actually basically the battlemaster maneuver: Maneuvering Attack, which isn't something you want to step on too much.

[Tanarii]

It would be good to have guidelines for this. Low-strength characters can't jump very far or high, and some classes would really like to be able to jump far/high to do fun things.
That didn't even occur to me, but yeah. My solution above of "just jump can call it being thrown" ignores this.

There are two possible mechanical advantages players might want to try to game the system with when it comes to a thrown halfling attack:
1) To let the halfling attack out of turn on the throwers turn.
2) To let the halfling "jump" further than they can normally jump. And possibly further than the thrower can jump too.

Honestly if you don't want it to become a niche move, you can probably just go with 1 character spending their action to throw another their jump distance. Then the second character attacks on their initiative. Or immediately make a ready action attack if they prepared one.

Ie Aragorn spends an action to throw Gimli a distance equal to Aragorns jump distance, or at least further than Gimlis jump distance. Then Gimli attacks with a ready action attack. Then Gimli attacks on his normal initiative, the Aragorn jumps the gap and attacks on his turn.

(This breaks down somewhat in 5e because Gimli is probably stronger than Aragorn and can jump further on his own, within the limitations of remaining movement. Since dwarves don't take a jump distance penalty.)

[Kadesh]

There are quite a few ways to boost the jump, and Advantage provided by the help action is there. Athlete Feat, Thief Rogue 3, Monk 2, even Champion 7 (although that's only if you are already going that way).

I'd possibly rule that the first time it was used against an enemy combatant in a fight, it would grant advantage on the attacks you make.