What's the most complex tank/bruiser?

[Man_Over_Game]

I'm joining a new group, and although I don't know the team comp, tanks are almost always in demand. But I haven't played much of them, and I need your advice.

I'm wanting to find a warrior that has multiple tactical decisions to make, and makes them fairly frequently. Not something that's necessarily super effective (like a Totem Barbarian is) but more on the lines of being complex and having multiple strategies to take.

I'm also big on RP elements, so any suggestions there would also be very helpful!

I know that melee combat is rather simple in DnD 5e, but I'm hoping there's some suggestions you guys might have. In case it is relevant, I have access to all of the core books, and only those are allowed in this campaign (no UA).

(Note: I have a similar thread on healers, if that interests you)

[CTurbo]

Ok I'm gonna answer the exciting healer/complex tank questions with the same answer.

Tempest Cleric

Go Variant Human with the Heavy Armor Mastery feat level 1 and get into full Plate as soon as you can. Use a Warhammer and Shield for 20 AC plus -3 damage reduction from the feat. You could easily start 16 Str, 14 Con, 16 Wis

Tempest Clerics make great tanks because you can have a high AC and dish out a LOT of damage in a lot of different ways. Spirit Guardians is almost overpowered. You deal 3d8 damage to all enemies within 15 ft of you as long as you have the spell up both when they enter the area and if they start their turn there. Spiritual Weapon basically gives you a bonus action 1d8+ Wis attack that you can even use at range. You can head into battle with both of those things up and use your actual action for anything you want. Attack with your Warhammer, cast a cantrip, cast a blasting spell, cast a control spell, heal somebody, or just simply use the dodge action.

Tempest Clerics get some great control spells like Gust of Wind, Fog Cloud, Sleet Storm, etc... but best of all, you can maximize Thunder and Lightning spell damage once or twice per short rest which makes you one of the best Area of Effect blasters in the game.

Of yeah and yo're good at healing too when you need it.

Just pump Wis and grab Warcaster to help with concentration checks and you'll be unstoppable. Sentinel is also great to keep enemies locked down in your Spiritual Guardians. At level 8 your weapon attack will do 2d8+Str damage. Spiritual Weapon and Spirit Guardians can be upcast for more damage too. You could literally be the highest DPR character in the game as well as the tankiest and healiest lol

Oh and I forget to mention that you can shock enemies that hit you for 2d8 damage too making you even tankier.

[Spectrulus]

I've had a fun time playing a PAM Ranger Primeval Warden. Gain 1/2 level THP every round, 3 attacks at level 5, can cast Entangle to slow enemies, Zephyr strike to catch things if necessary, and minimum 10ft reach, 15 with halberds. Only downside is slow (5ft/round) in Treant form. It plays very fun, but it is Unearthed Arcana, which varies from table to table.

[Man_Over_Game]

I've had a fun time playing a PAM Ranger Primeval Warden. Gain 1/2 level THP every round, 3 attacks at level 5, can cast Entangle to slow enemies, Zephyr strike to catch things if necessary, and minimum 10ft reach, 15 with halberds. Only downside is slow (5ft/round) in Treant form. It plays very fun, but it is Unearthed Arcana, which varies from table to table.

I appreciate the response, but one of the criteria mentioned with the intro is that my GM is only allowing official books. I'll look into it if I have the chance for an unofficial game, though.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Hmm... Deep Gnome Fighter 1/Abjurer Wizard? The Svirfneblin Magic feat lets you cast Nondetection at will, refilling your Arcane Ward in nothing flat, Booming Blade and/or Green Flame Blade give you a reasonable melee punch, and starting as a Fighter gives you heavy armor and Con save proficiency. Focus on Str and Con over Int and fill up on spells that don't require a save or attack. That gives you a pretty tough fighty type who still has all the flexibility of a Wizard.

A vHuman Valor Bard with Tough would also serve pretty well-- armor, shields, plenty of health, and plenty of spells. Dip Hexblade if you want more spellcasting ability.

If Mystic is allowed, that'll be far and away your best bet, methinks. Immortal Mystics can be impressively tanky, and you wind up with a huge variety of powers and a really clogged bonus action economy--lots of choices to be made and tactics to be used. Whoops, just saw no UA, sorry.

[samcifer]

I've had a fun time playing a PAM Ranger Primeval Warden. Gain 1/2 level THP every round, 3 attacks at level 5, can cast Entangle to slow enemies, Zephyr strike to catch things if necessary, and minimum 10ft reach, 15 with halberds. Only downside is slow (5ft/round) in Treant form. It plays very fun, but it is Unearthed Arcana, which varies from table to table.

Warden? Don't recall a subclass with that name. There's a warden class in 4e, but this is 5e.

[LudicSavant]

Generally speaking, gishes (such as Clerics, Druids, Wizards, and Cha-based mixes) are the most complex tanks with the greatest variety of strategies and frequent decision points.

[Vogie]

I'd do a combination of Cavalier fighter and Cleric, either Forge or Tempest, although War and Death would also be interesting.


Warden? Don't recall a subclass with that name. There's a warden class in 4e, but this is 5e.

He mean Primeval Guardian, which is a UA Ranger archetype.

[GlenSmash!]

I don't know about the Most Complex, but a bog standard Ancestral Guardian brought a new dimension to the old Barbarian which was always a pretty good tank/bruiser.

[ATHATH]

Hmm... Deep Gnome Fighter 1/Abjurer Wizard? The Svirfneblin Magic feat lets you cast Nondetection at will, refilling your Arcane Ward in nothing flat, Booming Blade and/or Green Flame Blade give you a reasonable melee punch, and starting as a Fighter gives you heavy armor and Con save proficiency. Focus on Str and Con over Int and fill up on spells that don't require a save or attack. That gives you a pretty tough fighty type who still has all the flexibility of a Wizard.

A vHuman Valor Bard with Tough would also serve pretty well-- armor, shields, plenty of health, and plenty of spells. Dip Hexblade if you want more spellcasting ability.

If Mystic is allowed, that'll be far and away your best bet, methinks. Immortal Mystics can be impressively tanky, and you wind up with a huge variety of powers and a really clogged bonus action economy--lots of choices to be made and tactics to be used. Whoops, just saw no UA, sorry.
I personally prefer variant human Hexblade 2/Abjuration Wizard 18, using that invocation that lets you cast Mage Armor at-will instead of Nondetection. The main advantage to doing this is being able to snag Armor of Agathys, which combos really well with the Abjurer’s pool of pseudo-HP (which can extend the lifespan of Armor of Agathys in battle tremendously). Pick up War Caster with your variant human bonus feat and gain the ability to cast spells on enemies as they run away from you.

[Nifft]

Hmm... Deep Gnome Fighter 1/Abjurer Wizard?

That seems simpler than just a plain old Mountain Dwarf Abjuration Wizard.

Medium Armor + Battleaxe: yay Dwarf.

You need high Str, high Con, tolerable Dex (14 for armor), and of course as a Wizard you want high Intelligence -- being a Dwarf helps with the first two, so really you just need a decent Dex and some Int.

Then use one or more SCAG cantrip(s) to attack, so you don't rely on your Int for at-will damage. Use your spells for buffs & BFC.

[Mortis_Elrod]

Kind of depends on the levels I think. Personally I like Paladin/Barbarian . Lots of HP, good damage, decent ac with shield medium armor and defense fighting style. All the barbarian subclasses can be useful for this. Dragonborn is the preferred race with an active Non spell aoe effect and I highly reccomend picking up the dragon fear feat. It’s just another great option for this mix.

My favorite is a the fear inducing tank. 10/10 split of Dragonborn Conquest Paladin and Frenzied Barb.

Multiple ways of fearing people and then keeping them still in your aura is great. The intimidating presence From Barbarian is perfect for single targets combined with the aura at 7.

This kind of build is best in mid-late levels though.

[Grod_The_Giant]

I personally prefer variant human Hexblade 2/Abjuration Wizard 18, using that invocation that lets you cast Mage Armor at-will instead of Nondetection. The main advantage to doing this is being able to snag Armor of Agathys, which combos really well with the Abjurer’s pool of pseudo-HP (which can extend the lifespan of Armor of Agathys in battle tremendously). Pick up War Caster with your variant human bonus feat and gain the ability to cast spells on enemies as they run away from you.
Ooh, that's pretty good too.

[Vogie]

My favorite is a the fear inducing tank. 10/10 split of Dragonborn Conquest Paladin and Frenzied Barb.

Multiple ways of fearing people and then keeping them still in your aura is great. The intimidating presence From Barbarian is perfect for single targets combined with the aura at 7.

Oh man, the combination of Conquest Paladin 7 and Long Death Monk 6 would be awesome if it wasn't so MAD. Even if it was a Dexadin, it'd be insane to pull off.

[sophontteks]

Given how you made threads about complex tanks and complex healers I'm going to suggest one that does both.

The life cleric.

There is the misconception that life clerics are classic sit in the back healers. No, they are tanks. They have heavy armor proceciency, shields, and self-healing. They are made to stand up front and take a beating. The complexity comes with being a full caster sitting in the front lines.

[LudicSavant]

I personally prefer variant human Hexblade 2/Abjuration Wizard 18, using that invocation that lets you cast Mage Armor at-will instead of Nondetection. The main advantage to doing this is being able to snag Armor of Agathys, which combos really well with the Abjurer’s pool of pseudo-HP (which can extend the lifespan of Armor of Agathys in battle tremendously). Pick up War Caster with your variant human bonus feat and gain the ability to cast spells on enemies as they run away from you.

This is always a good one.

[Exocist]

Controllers can generally be good "tanks" (well, they prevent damage to the rest of your team so that counts). Honestly, without variant rules to give you more options, most tank builds that rely on martial classes will generally be stuck using 1-2 main gimmicks constantly - which isn't really the type of multi-option gameplay you want.

Deep Gnome Abjurer Wizard or any race (I prefer Yuan-Ti over Vuman) Hexblade 2/Abjurer Wizard 18 can still be a good controller, even with the inoptimal subclass for controlling the wizard list in general is pretty good at controlling. And, hey, you have a bunch of free HP every combat.

If you don't like that kind of abuse, you can always try one of the following instead
- Illusionist or Diviner wizard (Illusionists have far more options, but are DM dependent until level 13-14. Diviners have less options but are more likely to land those options due to portent)
- Lore Bard or Hexblade 2/Lore Bard 18 (Classic. Cutting words is great at preventing damage to your team, you have control spells otherwise. If you took the Warlock levels, you have good consistent damage in Agonising + Repelling Eldritch Blast).
- Moon Druid (They're pretty tanky and they have options through transforming as well as spellcasting. You just can't really do anything with both transforming and spellcasting simultaneously until level 18 - you're stuck with laying down a concentration spell and switching.)
- Aforementioned Tempest Cleric - doesn't have a ton of great options, but strategic use of the channel divinity and spell slots saves lives.

[MrStabby]

Conquest paladin.

Good HD, Good armour and the ability to use fear effects to keep enemies off your back and your team's back. With PAM and sentinel your position matters adding complexity and adding more options and power.

Still a lot of spells to add complexity and with some good control functions built in.

Great support with a protective aura and lay on hands for a lot of extra efficient healing.

[Rerem115]

Personally, I've always been a fan of the "Meleemancer"; a character who uses creativity and their physical prowess to alter the flow of a fight. An enemy being a bit too close to an ally? Thwack them hard, then shove them away and spirit your ally to safely! You worried that your sorcerer's paltry 13 AC is gonna let them get one-shot?
Look as big and scary as possible, and if you still haven't drawn aggro, insult your puny foes who are too cowardly to face you! They trying to run past you to bumrush your wizard? Knock 'em to the ground, then disarm them before using your massive bulk to provide cover!

By thinking like that, I've managed to make single-classed Fighters and Barbarians have a major tactical impact despite the apparent lack of options. Athletics, high Strength, and Shieldmaster/Sentinel can go a long way with just a little creative thinking.

[JellyPooga]

Rogues make remarkably good tanks; decent AC from high Dex (and potentially personal buffs as an AT), Uncanny Dodge, Evasion and Expertise in Athletics for grappling (aka; mundane battlefield control) makes for someone durable and a little sticky. Add in the Sentinel feat and off-turn Sneak Attacks for real threat if you ignore him and you're good to go. Cunning Action gets you where you need to be, when you need to be there and makes fights that little bit more interesting. If you're really that worried about armour and HP, a dip into Barbarian for Rage resistances and a Shield does wonders.

Downsides? Multiple foes or Multi-Attack foes are a problem, bit the same can largely be said of any tank build.

[Phoenix042]

I'm joining a new group, and although I don't know the team comp, tanks are almost always in demand. But I haven't played much of them, and I need your advice.

I'm wanting to find a warrior that has multiple tactical decisions to make, and makes them fairly frequently.

My favorite of my characters is a "support fighter' build; a protection style battlemaster with the shield master feat and LOTS of good decisions to make each round. My maneuvers include commander's strike, maneuvering attack, and distracting attack, which will NOT feel fun and powerful if you don't have strong strikers in your group to follow up.

In my case, I have an assassin rogue / gloom stalker archer and a GWM vengeance paladin.

In one memorable fight against a hydra, I did over 70 damage in one attack, two turns in a row. Neither of those attacks was MY attack, but that didn't help the hydra any. First I commanded the assassin rogue to attack again even though she had already gone, then on my next turn I commanded the paladin to smite and he rolled a crit.

Plus my attacks aren't normally mathematically impressive when you just look at the damage numbers on my character sheet, but when I need to, I can still action surge, and I use maneuver dice whenever I crit to grant an ally advantage or move one around off-turn. When shoving won't help or can't work, I sacrifice my bonus action to upgrade my attack into a paladin smite or an assassin sneak attack.

And off turn, I've got riposte and protection fighting style, giving me options for ways to influence the battle with my reaction as well.

[Silkensword]

As far as damage calculations go, the barbarian is hilariously complex, especially since it's often looked at as a "dont worry just hit things" class, I'm not sure it would be considered the most complex!

As far as tactics and combat planning go, you can have a lot of different melee classes that focus on battlefield control. Battlemaster is the most obvious one here, since it also has the flavour of a considerate planner. It really depends how far out of a pure melee role you're willing to step, though.

Currently, my main character is a single class Bladesinger. Battlefield controle is the name of the game with that one; damaging or slowing zones, while still fitting into a tank role due to the amazing AC and damage mitigation. If you are looking at mundane classes, Monks are amazing starting mid levels due to stunning fist, and you'll have lots of fun with the utility they provide, especially open hand.

If you're looking for something purely mundane with none of that fancy Ki nonsense, Battlemaster is likely your best bet, in my opinion.

Mr.Stabby's suggestion of a conquest paladin is also very good, they're another class that can really project power across the battlefield.