Command and telepathy

[No brains]

The spell Command specifies that the caster has to 'speak' a command that is in a language understood by the target. I'm curious if telepathy counts as a language and if using it counts as speaking.

Should 'speak' be taken to mean audible languages, or could any form of coherent communication such as telepathy/ sign language be used to issue commands?

Telepathy is listed as a language in monster stat blocks, but its description in the start of the Monster Manual doesn't mention use the word speaking.

Maybe telepathy can't count because even if it counts as a form of speaking, it doesn't really use words. Various languages can fit more implications into single-word commands, but maybe wordless thought-dumping would be too easy to abuse without any codified limit to what a command could be.

[Greywander]

I believe most of these spells have vocal components, and I don't think telepathy works for vocal components.

How I would probably rule it is that if (a) you could ignore vocal components (Subtle Spell, for example) and (b) you had some form of telepathy that didn't require the same type of action (e.g. Message is a no-go), then sure, you can telepathically send the command to the target without others knowing.

[No brains]

I believe most of these spells have vocal components, and I don't think telepathy works for vocal components.

How I would probably rule it is that if (a) you could ignore vocal components (Subtle Spell, for example) and (b) you had some form of telepathy that didn't require the same type of action (e.g. Message is a no-go), then sure, you can telepathically send the command to the target without others knowing.

Here's the thing though- the command is not a verbal component. The V component and speaking the command are two different aspects of the spell. Even if a sorcerer were to cast subtle command, they would still need to speak a command in a language the target understood.

A normal casting of command would probably sound like, "zupdog Grovel!" in Common or maybe "zupdog Yark!" in Goblin. A subtle sorcerer may be able to eschew the zupdog, but they still need to speak a command for the spell to work. Subtle Spell would certainly synergize a telepathic usage of command, but it does not remove the need to communicate the command to a creature.


Another weird possibility of Command is that while the creature needs to understand your language, it might not need to be able to hear you. Certainly the phrase "...speak a one-word command to..." implies that the creature should be listening (and generally being audible improves understanding of language), muttering a command may be allowed. It's probably in a DM's court if the Command spell magically alters the command in a way that it could still compel a creature in the area of a Silence spell.

[Kadesh]

A53
Telepathy makes no mention of speaking, which Command requires you to do.

Telepathy does not allow you to translate words into another language (that requires the Tongues spell), nor does it give you the ability to discern what languages the target knows (Detect Thoughts needed for that).

No.

Your DM may allow you to do otherwise, however.

[No brains]

No.

Your DM may allow you to do otherwise, however.

I'm sorry if this seems like a little kid asking mom when asking dad fails. :smalltongue: I was dissatisfied with your answer because telepathy does not allow a creature to *physically* speak, it still allows a creature to 'speak' by conveying meaning. Sign language is still considered 'spoken' and inanimate objects such as art 'really speak to me'.

There are similar issues in 5e when colloquial, not literal, meanings of words are considered. Creatures can be considered 'on the ground' when they are touching the floor of an artificial structure, not only when they touch the natural surface of their planet.

I was also dissatisfied because telepathy does not require words to be translated, as telepathy is a language that all creatures understand if they understand at least one language. Telepathy is listed as a language as in monster stat blocks and its description in the beginning of the monster manual almost describes it as a language creatures don't need to understand.

Though the more I think about it, the more I am confused about whether telepathy uses 'words', which are key to the function of Command. Some may interpret telepathy as transferring images or feelings without sounds or images. However, even if that is the case, the succinct transference of a single unmistakable idea can probably count as a 'word', even without traditional sensory inputs. Earthhumans don't have telepathy, so we don't have a bunch of linguists who can tell us if psychic impressions count as true 'words'.

Lastly, I needed to leave the last thread because my weird thoughts on the subject have pushed it WAY outside the realms of 'simple' and 'RAW'. (will I ever know the telepathic words for 'simple' and 'RAW'?:smalltongue:) I apologize if it seems like I disrespected you by attempting to respect the format of the last thread. We now have more freedom to express ourselves and articulate our arguments outside of a simple Q and A format.
...Simple and RAW is the way that you're making me feel tonight. It's hard to let it go.

[Kadesh]

*Shrug*

Rules say what the rules say. Unless you find words to say the opposite, thems the rules. Ask your DM if you don't think this is correct.

[Greywander]

I think I may have misunderstood your original question. Why would you want to use telepathy for spells like Command, Suggestion, Vicious Mockery, et cetera, that require something to be spoken as part of the spell?

Is your goal to conceal the command/etc. from other people around so they don't know what you said to the target? Or possibly so that no one knows you actually cast a spell?

Or are you trying to circumvent language barriers?

Personally, I would say that, depending on how the spell is worded, usually you just need to communicate with the target. You can cast the Command spell, but your target won't know what to do unless you actually tell them what your command is. Telepathy would be sufficient to communicate that command in my opinion. The reason why these spells say you have to "speak" is because telepathy is rare while speech is ubiquitous. Although, do be warned that this could be used against you. There are a lot of powerful monsters with telepathy.

This seems mostly like a question for your DM, as I don't think an official ruling exists on this at the moment. The Dominate spells do set a precedent for using telepathic commands to control someone.


telepathy is a language that all creatures understand if they understand at least one language.
Huh, I thought for sure you needed to share a language, but it seems I was wrong.

[Maelynn]

The spell Command specifies that the caster has to 'speak' a command that is in a language understood by the target. Should 'speak' be taken to mean audible languages, or could any form of coherent communication such as telepathy/ sign language be used to issue commands?

I'd say it would need to be spoken. It's an essential component of the Command spell, based on the 'has no effect if the target doesn't understand your language'.

It is an interesting question, though. While sign language is technically considered a language, it has no spoken components and should therefore not work with this spell. And what if a Sorcerer would spend a sorcery point to make it a subtle spell and forego the verbal component? Wouldn't that mean the spell fizzles, as nothing is spoken?


Telepathy is listed as a language in monster stat blocks, but its description in the start of the Monster Manual doesn't mention use the word speaking.

It's only listed in the languages section as 'means to communicate', but telepathy isn't a language. According to the description in the MM, 'telepathy is a magical ability that allows a monster to communicate mentally' (p 9).

[Tanarii]

And what if a Sorcerer would spend a sorcery point to make it a subtle spell and forego the verbal component? Wouldn't that mean the spell fizzles, as nothing is spoken?

Nope. The requirement in the description of various spells to speak something is independent of the V component.

In other words, casting a Subtle Suggestion doesn't remove the requirement to speak the suggestion, just the V component for casting the spell.