Help me choose level appropriate constructs!

[RoboEmperor]

For those of you who haven't been following my threads, I have found a way to create any construct in the game by using an obscene amount of xp at level 7 by crafting a scroll of wish as an artificer. XP is a river so by staying low level and using 100% of the xp I gain on constructs, I can craft even epic constructs by the time the party reaches level 12.

Now, I'm not a power gaming bastard who breaks the game and hogs the spotlight so I don't want to bring in a construct that will ruin the fun of my party members, so I need help determining what constructs I can bring in at what level without ruining the game.

So at what level can I bring out the following constructs without ruining my DM's campaign? Once out the construct will stay with me until it's death. I will only have 1 construct at a time.
1. The Hellfire Engine. HP:282. 2 slams - +30 2d6+21 plus 6d6 hellfire. DR15/adamantine and good. 20d10 breath weapon Reflex DC 32 every 1d4 rounds. Any creature attacking this guy gets 6d6 hellfire damage once a round.
2. Hellfire Golem. HP:140. 2 slams - +22 1d8+7 plus 2d6 hellfire. DR15/adamantine and good. At-will Fireball Reflex DC 15. Immune to most SLAs and Su abilities. I can change the fireball's energy type.
3. 60hd Hellfire Golem. HP:370. 2 slams - +52 2d6+7 plus 2d6 hellfire. DR15/adamantine and good. At-will Fireball Reflex DC 28. Epic Feats and Monster feats like maximize and quicken SLA.
4. 12hd Hydra Effigy. Average damage a round is 180. DR7/adamantine.
5. 12hd Hydra Elder Eidolon. Same as above except also immune to everything that is SR:YES.
6. Juggernaut. HP:139. 6 slams +21 2d6+10, DR10/Adamantine. at-will forcecage and wall of force.
7. Iron Golem. HP:129. 2 slams +23 2d10+11. DR15/adamantine. Unspectacular...
8. 54 hd Iron Golem. HP:337. 2 slams. +50 3d10+19. DR15/adamantine.

And is there a construct you recommend for me? (I love blasting).

I'm thinking just Hellfire Golem from the get-go, advance its hd, and then create a Hellfire Engine when it dies or its at-will fireball just doesn't cut it anymore (at which level would this be?)

[magicalmagicman]

I'd just make the Hellfire Engine from the get go and just not use his breath attack or full attack until higher levels with some reason like your character not liking over kill or drawing attention to yourself because people might mistake you as an agent of the hells.

[unseenmage]

Have you considered the Sacred Guardian in Bestiary of Krynn Revised? Grants Fast Healing, sentience, and a host of superpowers but bits of it are setting specific, if easily refluffed.


As I mentioned in the other thread creating a Construct which wields a weapon like the Brass Golem could let you optimize the weapon since the two are created together and are considered all one Construct.

Make the weapon an Intelligent Magic Item or even a wondrous item. Thanks to the trapped items (DMG2 I think?) the weapon could even be a repeating magic trap for extra cheese.

Does Shield Guardian give enough to be worthwhile on your Hellfire Golem?

There's also a Golem specific template somewhere, Dragon mag I think, that gives the thing Greater Teleport at will but binds it to a specific structure or location. Which is less of a limiting factor when you intend to animate a house anyway.

[RoboEmperor]

Have you considered the Sacred Guardian in Bestiary of Krynn Revised? Grants Fast Healing, sentience, and a host of superpowers but bits of it are setting specific, if easily refluffed.


As I mentioned in the other thread creating a Construct which wields a weapon like the Brass Golem could let you optimize the weapon since the two are created together and are considered all one Construct.

Make the weapon an Intelligent Magic Item or even a wondrous item. Thanks to the trapped items (DMG2 I think?) the weapon could even be a repeating magic trap for extra cheese.

Does Shield Guardian give enough to be worthwhile on your Hellfire Golem?

There's also a Golem specific template somewhere, Dragon mag I think, that gives the thing Greater Teleport at will but binds it to a specific structure or location. Which is less of a limiting factor when you intend to animate a house anyway.

Setting specific stuff being refluffed is not something what my DM does so that's out unfortunately. He also doesn't allow fancy stuff like template stacking, dragon magazine, or using magic item improvement rules to give it a permanent +6 enhancement bonus on it let alone feats.

Shield Guardian's damage output is too low. It seems it's hard for a construct to beat 30-40 damage a round with a full attack action. I mean, look at iron golems. On the other hand, hydra effigy's damage is too high until we hit DR enemies.

[unseenmage]

What an odd table to play at, free wishes are okay but the odd Construct improvement here or there is to much.
To each their own.

What of spamming Awaken Sand and Greater Humanoid Essence + Diplomacy jacked up to the Fanatic devotion from Epic Level Handbook?

[RoboEmperor]

What an odd table to play at, free wishes are okay but the odd Construct improvement here or there is to much.
To each their own.

What of spamming Awaken Sand and Greater Humanoid Essence + Diplomacy jacked up to the Fanatic devotion from Epic Level Handbook?

Free wishes are not ok. If you're referencing my other build, although I can have free wishes, the moment I try to attempt one I will have the DMG cleaved into my skull. The trick is mainly for my OCD. My DM doesn't strip a character of all of its items and leave them in the middle of nowhere so building my artificer the way I did has no benefits at all, but I have OCD about making all my chars wealth independent so I built him the way I did even though I will never use the combo I built him for.

How am I gonna get Diplomacy that high?

I think you mentioned this before, but I keep forgetting. What's so great about awaken sand? Seems like a 0 damage huge animated object that is BFC instead of damage with its engulf.

When i reach my books I'll look up Brass Golem.
edit: Thank goodness for PDFs. Brass Golems seem like a great option. Time to look up some magic weapon optimization. I don't think intelligent magic weapon is gonna fly with my DM solely because he doesn't really understand its mechanics.

[unseenmage]

Free wishes are not ok. If you're referencing my other build, although I can have free wishes, the moment I try to attempt one I will have the DMG cleaved into my skull. The trick is mainly for my OCD. My DM doesn't strip a character of all of its items and leave them in the middle of nowhere so building my artificer the way I did has no benefits at all, but I have OCD about making all my chars wealth independent so I built him the way I did even though I will never use the combo I built him for.

How am I gonna get Diplomacy that high?

I think you mentioned this before, but I keep forgetting. What's so great about awaken sand? Seems like a 0 damage huge animated object that is BFC instead of damage with its engulf.

When i reach my books I'll look up Brass Golem.
edit: Thank goodness for PDFs. Brass Golems seem like a great option. Time to look up some magic weapon optimization. I don't think intelligent magic weapon is gonna fly with my DM solely because he doesn't really understand its mechanics.
In my sig theres a thread called Dust is Lazy. Goes into some of the options for Awakened Sand.

I love them because they're a Construct that moves like an ooze, they're sentient so they get skills and feats, and the spell works not just on only sand but also on particulate matter.
That and it's a Construct made by a spell. Make it a SLA or put it in a magic resetting trap and viola, mass produced Constructs. Oh, and the spell is Instantaneous duration so these things persist in an Antimagic Field!

The material's the thing though. Black Sand for necromancers, Shapesand for everything else. There's a lot of cool and powerful particulate matter to make them out of.
I always wanted a character that could make them from the Disintegrated remains of my enemies. :smallsmile:

The only tricky part is that they're free willed and Friendly at creation. Usurping that free will is a must if one is to use and abuse then. Luckily there's the Rod of Construct Control and the Warforged domain.
But I prefer Greater Humanoid Essence since it strips them of their type and with it their immunity to mind affecting.


As for boosting Diplomacy, I used spells. Guidance of the Avatar primarily then just Googled other skill boosters that stacked from there.


Another spell I adore is Minor Servitor from Savage Species. Sadly it got turned into Awaken Construct according to Spell Compendium but our group ignores that bit because fun.
Minor Servitor is like Animate Objects but the Construct is sentient and free willed. The spell has the dispellable tag and is Permanent duration so not only do they need to avoid Antimagic but you can inanimate them with a wave of your hand as long as they're in range.

[thethird]

The hellfire engine is a chump (not really).

Check the Sardorian Golem (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20040123c), it is my go to golem.

That said for your purposes the construct I would use is the scouring stanchion from monster manual 5, probably advanced.

The Umbral Spy is also a go to, but it is Eberron based. A helmed horror is also interesting (I am particularly fond of playing ghosts and I love helmed horrors for possession targets) but it is Faerun based.

[RoboEmperor]

The hellfire engine is a chump (not really).

Check the Sardorian Golem (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psb/20040123c), it is my go to golem.

That said for your purposes the construct I would use is the scouring stanchion from monster manual 5, probably advanced.

The Umbral Spy is also a go to, but it is Eberron based. A helmed horror is also interesting (I am particularly fond of playing ghosts and I love helmed horrors for possession targets) but it is Faerun based.

I don't mind it being a chump. I'm just worried it's too strong when I bring it out (level 10-11). If it's not then I'm grabbing this guy, but I think it is. 20d10 at level 10-11 is an instant encounter wipe.

Sandorian Golem is nice. I might choose it over Hellfire Golem if webcontent is allowed. But I think Hellfire Engine is superior because his 20d10 breath weapon is unresistable by anything and even melts walls where as Sandorian Golem is only 9d8 unresistable damage.

looking up forge of war for umbral spy...

[thethird]

I don't mind it being a chump. I'm just worried it's too strong when I bring it out (level 10-11). If it's not then I'm grabbing this guy, but I think it is. 20d10 at level 10-11 is an instant encounter wipe.

Sandorian Golem is nice. I might choose it over Hellfire Golem if webcontent is allowed. But I think Hellfire Engine is superior because his 20d10 breath weapon is unresistable by anything and even melts walls where as Sandorian Golem is only 9d8 unresistable damage.

looking up forge of war for umbral spy...

The sardorian Golem Magic immunity is hard to beat. Yes, its breath weapon does less damage, but at the level you are you might prefer the sardorian Golem being cheaper.

The umbral spy is way cheaper. It is incorporeal, has telepathy, is intelligent and does wisdom damage. It also has a cost to advance.

[RoboEmperor]

here's a thought experiment.

Start with Hellfire Golem since it has the highest intelligence. As a golem it obeys your orders and has no free will, and no rule says otherwise.

Then use wish to change its race to a different golem, and then advance its hd so it gets feats while staying under your control.

[Armyguyclaude]

Why not create any construct and use nybors psychic imprint on yourself to imprint your personality and memories into the construct? So basically it'd be just a bunch of you's running around.

[RoboEmperor]

Why not create any construct and use nybors psychic imprint on yourself to imprint your personality and memories into the construct? So basically it'd be just a bunch of you's running around.

I want servants not clones of myself. If the clones are as power hungry and egotistical as me they'd murder or enslave me.

[unseenmage]

I want servants not clones of myself. If the clones are as power hungry and egotistical as me they'd murder or enslave me.

They are servants. They're even more servile than Simulacra.

[Armyguyclaude]

They are servants. They're even more servile than Simulacra.

Yea they keep the same feelings of the imprinted creature. so even though you may be power hungry you, i'm guessing, love yourself more than anything else. Pretty much selfishness and pride to the max. Each creature while independent of you would retain those same feelings. You could also charm yourself before hand to love yourself then imprint yourself. Then anything with your charmed imprinted self would technically love you.

"Since the gem retains the target's personality, any feelings the target had toward you are echoed by the gem and the crafted item. For example, if the target of the spell hates you, the item will hate you as well. This attitude includes any temporary modifiers to the target's mental state (since the magical field copies the target's current mental state), so a charm person spell on the target makes the item always view you as its best friend.

The target can recover from his ability drain as normal, and he and the item bear each other no ill will and have no unusual reaction to each other or way to recognize each other (in a way, their minds are similar but not identical in the same way as identical twins).
///
Note: Normally this spell is used to recreate the mind of a loyal vassal in a magic item to ensure similar loyalty in the item. Nybor used it to create spies in the households of her rivals, duplicating the minds of her charmed apprentices and presenting the crafted items as gifts to those she wished to observe."

[RoboEmperor]

They are servants. They're even more servile than Simulacra.

1. Is it webcontent exclusive? If so not allowed at my table.
2. I don't see any clause about being servile. it says usually Nybor uses it to copy and paste the minds of his loyal servants, but if you use your own mind (probably impossible since you'll be comatose) the guy will murder or enslave you.

[Armyguyclaude]

1. Is it webcontent exclusive? If so not allowed at my table.
2. I don't see any clause about being servile. it says usually Nybor uses it to copy and paste the minds of his loyal servants, but if you use your own mind (probably impossible since you'll be comatose) the guy will murder or enslave you.

1) As far as I can tell it's Wotc Archived web content. Can't find any reference to it being in an actual book even though the title of the content is called Magic Books of Faerun xD

2) You could cast simulacrum on yourself. Have the simulacrum use a wand of Nybors Psychic Imprint. Then once it was cast have the simulacrum use a wand of restoration. Plus it copies all mind affecting things current effecting the target of Nybors Psychic Imprint. Just cast charm or something on yourself or some such nonsense xD. I'm sure there's a way around the whole loyalty thing if need be.


Plus the "guy" couldn't kill or murder you while you were naturally attribute recovering since it just creates a "gem" or some such that has those impressions. That gem only lasts an hour. Unless you put that gem into something crafting it into it, the gem is literally nothing other than... a gem xD

[unseenmage]

1. Is it webcontent exclusive? If so not allowed at my table.
2. I don't see any clause about being servile. it says usually Nybor uses it to copy and paste the minds of his loyal servants, but if you use your own mind (probably impossible since you'll be comatose) the guy will murder or enslave you.

I was referring to using it in Golem creation.
Golems obey their creator AND Psychic Imprint copies the charm etc effects.