Feline Fighter (?)

[cartejos]

How would you make an effective Awakened Cat Fighter, using the normal rules for Awaken.
Your stats are:Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7
Strength: 3
Dexterity: 15
Constitution: 10
Intelligence: 3D6 (Assume 14)
Wisdom: 12
Charisma: 7+1D3 (Assume 10)

Because a cat has a 1/2hd, +2HD should just put it at an even 2RHD, right? I haven't ever seen a creature with more than 1hd but still had a fraction in it.
Your RHD are Magical Beast, D10 HD, 2+int, full BAB, and Fort/Ref

You have Scent, Lowlight, Darkvision (Gained from Awakened), and Weapon Finesse
Note: The cat gets Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, and Stealthy as its feat for "1st level" but I believe you can replace that under the rules for "Customizing Creatures". And you ought to, if allowed. Stealthy is bad.

You are tiny, you have 2 claws and a bite, which do 1d2 and 1d3, respectively.

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My vision of this, while I know is a very poor decision, is to capture that essence of the cat. Stay tiny, stay cute, stay sharp as a tack.

Int and Dex have the same modifier, and they are the highest modifier. When looking to damage, looking for one of those as a bonus seems to work best. Swashbuckler 3 can give you Int to Damage, but gives you a redundant weapon finesse. Factotum gives you int to damage, limited per encounter, but that should be good enough to get by. Solicit Psicrystal could do it, but that seems a bit out of sorts for a 14 int cat.

Boosting Charisma and finding a way to add that to damage could boost up the cute part of tiny, cute, and sharp.

Another thing of note, the cat will almost definitely want a mouthpick reach weapon. As other than some race-specific material, I do not believe there is an ability that would let the cat take extra advantage out of being in an opponents square.

Because of the lacking strength score, I'm leaning towards putting the cat through some ToB stuff, but it doesn't seem too flavorful. ToB definitely seems like the kind of material that can't be gained through natural talent alone.
However, ignoring fluff, ToB could bring a lot of damage back in, certain maneuvers might also bypass the reach issue.
And with some setting sun stuff, how funny would it be to see a cat drop-kick someone and they go flying 10 feet backwards.

Edit: is the SS feat "Uncanny Scent" basicaly "See Invisibility" with 20 ft range?

[zlefin]

I was pondering a build for one of these recently; was going to be ToB-based, focusing on shadow hand and tiger claw. That lets you use the cat's bonus to jump well. And the shadow hand stuff fits with a cat/stealth theme.

[cartejos]

I do like the shadow claw disciplines for a cat. Definitely super flavorful, just exceedingly unfortunate that Natural Attacks can't get the Dex to Damage from Shadow Blade.

[zlefin]

A DM might be willing to adjust that; since unarmed strikes are. The ToB weapons didn't seem to account for natural attacks; for instance it'd make alot of sense if a cat's natural attacks counted as associated weapons for Tiger Claw discipline.
You can also just take improved unarmed strike so you're using unarmed strikes which are definitely eligible. (esp if you take the unarmed swordsage variant)

[SangoProduction]

You might be interested in this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=9940202&postcount=165), but you said you didn't care for ToB.
Since your str is abysmal, you want to be come independent from it ASAP, so check here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?125732-3-x-X-stat-to-Y-bonus). I mean, your other stats aren't heroic level either. You stats are the average for a cat, save for the mental scores, which is like saying your character is a human with 10s straight across the board, but....they are better than 3.
Although you do say "fighter', you do seem to be edging on wanting a rogue character with skills, so here's what I've got.


Feats: Craven, Shadow Blade. Improved Unarmed Strike, Beast Strike. Pebble Underfoot, Underfoot Combatant, Confound the Big Folk.
Gear: Necklace of Natural Weapons. Minor Cloak of Displacement or Smoking enhancement.
Class: Consider dipping Whirling Frenzy Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian as a Rogue for your main levels. Oh, and since you're tiny, you can afford to give up a lot more attack bonus in dipping for more sneak attack. So, 1 level each of Swordsage, Rogue, and Psionic Rogue. That'll give you 4d6 total in Assassin's Stance. Also, Sneak Attack Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter). Not to mention that Psionic Rogue gives you access to Precognition, Offensive, for a +1 to hit.

For a more complete list of sneak attack granters (I'd credit, if I knew where this was from):
Sneak Attack

Sort of alphabetical, campaign settings books at the bottom of the post


Updated: 7 October 2007


PHB
Rogue 1, 3, 5, 7.../20


DMG
Arcane Trickster: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10 (full caster advancement)
Assassin: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (Death Attack at level 1, gain minor arcane casting)
Blackguard: 4, 7, 10/10 (gain divine casting at level 1, full BAB)


Psionic
Pionic Rogue: 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19/20
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b


Book of Exalted Deeds
Slayer of Domiel: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (Death Touch at level 1, gain divine casting at level 1)
Sacred Strike, feat, against evil creatures roll d8 for damage instead of d6


Book of Vile Darkness
Cancer Mage: 1, 5, 9/10
Disciple of Baalzebub: 2, 5, 8/10



Complete Warrior (all full BAB)
Dark Hunter: 3/5 (Death Attack at level 5)
Darkwood Stalker: 3, 6, 9/10 (Death Attack at level 10)
Invisible Blade: 1, 3, 5/5 ("dagger" only, faint as free action 1/round)
Justiciar: 1, 4, 7, 10/10 (nonlethal strike)
Ronin: 1, 4, 7, 10/10


Complete Divine
Black Flame Zealot: 3, 6, 9/10 (Death Attack at 1, advances divine half)
Temple Raider of Olidammara: 2, 5, 8/10 (gain divine spells at level 1)


Complete Adventurer
Ninja: 1, 3, 5, 7.../20 (Sudden Strike)
Spellthief: 1, 5, 9, 13, 17/20 (gains arcane casting at level 4)
Daggerspell Mage: 3, 6, 9/10 (advances arcane 9/10)
Daggerspell Shaper: 3, 6, 9/10 (advances divine 9/10)
Dread Pirate (dishonourable): 3, 7/10 (full BAB)
Ghost-Faced Killer: 2, 5, 8/10 (Sudden Strike, full BAB)
Nightsong Enforcer: 1, 4, 7, 10/10 (full BAB)
Nightsong Infiltrator: 4, 8/10 (Teamwork Sneak Attack)
Shadowbane Inquisitor: 4, 7, 10/10 (full BAB)
Shadowbane Stalker: 3, 6, 9/10 (advances divine 8/10)
Shadowmind: 2, 5, 8/10 (advances manifesting class 7/10)
Spymaster: 3, 6/7
Streetfighter: 3/5


Complete Psionic
Lurk: 2, 7, 12, 17/20 (psionic sneak attack, only functions while psionically focused)
Ebon Saint: 3/5 (sneak attack or psionic sneak attack)


Complete Mage
Unseen Seer 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 6 (either sneak attack, sudden strike, or skirmish; full arcane advancement)



Complete Scoundrel
Avenging Executioner: 1, 3, 5/5 (sudden strike, gain abilities to make opponent flatfooted)
Cloaked Dancer: 2, 4/5 (suprise strike, 3/5 arcane advancement)
Mountebank 2, 5, 8/10, ecl 7, Complete Scoundrel
Psibond 3, 6, 9/10, ecl 8, Complete Scoundrel
Master of Masks 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 6, only while wearing the Assassin Mask
spellwarp sniper 2, 4/5, ecl 8, (sudden raystrike, see text)


Complete Champion
Mythic Examplar (Dardallion): 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (early entry ecl 5, advances casting 4/10)


Deities and Demigods
Justiciar of Taiia: 1, 4, 7, 10/10, ecl 6 (gain minor divine spellcasting at level 1)


Draconomicon
Dragonstalker: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10 (gains 2d6 sneak attack each time, only effective against dragons, full BAB)


Dragon Magic:
Hand of the Winged Masters: 2, 5, 8/10, ecl ?? (sneak attack or sudden strike or skirmish)
Dragon Descendant 3 (subtle ancestor), ecl 8: gain 2d6, see text (also stacks for certain monk abilities)


Fiendish Codex II - Tyrants of the Nine Hells:
Hellbreaker 3, 6, 9/10 (can also steal spell-like or supernatural abilities)


Cityscape
Ebonmar Infiltrator: 2, 5, 8/10, ecl 7 (gain minor Int based arcane casting)


Heroes of Battle
Dread Commando: 1, 3, 5/5 (Sudden Strike, full BAB)


Magic of Incarnum
Umbral Disciple: 2, 5, 8/10


Miniatures Handbook
Skullclan Hunter: 3, 6, 9/10 (can "sneak attack" undead at level 2, read "Divine Strike" wording carefully, not actually sneak attack... I think)
Tactical Soldier: read "Flanker" ability


Planar Handbook
Fatemaker: 3, 6, 9/10 (gains minor Cha based arcane casting)


Races of Destiny
Chameleon: see text
Menacing Brute: 3/5 (full BAB)
Scar Enforcer: 3,6,9/10 (advance half caster)


Races of the Dragon
Dragon Devotee 2, 4/5, ecl 7, (either sneak attack, sudden strike, or skirmish; advances sorcerer casting 2/5)


Races of Stone
Blade Bravo: 4, 8/10 (melee only, full BAB)
Stonedeath Assassin: 2, 4/5 (Stonedeath Strike at level 5)


Races of the Wild
Whisperknife: 2, 5, 8/10 (full BAB)


Sandstorm
Scorpion Heritor: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10
race: Marrulurk, small Monstrous Humanoid, 3 HD, +1 LA (ECL 4), 2d6 sneak attack


Stormwrack
Scarlet Corsair 2, 6, 10/10 (full BAB, faint as free action once per 2d4 or 1d4 rounds)


Tome of Battle:
Assassin's Stance, Shadow Hand Stance - gain 2d6 sneak attack


Tome of Magic:
Andromalius vestige - see text
Malphas vestige - see text (sudden strike)
Shadowblade 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10 (sudden strike, at level 3 gain ability to deny opponent their dex bonus)


Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Rogue 3: "Penetrating Strike" - exchange trapsense for the ability to do half you sneak attack damage against undead


Eberron Campaign Setting


Eberron: Five Nations
Dark Lantern: 2, 4, 6, 8, 10/10


Magic of Eberron
Vigilant Sentinal of Aerenal: 2, 4/5


Eberron: Secrets of Xen'drik
Scorpion Wraith: 1, 3, 5/5 (sudden strike, full BAB)


Eberron: Secrets of Sarlona
Fist of Dal Quor: 1, 3, 5/5 (sudden strike, also gain stunning attacks)


Eberron: Faiths of Eberron
Thief of Life: 2, 6, 10/10



Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (3.0)
The Divine Seeker: 2, 4/5
Guild Thief: 1, 3, 5/5


FR: Champions of Ruin
Justice of Weald and Woe: 3, 7/10 (death attack at level 10, gain minor diving casting)
Night Mask Deathbringer: 4, 8/10
Shade Hunter: 4, 8/10 (gain minor arcane casting)


FR: Unapproachable East
Thayan Slaver: 4, 7, 10/10


FR: Lords of Darkness
Darkmask: 3/5


FR: Lost Empires of Faerun
Cultists of the Shattered Peak: 2, 4/5 (Death Attack at level 5, gain minor arcane casting)
Magelord: 1, 5, 9/10 (full arcane advancement)


FR: Races of Faerun
Warsling Sniper: 1, 3, 5/6, ecl 6, warsling only


FR: Player's Guide to Faerun
Shadow Thief of Amn: 1, 3, 5/5
Zhentarim Spy: 2, 4/5


FR: Serpent Kingdoms
Fang of Sseth: 1, 4, 7, 10/10


FR: Shining South
Crinti Shadow Marauder: 2, 4/5 (Sudden Strike, gains a "Shadow Pounce" at level 5)


FR: Silver Marches
Orc Scout: 3/5
Peerless Archer: 1, 4, 7, 10/10 (ranged only)


FR: Underdark
Imaskari Vengeance Taker: 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (half arcane advancement)


FR: Drow of the Underdark
Dread Fang of Lloth: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9/10 (sudden strike, full BAB)
Eye of Lloth: 2, 5, 8/10 (half caster)

[cartejos]

Hmmm a cats natural attacks do 1d2/1d3 -4 each.
Damage on a hit is a minimum of 1.
Improved Unarmed Strike for a medium creature is 1d3, 1d2 for small, 1 for tiny.
Swordsage gives scaling unarmed damage and IUS I believe
If minimum damage is 1 then any of these options would deal 1 damage regardless.
Shadow Blade doesn't replace Str to Damage, it gives a bonus to damage.
Dex Mod would need to be greater than the absolute value of Str mod to actually net any damage.

However, with the switch to using unarmed, a cat could also take Beast Strike and have their unarmed damage be equal to 1D2+1+Str+Dex. This requires 3 feats, Improved Unarmed Strike (Swordsage), Beast Strike, and Shadow Blade.
3 Strength is a 4 penalty, and 15 dex is a bonus of 2. Max Damage is still 1.
Boosting unarmed damage from Swordsage is gonna be the biggest damage booster I believe. Improving the base damage of the cat's claw would be second, though with the restriction of not wanting to increase sizes leaves little in the way of boosters. Finally, pumping dex with Shadow Hand would add flat damage, as well as attempting to boost strength. Is there any sort of item that sets your strength to a number rather than giving a bonus?

Edit: With a cat, who's tiny, I'm finding myself in utter adoration of Confound the Big Folk. No AoO trip against a medium or larger opponent who's square you occupy, they don't get their size bonus. AA-MAZE-EENG.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Awaken can be (Rod of) Maximized to guarantee 18 Int and +3 Cha.

I would definitely go with something that gives Pounce, and use sneak attack or similar for bonus damage. Also be sure to get Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike in the Draconomicon.

A Barbarian can trade Fast Movement for the Lion spirit totem which gives Pounce. One level of this Ranger variant (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#ranger) gets the same Fast Movement and could probably also trade that for the same ACF. Otherwise see if you can take the feat Catfolk Pounce in RotW, or use ToB and get the Pouncing Charge maneuver.

For sneak attack, you can use Sneak Attack Fighter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighter) and Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#fighterVariantThug) (optional) if you're insistent on using Fighter. I would dip a level of Spellthief so you can use wands of spells the class gets access to, namely Wraithstrike. If you use Rogue, consider using the Wilderness Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogueVariantWilderness Rogue) variant. You can use Daring Outlaw to add Sneak Attack to Swashbuckler levels, or you could even go something like (Lion Totem) Ranger 1/ Spellthief 1/ Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 1/ Swashbuckler 3/ Feat (Wilderness) Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) 14, and with Daring Outlaw you'll get +11d6 sneak attack total as it gives you sneak attack for the Feat Rogue levels.

If you take Psychic Rogue (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) 11 or Psychic Assassin (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723d) 5 you can get Mind Cripple and add 2 Int damage to every sneak attack, an enemy reduced to Int 0 is disabled regardless of its hp. An awakened cat likely can't do somatic components for spells, but can definitely use psionic powers. Going Spellthief 1/ Psion 4/ Psychic Assassin 6/ Slayer 9 with Practiced Manifester gets you 16/20 Psion manifesting (per the text of Psychic Assassin it doesn't skip manifesting at 5th like the table shows).

[cartejos]

Awaken can be (Rod of) Maximized to guarantee 18 Int and +3 Cha.

Might be hard to get by the DM "Hey, I'm playing an awakened cat. Since the druid who awakened me must've been at least high leveled enough to cast awaken, he totally used a maximize rod, cause that's most beneficial to me.


[QUOTE=Biffoniacus_Furiou;23324532something like (Lion Totem) Ranger 1/ Spellthief 1/ Sneak Attack Thug Fighter 1/ Swashbuckler 3/ Feat (Wilderness) Rogue (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#rogue) 14, and with Daring Outlaw you'll get +11d6 sneak attack total as it gives you sneak attack for the Feat Rogue levels.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't a, possibly, better, solution be Generic Warrior 1/Swashbuckler 3/Rogue X? Rogues get UMD as a class skill, and skill checks are fairly easy to boost.
If X=16 then you would get 9 Fighter Bonus Feats, Int to Damage, and 12D6 Sneak Attack.
Pounce could be jury rigged into the build with teleport magic items. And in some instances (some instances being low-op games) pounce isn't necessary.

That is, if the cat goes the sneak attack route.

Edit: Build as I have it: Racial Hit Die (2)/Swordsage 2/Barbarian 2/Swordsage +14
Feats: Weapon Finesse (Racial), ? (1), Shadow Blade (3), Improved Unarmed Strike (UASS 1), Beast Strike (6), Improved Trip (Barb 2), Underfoot Combat (9), Confound the Big Folk (12), Rapid Strike (15), Hold 18th level feat till 19 and grab Improved Rapidstrike

thoughts?

[Falontani]

There is a cat in the current villainous competition. It does melee it seems. Maybe something there?

[Troacctid]

I'd typically be more inclined to just be a Tibbit instead of fiddling with Awaken stuff. Then I could go into Warshaper, which is sweet.

For a true kittycat build, I'd want to invest in the Flop feat line, along with a generous investment in Handle Humanoid (both from here (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c)). Twining Trip is also a strong consideration that combines well with Confound the Big Folk. I'd make sure to have a Ray of Resurgence cast on me to remove the racial Strength penalty as well.

[Zaq]

Speaking of tibbets, there’s an old but fun op trick with tibbets (or similarly itty-bitty races with big STR penalties): if you’re CE, two levels of Soulborn (Magic of Incarnum) will let you ignore your racial penalty to STR, if you care about that at all.

Otherwise, I say get Confound the Big Folk (Races of the Wild) online ASAP and either go for precision damage, Swordsage maneuvers, or both.

[Telonius]

This (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showsinglepost.php?p=14014516&postcount=4) old build of mine came to mind. You could easily swap out a cat for the homebrewed platypus. Not the most powerful thing in the world, but if ToB is off the table it could be fun.

[Ramza00]

The Beguiler Race is effectively an awakened Cat.

Just reflavor this

http://photobucket.com/gallery/http://s39.photobucket.com/user/Celestialdragon100/media/84366.jpg.html

as an awakened cat that looks like a cat and not pickachu.

Size: Small
Type: Magical Beast
Speed 30-ft. Climb 10-ft
AC +1 Size, +3 Dex
Full Attack 2 Claws (1d3+Str), Bite, Tail can wield weapons and works like it had opposable thumbs (fine manipulation)
Special Attack: Rake (1d3+Str)
Special Qualites Darkvision 60, Lowlight vision, True Sight
Stats: Str 6, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 11
Thus Racial Stats are -4 Str, +6 Dex, Int +2, Wis, Cha, and Con are +0
Feats: Multiattack (bonus feat)
Level Adjust +0 (meant for cohort not PCs)
True Sight (Su): Beguilers are considered to have sight equivalent to a true seeing spell.
Skills: While dry a Beguiler can alter the hue and pattern of their fur. This allows them a plus 8 racial bonus to climb checks,
in addition they also possess a +8 racial bonus on climb checks. A Beguiler can always take 10 on a climb check even if
threatened.

You can get a beguiler via Improved Familiar (Arcane Level 7) or by Leadership / Other Cohort Feat. If your DM allows Beguilers play as the Cohort and the true NPC is your "pet humanoid."

[Particle_Man]

Maybe work towards Assassin? I doubt that many people would worry about a cat staring intently at them for three rounds. :smallsmile:

And this is 3.5, right? Since Assassin has spontenous spellcasting (based on int, pretty rare) you could work towards Dragon Disciple after that if you want to get weird. :smallbiggrin:

[Vizzerdrix]

Use tibbit and get into the prc that makes you count as those stoneskinned dudes (ruthgar?). Then take the barb racial variant that makes you large when you rage. I think it is doable by level 6.

[OgresAreCute]

Use tibbit and get into the prc that makes you count as those stoneskinned dudes (ruthgar?). Then take the barb racial variant that makes you large when you rage. I think it is doable by level 6.

The race is called Goliath and the PrC is called Stoneblessed. Both from Races of Stone.

[sleepyphoenixx]

Confound the Big Folk seems the way to go here to me. It deals neatly with the reach issue (the prerequisite lets you enter a creatures space without provoking) and even gives you benefits for it.
It also lets you easily trigger Sneak Attack, which will take care of damage if you pick up Craven.
I'd suggest Psychic Rogue but you'll want at least 3 Rogue levels for Penetrating Strike. If you're staying pure rogue take Wilderness Rogue so you can pick up (Ex) HiPS at level 13.

[Ruethgar]

Awakened cats are one of the ones that get effective negative LA before DM adjudication. Also, fractional HD are supposed to be considered a whole HD for all purposes except health so an effective 3HD. Because Awaken can hit Animal Friends you can also abuse the fact that Awakened Cat ECL is directly set to 0 as opposed to being a flat -3 LA and 3 RHD. It is only 1 more HD but IIRC it also boosts your half up to a full so you get 4d10 health instead of 2.5d10.

As far as the build, anything that benefits from high Dex and ok Wis would work, Swordsage is an obvious choice as mentioned previously, but with an ECL 0 you wouldn’t be penalized for being a caster either. Druid is the obvious choice, you are also getting 2 free feats from RHD and Weapon Finesse from race so if your DM insists on Surrogate Spellcasting it’s not a bit hit(by default you shouldn’t need it). Gishing is also helped greatly by 4 free BaB and an average of 14 free skill points for qualifications.

[Vizzerdrix]

The race is called Goliath and the PrC is called Stoneblessed. Both from Races of Stone.

Yeah those kajiggers! Stick em on a tibbit and wwatch the fur fly.