druid vs undead

[jdizzlean]

our group recently lost permanently the player who was our cleric

my druid is level 7, and we have a lvl 7 wizard (fire dps primarily)
the rest of the group is ranger 4/anthro wolf3 (i think he has 3RHD from something anyways), warblade 6, barbarian 7, rogue 6/PRC 1(i forget what she is)

my druid is summoning based, our group is low to mid OP
https://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=1218643
(ignore the spells listed, I have a printed list that is far more complete)

familiarity for wild shape is in play, so anything not seen isn't an option, which removes the vast majority of them from the table. I usually just spend time as a dire hawk to get a faster fly speed.

my questions is this:

we're going up against a fairly large number of undead now, vampires, ghouls, ghosts, shadows, etc.

I've read thru eggy's handbook, but it's pretty sparse on vs undead options. the only real semi-cool thing I've found is Bone Talisman, which essentially trades a 2nd level spell slot for a single turn undead attempt, still not sure if that's worth it or not.

can anyone suggest some druid options, either casting or summons or a generic form that might be able to better handle undead? right now i have a few BFC/Blasting spells, but more often just find myself firing a sling bullet or firing off a heal from a wand or belt. most of the things i'm aware of that I can summon can't do squat vs undead other than soak a few hits instead of them going to the party.

Last game, i dropped 3 hippogriff through a thatch roof in the daytime, they went into the next room and lasted 2 of their 14 rounds...

any official 1st party source is open, most ebberron stuff isn't however. must be 3.5
i don't have a magic shop in every town, and in fact we're on a continent completely controlled by orcs right now..., as an example, I've been trying to buy a monk's belt for 3 levels now... (about 8 months RL time) w/ no success..

[MaxiDuRaritry]

Get the whole group shirts of wraith stalking, from the MIC, and ambush the heck out of them. Perhaps take a crafting feat and help the group's wizard make stuff? Or even take Ancestral Relic or Item Familiar or even cheese the heck out of the Landlord feat to turn your "stronghold" into an uber magic item.

[jdizzlean]

Get the whole group shirts of wraith stalking, from the MIC, and ambush the heck out of them. Perhaps take a crafting feat and help the group's wizard make stuff? Or even take Ancestral Relic or Item Familiar or even cheese the heck out of the Landlord feat to turn your "stronghold" into an uber magic item.

i may very well have to take a crafting feat, but it'll be so i can get more wildling clasps, the wizard isn't crafting squat at this point, and i've largely been told that i won't be able to find or buy them for the most part...

we don't have a stronghold, we're traveling, and a stronghold of our own wouldn't be very useful in fighting the undead on their turf

wraith stalking seems cool, but as stated i don't have an "everything available here" magic shop access. if i can't find a monks belt, and so far only have 1 wildling clasp, and 1 cursed one in a bag at 7th level (which i would consider 'generic' magic items) it's unlikely i can find these which would completely derail the GM's storyline in it's current form.

also, i'm summoning based, as i stated, i'm not going to burn feats on things that don't further that... I linked my character sheet, I can't retrain crap to fit the current situation and was asking for advice on how to use what i have, or what i have access to right now...


things like the tinfoil hat and landlord super uber cheese aren't going to fly either...

[Kelb_Panthera]

All I've got for you is stars of arvandor, nature's purity, and sheltered vitality from BoED, Lords of Madness, and the SpC. Other than those undead are just like any other foe, hit 'em till they stop moving.

[jdizzlean]

All I've got for you is stars of arvandor, nature's purity, and sheltered vitality from BoED, Lords of Madness, and the SpC. Other than those undead are just like any other foe, hit 'em till they stop moving.

i had previously found something from BoED, but was told since i'm CN, i couldn't cast it, i think it was one of the secure shelter type spells

I did find sheltered vitality after posting the OP, so it's gone on the list

that's a possible on stars, i forgot that druid can cast them, but right now i only have 2 4th spells/day, so i'll throw it on the list, but probably not use it right now

nature's purity sounds super nice though :)

[darkdragoon]

With the ring you've got a couple lantern archons, unicorn, or a couple celestial birds, but you'd have to be pretty judicious with their use.

Thoqqua might be a bit more efficient with their burning.

[radthemad4]

You've already got Moonbolt, and that's pretty sweet for undead due to will save or helpless to two things.

Mass Snake's Swiftness (Spell Compendium, p. 193) gives all allied creatures in a 20 ft burst in medium range a free attack. This works nicely with summons, your animal companion and possibly even yourself and is handy when enemy saves are through the roof.

Frost Breath (Spell Compendium, p. 100) (30 ft Cone, Reflex save vs one round daze and 1d4 per 2 levels cold damage). Undead aren't immune to daze, but unfortunately a lot of them have cold resistance or immunity and you need to damage them for the daze chance. Many monsters have low reflex saves though.

Spark of Life (Spell Compendium, p. 196) is an oddball, that could in some situations be handy if anyone in the party has a nice not-fortsave save or lose that doesn't normally against undead (undead become vulnerable to fort save effects too, but they add charisma to them). Unfortunately, it's a touch attack with a will save, so I'd probably not prep this till I have way more 4th level slots to spare.

Lava Splash (Serpent Kingdoms) is decent fire damage if your DM is generous enough to make it 1d6 per level (the spell description says 1d4 per level, maximum 15d6, so one of those die sizes is probably wrong).

Arc of Lightning (Spell Compendium, p. 15) does 1d6 electricity damage per level, but in a line between two targets which makes it difficult to use sometimes.

Conjure Ice Beast (Frostburn). Constructs have some nice immunities. Multiple summons with a Cold Aura is decent against groups that aren't cold immune. Might be a decent use for low level slots. Some standout monsters are mentioned here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5#post_13865625)

[PunBlake]

A useful anti-incorporeal druid spell is Spiritjaws (3rd, SpC). 2d6 force damage per round plus lockdown on opposed grapple (incorporeal things are generally terrible grapplers) is pretty nice. Definitely a niche druid spell.

[DwarvenWarCorgi]

+1 on spirit jaws, vortex of teeth is similar but an area effect.

Primal Form from Spell Compendium. Min/lvl turn into medium elemental, nothing like smashing zombies as a fire elemental. Or Body of the Sun if you want a similar effect as a lower level spell (rai/raw question Ive never seen in game- does that count as daylight versus vamps and such?)
Align Fang/sliver fang if you prefer your wild shapes for fighting (also remember spell sharing for things like magic fang, align fang, GMF, barkskin makes all these buffs work for you double, just keep your companion within range.)

Or take two weapon fighting and keep a couple Flame Blade prepared. Use the flame blade in your off hand because it's a touch attack, makes the off hand penalty hurt less.

If your DM is being a Scrooge with animal familiarity BS, and you're summon driven, on downtime days burn your spell slots to summon animals to spar with so you can study their fighting techniques and become familiar with them. If he says no to that find a different game. (Also check out the alternate SNA availability in Frostburn, sandstorm, fiend folio and stormwrack, FF has very solid additions and the other 3 are environment specific. Or do what I do and show my DM books "that you might like" and after you've fought something a couple times start using it.
And throw some points in Knowledge Nature so when you're fighting in the mountains and try to SNA an Oread you can back up your meta knowledge with an in game skill check.

Keep pushing for your monks belt, my current character used one for a while, now I switched to owl feather armor with a wilding clasp and gave the belt to my animal companion so I boost her ac when I owls wit myself to boost the save DCs of my area spells.

[Nifft]

Both spirit jaws & vortex of teeth have been mentioned already.

Dinosaur Stampede is another [Force] spell. (That's one of the few nice things I can say about it.)

[jdizzlean]

Primal Form from Spell Compendium. this seems like it could be fun for a share spells beatstickery moment Min/lvl turn into medium elemental, nothing like smashing zombies as a fire elemental. Or Body of the Sun if you want a similar effect as a lower level spell (rai/raw question Ive never seen in game- does that count as daylight versus vamps and such?) my dm would probably read that as it's simply fire damage and go w/ that, so in that aspect it's kind of eh, but if combined w/ the above, maybe you could get either additional or stacking fire effects, and that wouldn't be so bad.... although at 1rd/lvl it's not that awesome in this regard


If your DM is being a Scrooge with animal familiarity BS, and you're summon driven, on downtime days burn your spell slots to summon animals to spar with so you can study their fighting techniques and become familiar with them. If he says no to that find a different game. I was actually able to use the summon dire hawk spell to gain familiarity with the form in order to wild shape into it, so this is a viable way of going about it. I also spent several hours once swimming the ocean as a shark, so essentially have carte blanche knowledge of all that is aquaitc. It's assumed that I know all the generic animals, but if i want something more "fun" i have to get over the familiarity issue... (Also check out the alternate SNA availability in Frostburn, sandstorm, fiend folio and stormwrack, FF has very solid additions and the other 3 are environment specific. this is a good idea, i will look at those tonight, thank you Or do what I do and show my DM books "that you might like" and after you've fought something a couple times start using it.
And throw some points in Knowledge Nature i currently have 10 ranks and a total modifier of 16 to that check, it gets used :) so when you're fighting in the mountains and try to SNA an Oread you can back up your meta knowledge with an in game skill check.

Keep pushing for your monks belt, my current character used one for a while, now I switched to owl feather armor with a wilding clasp and gave the belt to my animal companion so I boost her ac when I owls wit myself to boost the save DCs of my area spells.


and here are extra characters that are more than 10, stupid board.

[Goaty14]

There's a anti-undead druid PrC in Libris Mortis is you want to invest in the short term (unless the campaign is strictly about fighting undead). However, as the saying goes, planar shepherd is the only PrC better than Druid 20.

[Kyrell1978]

and here are extra characters that are more than 10, stupid board.

I thought I was going to die at this little bit here....bravo.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For Bone Talisman (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a), you can get an Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness) for cheap and put it on eight of the spell foci, so when cast on those bones the spell lasts 365 times longer than normal (over 17 days at 7th level). So cast it eight times on an off-day, then go adventuring with eight uses of Turn Undead.

Get a standard Strand of Prayer Beads (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#strandofPrayerBeads) with the Bead of Smiting removed, per the DMG that only costs 9,000 gp (regardless of what the SRD says) for the beads of healing and karma. Get a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend and more Unguent of Timelessness, and use the rod and bead of karma to cast your Bone Talismans, it now lasts 55 days at your current level.

[jdizzlean]

For Bone Talisman (http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a), you can get an Unguent of Timelessness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#unguentofTimelessness) for cheap and put it on eight of the spell foci, so when cast on those bones the spell lasts 365 times longer than normal (over 17 days at 7th level). So cast it eight times on an off-day, then go adventuring with eight uses of Turn Undead.

Get a standard Strand of Prayer Beads (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#strandofPrayerBeads) with the Bead of Smiting removed, per the DMG that only costs 9,000 gp (regardless of what the SRD says) for the beads of healing and karma. Get a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend and more Unguent of Timelessness, and use the rod and bead of karma to cast your Bone Talismans, it now lasts 55 days at your current level.


i can try that, assuming i can "find" that item somewhere... I previously tried to find i think golden desert honey i think it's called, and was told it doesn't exist in this game world, or at the very least it didn't exist on the continent we were on..

but i can try :)

and unfortunately Planar Shepard is out unless i can find some way and a reason to go to another plane to meet the entry req's. I originally built this character to go into MoMF, and after getting tired of the familiarity issue, was allowed to somewhat retrain/refluff a few things to go summoning based (although i think the DM would've preferred me to just go straight caster).

as for PrC'ing into one of those classes (which i don't really see any of them as druid entry) it would probably be great short term, but we're only in undead right now, i'm sure that after this current arc is over, we'll be into something else. I'd prefer not to specialize class levels as they're unlikely to be as beneficial later on. Pretty much think i'm just going to go druid 20 at this point unless something really fancy catches my eye.

[sleepyphoenixx]

There's not really anything you do different for undead than for anything else, except maybe cast Death Ward. Otherwise it's fairly standard animal companion buffs and BFC (which is worth casting even if you're summoning focused).

Your Hippogriffs being slaughtered isn't surprising, they're from SNA 2 after all. They're good for their level, but at level 7 they won't do much except soak up hits.
The Summoner's Desk Reference (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?255219-The-Summoner-s-Desk-Reference-D-amp-D-3-5) may be of help if you don't know everything you can summon.
SNA can also get you familiarity with anything you can summon so you can get some more WS options. Unfortunately the really good ones aren't on the list.

[jdizzlean]

eh, they were really only summoned since they're Large creatures, and 3 of them obliterate the roof by dropping through it, thus allowing sunlight to enter the room, but the vampire had already gone down the bolt hole of course and escaped. it was just the other crap that killed them, which of course meant at least 1 turn where the 'tank' wasn't getting ability drain, so it was still a win