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Greywander
2018-08-26, 10:04 PM
I had this idea pop into my head for a character that's a bit different from what I normally go for. Usually I'm all about utility and support, particularly casters, and combat is usually lower down on my optimization priorities.

Thematically, his basic goal in adventuring would be to seek out powerful warriors and challenge them to an honorable duel to prove his strength. But I want to eschew the stereotypical bloodthirsty warmonger archetype and make him polite, perhaps even jovial, possibly educated or wise, and maybe averse to violence outside the context of an honorable duel. He'd certainly avoid fighting noncombatants, and would even turn down a duel if it wasn't against a worthy opponent. I'd like to give him some personality that makes him interesting out of combat as well as in combat. Maybe give him a hobby via a tool proficiency.

He would also have an open mind when it comes to "honor", both to give him more character and to make him cooperate better with a party. For example, he might find the rogue's methods dishonorable by his own standards, but he would recognize that the rogue is operating off of a different set of standards, and still acts honorably within the rogue's own code (for example by remaining loyal to the party, even under duress or temptation). He might eschew traditional notions of Good and Evil, instead considering whether a person is Honorable or Dishonorable. He could probably get along fine with a Lawful Evil character that stayed true to their code of honor, and the moral code followed by most Good characters would be sufficient to act as a proxy for a code of honor. Speaking of, I'm not sure what his alignment would be; LN seems the best fit, but Ysgard seems like the more appealing afterlife for him (though Acheron or Celestia might be viable, too).

He doesn't fear death, but neither does he seek it. He has no compunctions against killing someone in a (lethal) duel, regardless of how nice of a person they might be. He may be inclined to kill people he views as dishonorable, particularly if they're making trouble for him (if they're no threat to anyone, he may let them go). Or maybe he likes to "mark" people he finds dishonorable, say, by cutting off one of their fingers.

I haven't fleshed out this concept, and I'm open to ideas for interesting things I could do with this character.

Mechanically, he seems like he would work best as a tank and damage dealer, optimized for one-on-one combat (lock down the strongest monster). He's definitely a martial class; a gish would be acceptable but would need to lean more toward the martial side than the caster side, e.g. more EK, less Bladesinger. Probably a Strength build, too, though I'm open to DEX options. Class-wise, the fighter seems to be the best fit, especially the Champion. Barbarian or paladin could also be options, and maybe monk or hexblade.

Multiclassing would also be an option. 11 levels in fighter get me that third attack, allowing me to combine it with other features like rage. Paladin 6 boosts my saving throws, though it requires a good CHA to be effective. Battlemaster fighter 3 would also be a good option if I decide to main a different class. I'm not sure when would be the best time to make any dips, though, and in general I'm not as familiar with martial classes.

Goliath seems like it would fit the fluff the best, though half-orc and dwarf also provide good racial features and could fit the fluff well. Half-orc seems like it was made for Champion fighters.

So maybe go fighter 5 (subclass?), then barb 1, then paladin 6, then barb (bear totem) 3, then finish off with fighter? Or would I want to get to fighter 11 as quickly as possible? Is a straight Champion a better way to go? I feel like the Champion doesn't offer enough tactical options; either I'm strong enough and I win or I'm not strong enough and I lose. I'd also kind of like to get the Compelled Duel spell, but it looks like I'll have to dip pally to get it.

I'm also not sure whether to go for sword-n-board or GWF. GWF feels more thematically appropriate, but SnB seems like a better option mechanically, as the damage isn't too different unless taking the accuracy penalty from the feat, and the extra AC from the shield is always helpful.

Fighters also get a lot of ASIs, though I'll get less if I multiclass or go with a different main class. Is it more important to get my CON to 20, or to get feats? Getting STR to 20 goes without saying.

CTurbo
2018-08-27, 01:25 AM
Honestly this kind of sounds like an Oath of Crown Paladin with it's channel divinity(Champion Challenge) and the Compelled Dual spell. I'd probably stop at Paladin 6 though and then possibly jump into Bard for some social expertise, more spell slots, and inspiration dice and/or cutting words. Swords Bard would fit thematically and give you a second Fighting Style.

Crown Paladin 6/Battle Master Fighter X would fit too with Goading Attack.

Crown Paladin 6/Swashbuckler X could be good too for Fancy Footwork, Rakish Audacity, and Panache

Quoxis
2018-08-27, 02:15 AM
Definitely look into some form of keeping others from interfering with your duel - magic circle for opponents with certain creature types, for example. Ain’t much sense in fighting honorably if the enemy is gonna pile on you.

Unoriginal
2018-08-27, 02:18 AM
It'd go with Swashbuckler myself.

Arkhios
2018-08-27, 02:37 AM
Personally, I don't get it why everytime someone has a concept of an honorable warrior, people try to shoehorn a paladin into the "build".

With what I gathered from the OP, a single-classed battle master would work well. More than well, actually. A fighter can be just as honorable as a paladin, and just as righteous. You don't need to be a paladin for that. In fact, you could even uphold a code of conduct similar to that of a paladin often does - without having any levels in Paladin.

Unoriginal
2018-08-27, 02:40 AM
Personally, I don't get it why, everytime, someone has a concept of an honorable warrior, people try to shoehorn a paladin into the "build".

With what I gathered from the OP, a single-classed battle master would work well. More than well, actually.

Literally any class would work, as long as it can fight in melee. It's not a question of class, just a way to RP the character.

Aett_Thorn
2018-08-27, 06:50 AM
OP, if you want a more wise fighter type, maybe look into a Kensei Monk. Take the rapier as one of your weapons, and go to town. You can basically be a Three Musketeers type fighter, or a Water Dancer from Game of Thrones. Light, nimble, and with the right background you can get some decent social skills as well.

Quoxis
2018-08-27, 06:55 AM
Personally, I don't get it why everytime someone has a concept of an honorable warrior, people try to shoehorn a paladin into the "build".

It wasn’t a paladin, it was an oath of the crown paladin specifically - these guys get the „compelled duel“ spell and a channel divinity that hinders creatures from running away, all great features for what the OP actually asked for - a character that duels strong opponents one on one, while the build focuses on being a tanky damage dealer - and which you don’t get as a fighter. It’s more a mechanics thing than „hurr durr honor equals paladin“.

Arkhios
2018-08-27, 07:12 AM
It wasn’t a paladin, it was an oath of the crown paladin specifically - these guys get the „compelled duel“ spell and a channel divinity that hinders creatures from running away, all great features for what the OP actually asked for - a character that duels strong opponents one on one, while the build focuses on being a tanky damage dealer - and which you don’t get as a fighter. It’s more a mechanics thing than „hurr durr honor equals paladin“.

I beg to differ. Both the Battle Master and the Cavalier are spot on for being tanky damage dealers more than capable of dueling strong opponents. Cavalier perhaps being the single-most tankiest sub-class ever made for 5th edition. They literally have a "taunt" that comes with immediate retaliation.

Ignimortis
2018-08-27, 07:18 AM
Battle Master Fighter (probably to 5 at least)/Swashbuckler at least to 3. From there on, consider what you'd like more - incredibly powerful blows in a duel or raw numbers and more tricks up your sleeve. I'd say that having both Rogue and Fighter at level 5 at least is a good idea for Uncanny Dodge and Extra Attack to surely land your Very Honorable and Not Sneaky At All Attack.

Quoxis
2018-08-27, 07:22 AM
I beg to differ. Both the Battle Master and the Cavalier are spot on for being tanky damage dealers more than capable of dueling strong opponents. Cavalier perhaps being the single-most tankiest sub-class ever made for 5th edition. They literally have a "taunt" that comes with immediate retaliation.

While you’re ignoring my point - that the proposed paladin subclass has mechanics aimed at what the OP asks for - yes, the cavalier fighter also has a variation of it. So do an ancestral guardian barbarian or a swashbuckler rogue, but that doesn’t exclude fighter just because i don’t like those, does it?

Arkhios
2018-08-27, 07:46 AM
While you’re ignoring my point - that the proposed paladin subclass has mechanics aimed at what the OP asks for - yes, the cavalier fighter also has a variation of it. So do an ancestral guardian barbarian or a swashbuckler rogue, but that doesn’t exclude fighter just because i don’t like those, does it?

I may be ignoring your point, but I'm not trying to dispute that. I'm just criticizing your thinking that a fighter doesn't qualify for "a character that duels strong opponents one on one, while the build focuses on being a tanky damage dealer", which simply isn't true. Regardless of how much you like the fighter, a fighter can do that. Period.

AvatarVecna
2018-08-27, 11:14 AM
Depending on the exact flavor you're going for, this could be a Valor/Sword Bard, basically any fighter with good Cha and/or the Noble background, Devotion/Crown Paladin, or Swashbuckler Rogue.

kebusmaximus
2018-08-27, 11:27 AM
+1 for swashbuckler rogue here. It's single-target damage, very mobile, charismatic, and has expertise for out-of-duels utility.

Fighter of any variety would be a worthy addition, as would paladin, but I think taking levels of paladin and using its magic is unnecessary. Mechanics to reinforce the duel shouldn't be necessary, since they will be matters of honor.

CTurbo
2018-08-27, 12:32 PM
Battle Master Fighter is a great choice too.

A Dex based Battle Master/Swashbuckler combo would be great. Fighter 11/Rogue 9 would be perfect IMO.