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Mars Ultor
2018-08-27, 06:29 PM
My prior character was killed at the end of our last adventure, I’m making up a new 8th-level Cleric to replace him. We’re allowed only core classes and races, no alternate class features, no other craziness. The DM will assign me magic items, but the campaign is often money poor so I can’t count on buckets of gold to buy what I’d like. I do know that the group has a currently unused +2 Heavy spiked steel shield with an enchantment that does an additional 2d6 points of bashing damage. It’s the Forgotten Realms setting, most feats and spells are allowed. Feats that add extra arms or similar things are not allowed.

For our particular campaign reasons I’ve decided to be a Gold Dwarf Cleric. My scores are 16, 16, 16, 15, 15, 12 but have not been assigned. (I actually initially rolled a character with 18, 18, 17, 5, 3, 3, but he was discarded.) I’ll have a +2 to Constitution to assign, a -2 to Dexterity, and two +1s because of level.

Most of the other PCs are not highly optimized and I don’t want to dominate melee and make the Fighters and Ranger useless. At the same time, a frontline combatant is a necessity, the Ranger is an archer and hangs back, and one of the two fighters is Dex based. I’ll need to stand up front, but I don’t want to obviously out-fight the Fighter. I’m happy to buff him--and the rest of the party as my primary role, and then go into combat.

I’m not sure how to assign my ability scores and bonuses as I’m not sure which of two paths to choose. There’s a player who’s suggesting that I essentially go Fighter, take Power Attack, Improved Shield Bash, and Brew Potion. I was thinking my three feats were better used on Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, and Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell. As it is I’ll have to have more Turn Undead slots and will have to take Extra Turning at 9th level to get enough slots. What’s the opportunity cost of four feats on anything, versus four feats devoted to making a spell last all day?

There’s also the question of which deity and domains to choose. I would be limited to the Forgotten Realms gods of the dwarves, and their normal domains. The character is essentially an offering of amity, there’s an alliance developing between the dwarves and humans in the campaign area. As the dwarven population has increased in the human lands, my PC has been sent to be a pastor to that community and to be one of the human lord’s “troubleshooters.”

Any help and suggestions would be appreciated.

ColorBlindNinja
2018-08-27, 06:49 PM
Your highest stat should go into Wisdom, no question about it.

If you're using Divine Metamagic, put your next highest score in Charisma.

Dwarves get a +2 to CON, so one of those 15s will do quite nicely for that.

If you're fighting in melee and wearing full plate, put the last 16 in Strength and put the 12 in DEX

What deity does your Cleric worship? That'll be important for your domains.

Goaty14
2018-08-27, 08:08 PM
+2 Heavy spiked steel shield with an enchantment that does an additional 2d6 points of bashing damage.

FYI, Bashing Enchantment


Feats that add extra arms or similar things are not allowed.

Also FYI, on the forums, we call stuff like this "cheese"


For our particular campaign reasons I’ve decided to be a Gold Dwarf Cleric. My scores are 16, 16, 16, 15, 15, 12 but have not been assigned. (I actually initially rolled a character with 18, 18, 17, 5, 3, 3, but he was discarded.) I’ll have a +2 to Constitution to assign, a -2 to Dexterity, and two +1s because of level.

STR: 16
DEX: 12 (-2 Race) = 10
CON: 16 (+2 Race) = 18
INT: 15
WIS: 16 (+2 Level) = 18
CHA: 15

STR, WIS, and CON all get maxed because they're good primary abilities for a melee cleric. DEX gets the dump because of Heavy Armor (and no reduced speed!), and everything else is filler. WIS gets the bump because... cleric :P


I’m not sure how to assign my ability scores and bonuses as I’m not sure which of two paths to choose. There’s a player who’s suggesting that I essentially go Fighter, take Power Attack, Improved Shield Bash, and Brew Potion. I was thinking my three feats were better used on Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, and Divine Metamagic: Persistent Spell. As it is I’ll have to have more Turn Undead slots and will have to take Extra Turning at 9th level to get enough slots. What’s the opportunity cost of four feats on anything, versus four feats devoted to making a spell last all day?

DMM: Persist likely falls under the "Do Not Touch" category of your DM. IMO, DMM: Persist is stinky cheddar no matter what you do (even if you intentionally pick crappy spells... it's like arguing Shapechange isn't broken if you turn into humanoids -- the potential is still there and can be changed instantaneously). Not that finding a thing to spend TU charges on is a heresy, but DMM: Persist is simply the worst offender.

I don't think you can mess up your feats TBH. Just keep in mind sensible decisions like "not taking toughness" and you'll do fine -- you ARE a full caster after all. Oh, and [Item Creation] feats are traps, don't take them unless you want to be a level lower than the party.

sleepyphoenixx
2018-08-28, 08:06 AM
DMM: Persist likely falls under the "Do Not Touch" category of your DM. IMO, DMM: Persist is stinky cheddar no matter what you do (even if you intentionally pick crappy spells... it's like arguing Shapechange isn't broken if you turn into humanoids -- the potential is still there and can be changed instantaneously). Not that finding a thing to spend TU charges on is a heresy, but DMM: Persist is simply the worst offender.

With what spells does DMM:Persist come anywhere close to Shapechange? Because i don't see it. Unless you massively boost your TU uses (which isn't possible in a core races/classes only game) it's merely okay, if that.

Most people i've seen use it to persist Mass Lesser Vigor and Divine Power.
The only thing the first does is free you from being the healbot. Banning it is similar to banning wands of CLW, or in other words a reason for people to not play clerics unless they enjoy being the walking hp dispenser that's not allowed to use his spells on anything else.
The second will give you +6 Str (enhancement bonus, so doesn't stack with a normal item) and full BAB. That makes you barely acceptable at melee, if that. A fighter with no feats. To "outfight the fighter" you'll need several feats or other sources of bonus damage. But you don't have feats because you spent them all on DMM:Persist and Extra Turning.

So which cleric spells would break the game if you persist one or two of them? Because i can't see the OP getting enough turning uses for more than 3, if that.

Maat Mons
2018-08-29, 05:02 PM
I'd be tempted to choose Clangeddin Silverbeard as my patron, and take the Strength and War domains. Or maybe choose Haela Brightaxe, and the Luck and War domains. War gives you the option of taking Holy Warrior at 9th level, for a +5 to damage that increases with level.

If you have the Strength domain, you have access to Enlarge Person, which could help with a tripping build. Although, if you don't have access to a wand of Enlarge Person, enlarging yourself in multiple battle will require use of your higher-level spell slots. For this type of character, your feats would probably be Combat Expertise, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), and Improved Trip. Then take Combat Reflexes at 9th level. You'd need a 13 in Intelligence and a decent Dexterity to pull this off though.

Haela could give you proficiency with the greatsword, which is a pretty good weapon. Power attack is a standard feat for two-handed-weapon users, and you can take Holy Warrior at 9th, as noted above. I'm not sure what to suggest for your other two starting feats though.