Goring OA

[Dimers]

Minotaurs (even revenant minotaurs) can get a solid opportunity attack, effectively usable at will, with the heroic-tier feat Opportunity Gore. That's a rather 'sticky' ability, since it knocks prone on a hit -- a much stronger effect than fighters' Combat Superiority. How far can that be leveraged for actual play?

Down sides:
It's not a MBA or a charge, so it doesn't trigger that huge swath of possible benefits.
It's not sticky enough by itself because it doesn't do anything about shifts or attacks that exclude you.
You can't apply weapon or implement benefits.

Up sides:
You can add push1 with another feat -- push1 and prone is a great combo!
In epic tier, you can also get a free MBA (though you'd need reach to benefit from both that and the push1).

Other thoughts:
Iron Soul monks can prevent shifts absolutely, no question.
There are a few cleric encounter attacks that can cause the target to provoke.
The dune trader theme's level 7/17/27 power is great for encouraging provocation too.
Rangers and warlocks can add their bonus striker damage; avengers can double-roll with Oath of Enmity.
An epic avenger with Halo of Warding can OA non-oath enemies that try to approach her.
Characters with Power Strike can take Flail Strike feat to knock enemies prone such that they provoke an OA for standing up.

[ScrivenerofDoom]

Prima facie, I always thought it looked quite useful but I've never seen it in play.

Has anyone used it or watched it being used?

[Yakk]

So the way to make this crazy would be to find a way to trigger it more often.

Most "as an opportunity attack" type abilities actually read "as an opportunity action you can make a MBA". And the ones that don't, well, they can be abused with normal MBA push/slide-cheese.

So I don't think it adds much that way.

In a sense, this is worse than hybrid warlock eldrich strike flail slide-to-prone (or similar avenger) builds that already exist? Except it uses race instead of a hybrid slot.

So the new stuff this gives us access to is (a) any-physical-ability-based, (b) doesn't use any of your class slots.

Avengers already have power of skill slide based OAs, and a flail to make their slides into prones isn't hard. So there isn't anything new there.

[Waddacku]

At first I thought this wasn't appealing at all for Fighters because of how easily they can already augment OAs, but Combat Superiority will shore up the accuracy even with a tertiary Wisdom score, and Iron Vanguard would add significant damage to it (especially if you grab the push, too). None of it is really stuff the Fighter can't already do, but it might let you do different weapons or ability scores.

The other thing is obviously Battleminds. I thought at first the minotaur would still feel dumb without Str because of Ferocity, but in Paragon Vicious Ferocity will actually make them really nice instead. Grab Forceful Reversal and never give your enemies a break again.
And yes, of course you could have just taken Melee Training. Doesn't seem as fun, though.

[Dimers]

So the new stuff this gives us access to is (a) any-physical-ability-based, (b) doesn't use any of your class slots.

And also you can use different weapons than a flail -- not that flails are bad, but there are plenty of reasons to use something else.


In a sense, this is worse than hybrid warlock eldrich strike flail slide-to-prone (or similar avenger) builds that already exist? Except it uses race instead of a hybrid slot.

Avengers already have power of skill slide based OAs, and a flail to make their slides into prones isn't hard. So there isn't anything new there.

Hmm, avenger and warlock. So, maybe more useful for a non-striker role? Especially since the striker would be better off putting resources into damage than into control. But there are no Dex-primary or Con-primary leaders and only one defender, and anyone who uses Strength already has a good MBA. The ability doesn't look spectacular on any class besides maybe battlemind.


Iron Vanguard would add significant damage to it (especially if you grab the push, too).

Ooooh, I hadn't thought of them. Imma write that one down. Do you know if there's ever been an official statement on whether prone+push makes the bonus damage trigger twice?


The other thing is obviously Battleminds. I thought at first the minotaur would still feel dumb without Str because of Ferocity, but in Paragon Vicious Ferocity will actually make them really nice instead. Grab Forceful Reversal and never give your enemies a break again.
And yes, of course you could have just taken Melee Training. Doesn't seem as fun, though.

Yeah, Battleminds' schtick seems to be "Not only am I a spectacular fighter, I'm also so skilled and fancy that your boyfriend will dump you to hook up with me after this battle." Tricksy and showy. Melee Training feat is flavorless, bland.