Old first-person, grid-based dungeon crawler RPGs

[Minty]

When I was a kid in the 90s, there used to be tons of these old-school first-person grid-based RPGs on PC, which seem to have mostly gone extinct now, except for the odd nostalgic title like Legend of Grimrock. I used to occasionally get the shareware versions on demo CDs on the front of PC magazines. The only one I can actually remember is Yendorian Tales: Tyrants of Thaine, but I never got round to actually playing the full version of any.

I was thinking of revisiting them with a DOS emulator, since most of them are abandonware by now. I seem to recall they were a bit light on plot and characters and anything else that wasn't dungeon grinding. Does anyone remember any that had good stories, memorable characters and NPC interactions, interesting worldbuilding, etc?

[Cespenar]

Okay, without going into grid-based vs. free roam distinction, off the top of my head:

Daggerfall, Arena
Might and Magic
Wizardry
Ultima Underworld
Stonekeep

Mind, I've tried only about half of those myself, but I've heard good things for them all. Still, personally they wouldn't satisfy me on the criteria that you listed. Maybe Daggerfall or Ultima Underworld would come the closest, but I'm not sure.

[factotum]

Apart from Stonekeep, pretty much none of that list is grid-based? They're just old RPGs.

@OP: Eye of the Beholder 2 is considered pretty darned good as these things go, give that one a try.

[Cespenar]

Apart from Stonekeep, pretty much none of that list is grid-based? They're just old RPGs.

Sure, though the OP seemed to put more emphasis on content rather than grids, so, a 3/4 on the OP's "old-school first-person grid-based RPGs" description seemed adequate to me. :smalltongue:

[Morty]

I think older Might & Magic and Wizardry games are grid-based, but I could be wrong. The ones I played weren't.

[TaRix]

I think older Might & Magic and Wizardry games are grid-based, but I could be wrong. The ones I played weren't.

About every Might and Magic before six (I think. Worlds of Xeen was the last) were grid-based. I'm fairly sure all the Wizardries are gridded as well, at least up to Gold (8?). Japanese spinoffs of Wizardry may or may not apply--a PS2 Wizardry was tile-based but allowed for slanty passages in places.

The dungeons in Ultima(1-5) were first-person based but fairly basic. I don't know about anything after six.

Steam just released the Bard's Tale Trilogy (II and III to be patched in later this year...) and it's a pretty good remake with a critical advantage that the originals didn't have--bug patches.
The soon-to-arrive Bard's Tale IV is tiled but not necessarily gridded.

Let's see... I saw a few PC titles (but never played) that are similar to Grimrock: Eye of the Beholder (1992-ish?) Some kind of Buck Rogers scenario (Probably Amiga, 1990 or so), and FTL's "Dungeon Master(?)" (magic? I dunno. You had four guys and put together spells with weird little scribblings.)

Isn't the last Might and Magic (X) tiled?

[Zevox]

If you have a (3)DS and aren't opposed to trying the Japanese, anime-ish version of this, it sounds like the sort of game that Atlus has published a fair few of in recent years. The entire Etrian Odyssey series, Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey, and Persona Q.

I haven't played any Etrian Odyssey myself, but Persona Q is great if you're familiar with Persona 3 and 4 (since it's a crossover of the casts of those two games). It may be fun even if you haven't played them, though you'll miss a lot of references. SMT: Strange Journey is largely a standard SMT plot, wit demons, a near-apocalypse going on, and the series' usual Law-versus-Chaos alignment system, but if you're not already familiar with SMT it'll probably be interesting.

[Winthur]

Play Might & Magic 3-5, they're still super playable and fun to this day. Actually really addictive. I got into those only like 3 years ago and they're the best entry-level game to start digging through retro blobbers.

[Aeson]

Does Myst count?

[factotum]

Isn't the last Might and Magic (X) tiled?

It was, yes--it was one of the main complaints people had about it, to be honest, because it felt like a retrogade step considering the previous four Might and Magic games were all free 3D movement. Having said that, it's a perfectly playable game and is definitely worth a try if the OP has never played it before.

[danzibr]

Phantasy Star, Shining in the Darkness.

[Cespenar]

It was, yes--it was one of the main complaints people had about it, to be honest, because it felt like a retrogade step considering the previous four Might and Magic games were all free 3D movement. Having said that, it's a perfectly playable game and is definitely worth a try if the OP has never played it before.

Is it really any good? I've heard it bashed to hell and back on the nets, so never thought to touch it despite having loved 6-7 to bits.

[Rodin]

Is it really any good? I've heard it bashed to hell and back on the nets, so never thought to touch it despite having loved 6-7 to bits.

From what I recall, it got bashed for being buggy as hell. It's possible that fans came back in and did unofficial patches later, but I don't really know if it was just bugs or whether the gameplay was poor as well.

Another oldschool suggestion - Anvil of Dawn.

[Maelstrom]

Wizardry I - III (Proving Grounds of a Mad Overlord, The Knight of Diamonds, Legacy of Llylgamyn) were all grid based and the games I cut my teeth on back on my first 'rig' ever, a PCjr. They're obviously still favorites of mine, holding a special place in my memory. The iV and V games I think are also grid based, but I never got to play those (school became an actual thing, as well as social activities). VI and on broke into the newer models and though I liked the concepts, they stick out in my mind less.

[factotum]

From what I recall, it got bashed for being buggy as hell. It's possible that fans came back in and did unofficial patches later, but I don't really know if it was just bugs or whether the gameplay was poor as well.

Like I said, I think most of the bashing was because it felt like a more primitive game than its forebears. If you ignored that and just played it for what it was, it was entertaining enough to be worth it.

[Gnoman]

Wizardry I - III (Proving Grounds of a Mad Overlord, The Knight of Diamonds, Legacy of Llylgamyn) were all grid based and the games I cut my teeth on back on my first 'rig' ever, a PCjr. They're obviously still favorites of mine, holding a special place in my memory. The iV and V games I think are also grid based, but I never got to play those (school became an actual thing, as well as social activities). VI and on broke into the newer models and though I liked the concepts, they stick out in my mind less.

I think you're mixing up series a bit. Wizardry remained grid based for pretty much the entire run. It was Might and Magic that retooled to free-roam in game VI (M&M also retooled heavily with III, but remained grid based).

[Maelstrom]

I think you're mixing up series a bit. Wizardry remained grid based for pretty much the entire run. It was Might and Magic that retooled to free-roam in game VI (M&M also retooled heavily with III, but remained grid based).

Yup, merged a few games together... Wizardry 8 was the only one that went to the free roam model.

[Lacco]

I second Eye of the Beholder 2. If only for the wonderful shot of Waterdeep in the introduction... music, atmosphere... it's one of the few games I return to all the time.

Another suggestion would be Betrayal at Krondor. Lots of worldbuilding... lots of good dialogues... and Navon du Sandau.

[halfeye]

Back in the day, on the Atari ST there was Dungeon Master, Chaos Strikes Back, and was Captive that type? I think so, though with an SF setting rather than Dungeons.

[Winthur]

I think you're mixing up series a bit. Wizardry remained grid based for pretty much the entire run. It was Might and Magic that retooled to free-roam in game VI (M&M also retooled heavily with III, but remained grid based).
Though if you read his post in a certain way, there are quite a few changes to the Wizardry series around the 5th game. 6-7-8 has quite a bit more focus on open-world exploration and also the director at the time was D.W. Bradley, and the "Bradley design" is very distinguishable from the original Wiz 1-3 design among hardcore Wizardry fans. Even Wiz5 has some of his touch, though not nearly as radical.

[Gnoman]

Though if you read his post in a certain way, there are quite a few changes to the Wizardry series around the 5th game. 6-7-8 has quite a bit more focus on open-world exploration and also the director at the time was D.W. Bradley, and the "Bradley design" is very distinguishable from the original Wiz 1-3 design among hardcore Wizardry fans. Even Wiz5 has some of his touch, though not nearly as radical.

Certainly. I was just focusing on the "grid based" vs "free roam" design.


On the general subject, anyone wanting to play M&M 1 or 2 should strongly consider the Mac versions. The interface was much better.

[Winthur]

On the general subject, anyone wanting to play M&M 1 or 2 should strongly consider the Mac versions. The interface was much better.
M&M1 on the NES is also decent mostly due to ease of mapping, but you will not be able to transfer your save game to the next game, and M&M2 starts off pretty brutal if you don't port your party from M&M1. You can still beat it of course, but fresh M&M2 party generally is somewhat forced to grind in the early game, porting your winning party from the previous game erases this problem.
Also, M&M3-5 on Mac is also cleaner and better looking, with a nicer interface, but I played my GoG copies with no problems and I got the hang of these in a few minutes.
MM4-5 is also very notable because of the original idea to merge two games if you have them installed together, which allows you to hop between worlds of 4 and 5 at will and do quests here and there, and installing the two games into a single "World of Xeen" install lets you see the true, combined ending of both games. It's kinda like a proto-Tale of Two Wastelands for the Bethesda Fallout games.

[LibraryOgre]

There was also Dungeon Hack.

[Triaxx]

Make sure to check GOG for the games, besides being legal, but most of the emulation is already done.

[TaRix]

Oh, if we're including consoles, I remember a couple from the NES days: "Dungeon Magic" with an even more incomprehensible magic system and real-time grid fighting, and "Swords and Serpents" complete with actual dungeon, party, and riddles.

[Triaxx]

I remember Dungeon Magic. It used to make me physically ill until I set the TV I was playing on to Black and White mode.