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View Full Version : DM Help Help creating African inspired setting, kingdoms and empires.



Suttle
2018-08-28, 09:16 AM
So my players were responsible for many changes and wars in the Europe and Asian based countries of my setting.

They decided to flee to the lands of the south in order to secure some trading and merchant routes for their new founded merchant guilds.

The big problem is that i never learned about Africa's cultures and civilizations in school and my knowledge is almost zero. :smallannoyed:

After reading a little about it on the net I'm having some dieas, I would like to hear your views on them, if they are good or rude.

Based on the northern African civilizations I'm going to have two nations one based on Egypt with necromancers and powerful solar magic. They will have a Golden and blue aestetic. Gold for the sun and blue for the river.

And the other based on Carthaginian culture, powerful merchants and investors with war elephants. They will have a grey and purple aesthetic. Grey because elephants and purple because of wealth.

To the east we have an Ethiopian based civilization who is famous for kicking invaders out and selling a strong and delicious drink. It will be called the dark kingdom and their people will have a dark green and black aesthetic. Green because that's the official color of this civilization and black because of coffee.

To the west we have a big empire based on the empire of Ghana and Mali, their buildings are built on red rocks and they have lots and lots of salt and gold mines.

The golden empire wears green and gold.

The salt empire wears mostly white.

The other empire is an empire ruled by sorceress who have huge diamond mines and wear very dark blue.

The last empire who has a red aestetic and is based on the Songhai, an emprie of metal workers, precious stones and sorcerer warriors.

To the south we have a warrior nation based on the Zulu.

So... Is there any other interesting African civilization I'm missing? Are the nations created good enough? Am I being rude or miss representative?

Thanks for your help.

Kaptin Keen
2018-08-28, 10:05 AM
I believe there are near-countless african cultures (technically not countless, you could propably list them all somehow, given time and effort). Pygmy tribes are fun. There are no desert people on your list, no migrant peoples, no coastal fishermen, and you might deviate from historical africa to create tribes living among the treetops, volcano worshipping (and controlling) shamans, lion or gorilla riders, river bottom villages guarded by tame crocodiles, um ... and so on, I guess.

There also seems to only be human inhabitants.

Suttle
2018-08-28, 10:11 AM
I believe there are near-countless african cultures (technically not countless, you could propably list them all somehow, given time and effort). Pygmy tribes are fun. There are no desert people on your list, no migrant peoples, no coastal fishermen, and you might deviate from historical africa to create tribes living among the treetops, volcano worshipping (and controlling) shamans, lion or gorilla riders, river bottom villages guarded by tame crocodiles, um ... and so on, I guess.

There also seems to only be human inhabitants.

Yeah I'm trying to avoid the whole "tribal" culture stereotype, Zulus are the closest I plan to have of it.

Since their reason for going to the southern continent is comercial I see no point in having them interact with "tribes", warriors, shamans, volcano worshipers and animal controling mages.

I want powerful and interesting nations and cities since most of the gorup are tired of exploring european inspired settings and cities.

I want interesting African comercial cities and cultural centers to help me get inspired.

BWR
2018-08-28, 10:26 AM
You might find this thread (https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?637663-african-dnd-d20-resources) useful.

Thrudd
2018-08-28, 10:50 AM
How about Numidia, kingdom founded by nomadic mercenaries of the desert, expert cavalry.

Kaptin Keen
2018-08-28, 01:14 PM
Yeah I'm trying to avoid the whole "tribal" culture stereotype, Zulus are the closest I plan to have of it.

Since their reason for going to the southern continent is comercial I see no point in having them interact with "tribes", warriors, shamans, volcano worshipers and animal controling mages.

I want powerful and interesting nations and cities since most of the gorup are tired of exploring european inspired settings and cities.

I want interesting African comercial cities and cultural centers to help me get inspired.

None of those things are in any conceivable way mutually exclusive. But your game, your choice.

gkathellar
2018-08-28, 01:49 PM
One thing to bear in mind is that Africa is a really big place. How big is it? It's a fifth of the world's land area, and is close to three times the size of Europe. Its biomes are numerous and distinct, with climates that run nearly the entire gamut of non-arctic types. Since long before the river-valley civilizations that are often marked as the first large-scale societies (one of which was on the Nile, of course), virtually all of the continent has been inhabited.

My point is that you're going to have to narrow your focus, or at least start thinking in terms of broad linguistic/ethnic groups as you search for inspiration. Personally, I would try to get away from the Egyptians and other Carthaginians - who while fascinating in their own right (especially when you get past the Helenization), also get a lot of attention already - and look instead towards the wealthy and powerful kingdoms of West Africa, in particular the Mali Empire (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mali_Empire). The Maghreb (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maghreb) is another good source of inspiration, and if you're looking to move further south, the lands of the Igbo people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igboland) and the historical kingdom of Kongo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Kongo) are very well documented and are a primary influence the modern Afro-Caribbean diaspora.

Suttle
2018-08-28, 03:05 PM
None of those things are in any conceivable way mutually exclusive. But your game, your choice.

I know it's just that I'm looking less for this:
http://farrellworldcultures.karnscity.wikispaces.net/file/view/zulu-warriors.jpg/196196660/385x258/zulu-warriors.jpg

And more of this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/25/e5/21/25e521e8ac943c8aded5d713f4a9dd5f.jpg
https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/007/862/348/large/gilles-beloeil-ace-ev-gizah-port-sacre-gbeloeil.jpg?1508984952
https://img00.deviantart.net/1dd2/i/2010/045/a/b/ancient_africa_5_by_byzantinum.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BHozoRgHFGo/hqdefault.jpg
https://swahilicoastghana.weebly.com/uploads/2/4/7/8/24783650/4969767_orig.jpg
https://nails.newsela.com/s3/newsela-media/article_media/2016/06/BHP-7-1-Ghana-2c523910.png?crop=0%2C50%2C1366%2C819&height=498&width=885
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Empire_Ghana-3.jpg
http://mrssimmons6thss2016-2017.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/1/1/23118740/722987728_orig.jpg
https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/a-taste-of-ancient-africa-south-of-egypt-25-638.jpg
https://www.africa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/empires-mali-empire.jpg
https://cdn.thinglink.me/api/image/845707536265904128/1240/10/scaletowidth
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d9/17/cb/d917cbfb0a3c404755166894a02f6ded.jpg
http://sudanembassyke.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/image006.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/29/12/e5/2912e5e54f7db2a16738f93806fd470e.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wdk3Y-FCcmw/WKQM6_rlVPI/AAAAAAAAdWU/cS3ta5J6Omk0XrRgk1Z2XHbqSp7ePoPAwCLcB/s1600/songhai.jpg
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Ff54e356e-8725-11e7-9f10-c918952dd8f2.jpg?crop=1500%2C844%2C0%2C78&resize=685
https://www.farhorizons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Naga-row-of-rams.jpg
http://www.bcarchaeology.com/Images/01-Meroe-pyramids_lrg.jpg
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/africa/images/songhai-empire-image1.jpg
https://study.com/cimages/multimages/16/180px-greatmosque.jpg
https://images.tandf.co.uk/common/jackets/amazon/978113891/9781138913462.jpg
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/sonni-ali.jpg
https://hanesydd.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/timuktusankore01.jpg
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ouadane-ghana-2.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjzKvwsUoAA6GQt.jpg
http://solarey.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Ancient-Ghana-Empire-05.jpg
http://en.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/01/kankan-moussa-3.jpg

Nifft
2018-08-28, 03:23 PM
I know very little about Africa, but I remember having a favorable impression of Nyambe, which purports to be a mythical African RPG setting.

Resileaf
2018-08-28, 03:27 PM
How about a dwarven kingdom where they built their own mountains (pyramids) because they couldn't adapt to the desert sun?

Avista
2018-08-28, 04:44 PM
When you mentioned Africa, it reminds me of this video on YouTube. I can't post video links yet, but you can use this key to find them: Jk3iOqKOD7g

It also helps kick the stereotype tribes you wanted to avoid.

Mutazoia
2018-08-28, 08:11 PM
How about finding a copy of the old Maztica Campaign setting (https://www.google.com/search?q=maztica+campaign+set&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS758US758&oq=maztica&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.3944j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) for forgotten realms and calling it a day....(maybe just not buy it from Amazon.)

Suttle
2018-08-28, 10:01 PM
How about finding a copy of the old Maztica Campaign setting (https://www.google.com/search?q=maztica+campaign+set&rlz=1C1CHZL_enUS758US758&oq=maztica&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l5.3944j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8) for forgotten realms and calling it a day....(maybe just not buy it from Amazon.)

Isn't that a Mayan and mesoamerican setting?

What does it have to do with Africa?

Kaptin Keen
2018-08-29, 12:58 AM
I know it's just that I'm looking less for this:
http://farrellworldcultures.karnscity.wikispaces.net/file/view/zulu-warriors.jpg/196196660/385x258/zulu-warriors.jpg

And more of this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/25/e5/21/25e521e8ac943c8aded5d713f4a9dd5f.jpg
https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/007/862/348/large/gilles-beloeil-ace-ev-gizah-port-sacre-gbeloeil.jpg?1508984952
https://img00.deviantart.net/1dd2/i/2010/045/a/b/ancient_africa_5_by_byzantinum.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BHozoRgHFGo/hqdefault.jpg
https://swahilicoastghana.weebly.com/uploads/2/4/7/8/24783650/4969767_orig.jpg
https://nails.newsela.com/s3/newsela-media/article_media/2016/06/BHP-7-1-Ghana-2c523910.png?crop=0%2C50%2C1366%2C819&height=498&width=885
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Empire_Ghana-3.jpg
http://mrssimmons6thss2016-2017.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/1/1/23118740/722987728_orig.jpg
https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/a-taste-of-ancient-africa-south-of-egypt-25-638.jpg
https://www.africa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/empires-mali-empire.jpg
https://cdn.thinglink.me/api/image/845707536265904128/1240/10/scaletowidth
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d9/17/cb/d917cbfb0a3c404755166894a02f6ded.jpg
http://sudanembassyke.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/image006.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/29/12/e5/2912e5e54f7db2a16738f93806fd470e.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wdk3Y-FCcmw/WKQM6_rlVPI/AAAAAAAAdWU/cS3ta5J6Omk0XrRgk1Z2XHbqSp7ePoPAwCLcB/s1600/songhai.jpg
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Ff54e356e-8725-11e7-9f10-c918952dd8f2.jpg?crop=1500%2C844%2C0%2C78&resize=685
https://www.farhorizons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Naga-row-of-rams.jpg
http://www.bcarchaeology.com/Images/01-Meroe-pyramids_lrg.jpg
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/africa/images/songhai-empire-image1.jpg
https://study.com/cimages/multimages/16/180px-greatmosque.jpg
https://images.tandf.co.uk/common/jackets/amazon/978113891/9781138913462.jpg
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/sonni-ali.jpg
https://hanesydd.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/timuktusankore01.jpg
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ouadane-ghana-2.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjzKvwsUoAA6GQt.jpg
http://solarey.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Ancient-Ghana-Empire-05.jpg
http://en.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/01/kankan-moussa-3.jpg

And I'm trying to tell you there's literally no reason pygmies, or shamans, or volcano worshippers - or whatever - couldn't have a highly succesful culture.

To me, it feels like you're trying to make western europe, only with african props. At no point at all did I state 'primitives'. In fact, if you were to ask me, I'd say I tried for culturally different. Also, if you're making an entire continent that contains nothing but rival commercial factions, that might be a tad one sided. But ... your game.

Avista
2018-08-29, 02:27 AM
I'd say you're really going to lose out on cutting off tribal groups, especially if the reason is that it's 'stereotypical' Africa. African environment isn't stable in some parts, so establishing a city was counter-productive when resources were always shifting. These groups developed tribes to coexist with nature's constant changes, giving them the freedom of movement that cities lack. If a drought hit an area, tribes could get up and leave. Cities can't do that.

If I may suggest, have your tribal groups resemble druids. They could coexist with nature and thrive in the wilds. If you need an economic element, these people could be doctors or hunters who gather the most exotic and rarest ingredients from depths of the jungle.

Edit: I just had an idea. How about a tribal group that overtook a city by patiently waiting out and depleting their resources? Then they live in the ruins every handful of months while they remain on the move.

Xuc Xac
2018-08-29, 09:41 AM
I'd say you're really going to lose out on cutting off tribal groups, especially if the reason is that it's 'stereotypical' Africa. African environment isn't stable in some parts, so establishing a city was counter-productive when resources were always shifting. These groups developed tribes to coexist with nature's constant changes, giving them the freedom of movement that cities lack. If a drought hit an area, tribes could get up and leave. Cities can't do that.

Those aren't "tribes". You're taking about "nomads". There are many settled tribes.


Isn't that a Mayan and mesoamerican setting?

What does it have to do with Africa?

Why does anything have to be Africa? The OP's only reason for basing the area on Africa is that it's South of the area based on Europe. There's no reason it couldn't be based on South America or even just more Europe. You could base the southern continent on Iceland if you wanted to. You could have vikings in cool silk instead of warm fur clothes in the southern regions.


How about a dwarven kingdom where they built their own mountains (pyramids) because they couldn't adapt to the desert sun?

This is a cool idea and also draws attention to the fact that this isn't the real world. Medieval Europe didn't have elves, dwarves, or lizard people, but we'll happily put them in game settings. The real Africa didn't have them either, but in a world where those races exist, they should also be on that southern continent. If humans can be vikings, Zulu, druids, or Venetian merchant princes, there's no reason for every dwarf to be a viking. Instead of wearing viking helmets and swilling mead and ale, why not have dwarves in turbans getting super wired on strong coffee and hookah smoke while arguing about philosophy and politics in their sultanate?


The golden empire wears green and gold.

The salt empire wears mostly white.

The other empire is an empire ruled by sorceress who have huge diamond mines and wear very dark blue.

The last empire who has a red aestetic and is based on the Songhai, an emprie of metal workers, precious stones and sorcerer warriors.

That's a lot of "empires". Empire isn't just a word for a big kingdom. Empires are, by definition, diverse. The French Empire was an empire because it wasn't all French: the emperor was French but his subjects were French and literally hundreds of other ethnic groups with their own languages and cultures in Asia, Africa, and the Americas. Indochina alone had about a hundred ethnic groups.

Actual Romans made up a tiny fraction of the Roman Empire. The population of the British Empire was overwhelmingly Asian. The Austro-Hungarian Empire was made up of Austrian kingdoms, the kingdom of Hungary, Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia, and more. The fact that those pieces are all separate countries today makes it clear that they have their own identities.

If your Ghana Empire is just a million Ghanaians living in a big territory under one monarch, that's a kingdom (or duchy, principality, or whatever they want to call it based on the monarch's title). To be a Ghanaian Empire, you need a Ghanaian monarch and ruling class in control of territories and peoples who aren't Ghanaian.

When a bunch of different nations/tribes/countries agree to work together as a team under one authority, it's a federation (strong central authority) or confederation (weaker central authority with more power left to the members) like the United States, present day Germany, or Russia. The Iroquois were a confederation of six nations formed by the Peacemaker. If the Peacemaker simply conquered the Iriquois and led all six nations as their single chief, the Iriquois Confederation would have been the Mohawk Empire.

Of course, some kingdoms call themselves empires when they aren't just because it sounds more impressive. For example, the former Korean Empire only consisted of Korean people living on the Korean peninsula and were really a kingdom, but they wanted to appear equal to the Empire of Japan (which was a real empire that controlled many different parts of the Asian mainland and many pacific island territories).

If you keep this in mind, empires have a lot more depth. Mordor was an empire and battles were a lot more interesting in the "Lord of the Rings" because of it. An army of goblins, wargs, orcs, uruk-hai, and Easterling men with Oliphants is a lot more interesting than just thousands of goblins. If you look at the movies, you can see that the art director and costume designers made several different tribes of orcs and goblins with their own distinctive styles of weapons and armor.

Yora
2018-08-29, 10:29 AM
Spears of the Dawn is a nice little game set in a region consisting of five African inspired nations that are each quite different. It also has a good GM section that specifically goes into running an African fantasy campaign for people who don't really know much about premodern Africa.

The Jack
2018-08-29, 12:27 PM
http://mrssimmons6thss2016-2017.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/1/1/23118740/722987728_orig.jpg


Alright, pictures like this really interests me.
Because It sure looks like a fort or a castle


But it also looks like a climbing frame if you know what I mean. I realise those things are rather far apart and aren't the easiest things to climb, but the thought is still there.

Corsair14
2018-08-29, 02:18 PM
Check out Al quadim, no need to re-invent the wheel. Its a really cool setting in the land of genies, corsairs, and sultans. Mazteca is another premade thats pretty useful.

Samzat
2018-08-29, 04:35 PM
Even if you are trying to avoid tribal cultures, you might consider the addition of a Berber-esque culture of camel and horse nomads, who often form a very important lifeline of trade in the deserts.

Arbane
2018-08-29, 05:10 PM
Check out Al quadim, no need to re-invent the wheel. Its a really cool setting in the land of genies, corsairs, and sultans. Mazteca is another premade thats pretty useful.

Al-Quadim is more Fantasy Arabia, not quite the same thing. (And just as common as Fantasy Egypt. I think OP wants something a bit more unusual.)

IIRC, the new edition of 7th Sea has Lands of Gold and Fire, a good sourcebook for their Fantasy Africa, with a wide range of societies, legends, and other weirdness.

There's a OSR (B/X D&D retread) game called Spears of the Dawn, which might be worth checking out, it's gotten good reviews.

Also, Nyambe, but I don't know much about it.

Mutazoia
2018-08-30, 09:49 PM
Isn't that a Mayan and mesoamerican setting?

What does it have to do with Africa?

The reference photo(s) you gave for what you are looking for, were primarily Egyptian, which shares a lot of cultural aspects with the Myan and mesoamericans. They are pretty much twin civilizations, give or take a few talking points.

But methinks you may be wanting more southern mediterranean/middle eastern than African, which is more primitive and tribal than a more Egyptian based civilization would be. Thus the suggestion of Maztica.

Arbane
2018-08-31, 10:23 AM
The reference photo(s) you gave for what you are looking for, were primarily Egyptian, which shares a lot of cultural aspects with the Myan and mesoamericans. They are pretty much twin civilizations, give or take a few talking points.

What's that sound I hear, kinda like historians bursting into flame from SHEER RAGE?

Must be the neighbor's dog.

Kaptin Keen
2018-08-31, 10:26 AM
What's that sound I hear, kinda like historians bursting into flame from SHEER RAGE?

Must be the neighbor's dog.

Whaddaya mean?? They both have pyramids = essentially the same! =D

Cealocanth
2018-08-31, 03:50 PM
I would recommend you look into the precolonial Nigerian culture to add to your groups. No, they didn't build grand monuments and sprawling empires, but they had a strong culture, a very in-depth religion, a strong trading society, a surprisingly good system of government, a very rigid class structure based on meritocracy and personal wealth, and a thriving cattle and yam-based agrarian economy. It could be an interesting stop for the party, at least, to find a place where they have to forego their gold and silver pieces for trading in favors, land, cattle, blood, marriages, kola nuts, and yams.

I would also recommend something based on the Kongoese culture. These tribes were distinct and varied based on where they lived, but this area had an extremely strong governmental system and a thriving economy based on gold, ivory, gemstones, warfare, and slaves. They actually were known to build impressive grave monuments of important people, and even had entire cities and societies build into the jungle and on raised platforms in the trees. These people could be your Southern equivalent of elves, with strange naturalistic religion, sprawling cities built into the jungles themselves, and political intrigue so thick you could spread it on your toast. Seriously, until they became a vassal of Portugal, the Kingdom of Kongo was as backstabbing and complicated politically as Medicci France.

Kami2awa
2018-08-31, 04:01 PM
I know it's just that I'm looking less for this:
http://farrellworldcultures.karnscity.wikispaces.net/file/view/zulu-warriors.jpg/196196660/385x258/zulu-warriors.jpg

And more of this:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/25/e5/21/25e521e8ac943c8aded5d713f4a9dd5f.jpg
https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/007/862/348/large/gilles-beloeil-ace-ev-gizah-port-sacre-gbeloeil.jpg?1508984952
https://img00.deviantart.net/1dd2/i/2010/045/a/b/ancient_africa_5_by_byzantinum.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BHozoRgHFGo/hqdefault.jpg
https://swahilicoastghana.weebly.com/uploads/2/4/7/8/24783650/4969767_orig.jpg
https://nails.newsela.com/s3/newsela-media/article_media/2016/06/BHP-7-1-Ghana-2c523910.png?crop=0%2C50%2C1366%2C819&height=498&width=885
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Empire_Ghana-3.jpg
http://mrssimmons6thss2016-2017.weebly.com/uploads/2/3/1/1/23118740/722987728_orig.jpg
https://weaponsandwarfare.files.wordpress.com/2016/05/a-taste-of-ancient-africa-south-of-egypt-25-638.jpg
https://www.africa.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/empires-mali-empire.jpg
https://cdn.thinglink.me/api/image/845707536265904128/1240/10/scaletowidth
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d9/17/cb/d917cbfb0a3c404755166894a02f6ded.jpg
http://sudanembassyke.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/image006.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/29/12/e5/2912e5e54f7db2a16738f93806fd470e.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-wdk3Y-FCcmw/WKQM6_rlVPI/AAAAAAAAdWU/cS3ta5J6Omk0XrRgk1Z2XHbqSp7ePoPAwCLcB/s1600/songhai.jpg
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/imageserver/image/methode%2Ftimes%2Fprod%2Fweb%2Fbin%2Ff54e356e-8725-11e7-9f10-c918952dd8f2.jpg?crop=1500%2C844%2C0%2C78&resize=685
https://www.farhorizons.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Naga-row-of-rams.jpg
http://www.bcarchaeology.com/Images/01-Meroe-pyramids_lrg.jpg
https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/africa/images/songhai-empire-image1.jpg
https://study.com/cimages/multimages/16/180px-greatmosque.jpg
https://images.tandf.co.uk/common/jackets/amazon/978113891/9781138913462.jpg
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/sonni-ali.jpg
https://hanesydd.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/timuktusankore01.jpg
http://www.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/ouadane-ghana-2.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjzKvwsUoAA6GQt.jpg
http://solarey.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Ancient-Ghana-Empire-05.jpg
http://en.lisapoyakama.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2018/01/kankan-moussa-3.jpg

Great images! Tbh, the sources for those will probably give you far more inspiration than you'll ever need.

Also, while it might be realistic to have dozens of civilisations in a huge continent, the PCs will be limited in how many they can interact with. It might be better to develop half a dozen in detail rather than 20 in less detail.

awa
2018-08-31, 04:55 PM
The reference photo(s) you gave for what you are looking for, were primarily Egyptian, which shares a lot of cultural aspects with the Myan and mesoamericans. They are pretty much twin civilizations, give or take a few talking points.

But methinks you may be wanting more southern mediterranean/middle eastern than African, which is more primitive and tribal than a more Egyptian based civilization would be. Thus the suggestion of Maztica.

Im having a hard time thinking of any significant similarities between Egypt and Aztec

also the other part is wrong as well.

Also maztcia is all about white people conquering the aztec so also not a good fit.

Mutazoia
2018-08-31, 10:54 PM
What's that sound I hear, kinda like historians bursting into flame from SHEER RAGE?

Must be the neighbor's dog.

What do historians have to do with what is essentially a job for cultural anthropologists?

I was going to type out a reply, but I'm feeling lazy so I'll just link an article or two....

Like this one (https://writemyessaynow.net/essays/compare-contrast-ancient-egyptian-mayan-civilisations/)
Or this one (https://classroom.synonym.com/ancient-egyptian-vs-mayan-culture-21883.html)

Yes, there are a lot of differences as well, given two disparate climates (bother literal and geo-political), but they are similar enough at the core as to be able to serve as a backbone for fleshing out a society based on one or the other.


Im having a hard time thinking of any significant similarities between Egypt and Aztec

See above.


also the other part is wrong as well

Which part? The part about not wanting a Zulu type tribal civilization, but a more Egyptian one, when the photos listed for reference implied just that?


Also maztcia is all about white people conquering the aztec so also not a good fit.

Maztica is a campaign setting. If it's about anything, it's about that section of the world, and provides information about said area. It does not force you to play "Conquistador". What you do with it in your campaign is entirely up to you. You could just as easily run a campaign where all the players are natives, as you could a "conquistador" style campaign.

Besides, we can infer from the OP, that his players are "white people" heading down to "Africa". I assume, giving that these are probably your average D&D players, that they will not be down there as simple tourists....I expect quite a lot of "conquering" and such to be going on, regardless of what part of the world they just wandered into.

awa
2018-08-31, 11:36 PM
What do historians have to do with what is essentially a job for cultural anthropologists?

I was going to type out a reply, but I'm feeling lazy so I'll just link an article or two....

Like this one (https://writemyessaynow.net/essays/compare-contrast-ancient-egyptian-mayan-civilisations/)
Or this one (https://classroom.synonym.com/ancient-egyptian-vs-mayan-culture-21883.html)

Yes, there are a lot of differences as well, given two disparate climates (bother literal and geo-political), but they are similar enough at the core as to be able to serve as a backbone for fleshing out a society based on one or the other.



See above.



Which part? The part about not wanting a Zulu type tribal civilization, but a more Egyptian one, when the photos listed for reference implied just that?



Maztica is a campaign setting. If it's about anything, it's about that section of the world, and provides information about said area. It does not force you to play "Conquistador". What you do with it in your campaign is entirely up to you. You could just as easily run a campaign where all the players are natives, as you could a "conquistador" style campaign.

Besides, we can infer from the OP, that his players are "white people" heading down to "Africa". I assume, giving that these are probably your average D&D players, that they will not be down there as simple tourists....I expect quite a lot of "conquering" and such to be going on, regardless of what part of the world they just wandered into.


the things listed in that article are incredible superficial for the most part, polytheistic gods, calendars, big buildings, some isolation. (I only bothered looking at one link)

The differences between these groups vastly exceed the similarities
first jungle rather than desert, no metal weapons or armor, few domestic animals, religion includes cannibalism, strong sense of impermanence, lesser central authority, city states etc. Egypt might be isolated but its still exposed to numerous other African Mediterranean and middle eastern nations and would have trade with them. This is all just off the top of my head im certain even a casual glance at Wikipedia could find a ton more.

the images he showed were not just Egypt but other African empires/kingdoms as well though i don't know enough to identify them myself (other then Ghana Mali and Songhai which are named in the image)

maztecia is post conquistador mesoamerica having already been saved by the good and neutral aligned white people by freeing them from their evil god who was actively harming his own worshipers because he was evil for the sake of evil (setting might be just a tiny bit racist).

he asked for Africa why try and give him something other than Africa.

Epimethee
2018-09-01, 01:01 AM
The other link is some writemyessai commercial. And that does not make me want to do business with them.

Also I was looking for some view of the city of Kerma, a Nubian place where Egyptians power would meet with some influences from the center of Africa. I only found this one, great but not the most explicit to show this fact. I have seen some other plans with more rounded houses, something unusual in Egyptian context. Only one is clearly visible here but notice also the granaries in the foreground.

http://jeanclaudegolvin.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/egypte-karnak-kerma-jc-golvin.jpg

The picture is taken from the site of the great illustrator Jean-Claude Golvin (http://jeanclaudegolvin.com/en/project/egypt/), that I warmly recommend you to look at. He specialize in painting of cities and monuments from prehistory to modern time (so XVII century). Sadly only the most classical civilization are represented, but that's still a huge ressource and you will of course find plenty of Egyptian material.


A free ressource that I found quite useful (albeit a bit dated today) is the General History of Africa (http://www.unesco.org/new/en/social-and-human-sciences/themes/general-history-of-africa/volumes/complete-edition/volume-ii-ancient-civilizations-of-africa/#c181021), published by UNESCO, particularly the volume II about ancient civilisations.
It was written a few years ago but it offer still a synthetic view of the history of the continent.


Also I totally agree with Cealocanth. I know the buildings are often the best way to represent a civilisation but that's not always the most interesting way to look at it.
Also tribal is really an empty word: in the most literal sense of the term, Athen was a collection of tribes, the Deme, like the Leontis the Erechtheis or the Antiochis.

Then another thing to keep in mind is that a civilization tend to use its environnement. So for example the senegambian houses you showed us are in mud bricks, like the Great Mosquée of Djenne. Widely available in this region, it is still very fragile tot he rain and every form of erosion. Houses are constantly rebuild and the traces of ancient habitations are hard to find for archeologists. In only a few years all traces may disappear.
The most ancient buildings are the mosquee but they are sometimes hard for scientifics to document, out of respect for the local population who should agree to that kind of investigation before it is conducted.

Still archeologist found some very interesting places. The cities were before islam and the age of the big empires not as fixed in one place than their European or asian counterparts.
Imagine a kind of nucleus, often based around a specific activity or a specific, let's call it tribe, and then some secondary implantations around, sometimes another settlement but also to perform a task.
Some activities, like metal works, were systematically outside of the center. Relatively easy to discover compared to an house, due to the residue of the forge, they are moving relatively quickly, every few years or so. The habitations would also move. Every few generations the entire complex, including the nucleus, would be totally differently disposed.

The exact reasons behind those move are still unclear. At the very least it is a complex use of space, at most it point to a startling degree of social organization even if the traces are mostly erased.

Chauncymancer
2018-09-01, 02:50 PM
The Grammarians make a perfect "dead dungeon building civilization". They're the people who made the Sahara a desert by digging too deep and depleting the planets life energy.